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janisahockeynut

[Proposal/Discussion] Targetting Picks

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Here is my daily proposal/discussion

 

Just went through the NHL teams, looking for a young RHD for us...…….nothing jumped out that we could easily do a lateral trade

 

 

But what did jump out at me was that NJ really needs some forwards, at pretty much every position, they have no mid level wingers...……….so I think there is opportunity there for a trade, involving their very nice 2019 2nd...….

 

Trade #1.

 

Baertschi + 2020-3rd...……..for...……….New Jersey's  2019 2nd (34th OA)

 

Take a look at Buffalo and they have 2 UFA wingers in Skinner and Pominville, and are also looking thin at LHD, and although there is no way we are replacing Skinner, replacing Pominville, and or the LHD should be something we look at...…..

 

Trade #2

 

Tanev + Leivo...………..for...………….Buffalo's from San Jose 2019 1st (26th OA?)

 

Here are my reason's for thinking these are moves we can make, and will benefit for making them...………..first off we reduce our cap by approximately 9 Million. Secondly, we have the an abundance of Left Wingers, and Pearson, looks to have solidified his position as Horvat's LWer, at least for now. And Baertschi days are numbered here, as Benning has said he would like to up grade his #1 Left Wing, and his starting RHD. I also have the belief that Schenn has done a great job, and should be rewarded as a 3rd pairing Dman, allowing us to move Tanev.

 

Along with an earlier proposed trade, of Virtanen for LA's Toffolli (RWer for BO)., we would be a much more solid team, with a late 1st and early 2nd, we would have a much better time of picking up some very good depth players and maybe a starter or 2 if we are lucky...…….

 

I would suggest walking into the 2019 Entry Draft with...……….

 

Vancouver's 2019 1st-10th OA

San Jose's 2019 1st-25th OA

New Jersey's 2019 2nd - 34th OA

               and our own

Vancouver's 2019 2nd-40th OA

 

That is a great group of picks for work with

 

At the end of the day, we fill in our holes on LW, RW, and LHD and still have players to play behind these guys in depth roles......and keep our cap in a better controlled place...………..and look like this...…………..

 

Ferland                      Pettersson                      Boeser                                  10th OA - Pick a Forward...…………...Krebs/Zegras/Boldy/Dach…………...on or 2 will be available

Pearson                     Horvat                             Toffolli                                   25th OA - Pick BPA

Rousell                       Gaudette                        Sutter                                    34th OA - Pick Best Dmsn available...…….Thompson/Krezar

Schaller                      Beagle                            Eriksson                                40th OA - Pick BPA

                             Granlund +Motte

 

                  Hughes                    Myers

                  Edler                        Stecher

                  Hutton                      Schenn

                  Juolevi                      Biega

 

                               Markstrom

                                Demko

 

 

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Baertschi + 2020-3rd...……..for...……….New Jersey's  2019 2nd (34th OA) 

 

i read your post 3x carefully

and could find no stated reason why nj would want baerschi and his banged up noggin

for the privilege of donating their 2nd round pick to us

(you only make some vague statement about them needing forwards)

and i have to agree

there is no possible reason nj would want baertschi

  • Upvote 1

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Posted (edited)

pearson

roussel

leivo

-------

baertschi

 

i think that is a more reasonable list of the order of left wingers on the canucks that would interest nj for their second round pick 

and they'd be unlikely to do any deal one for one

Edited by coastal.view

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10 hours ago, coastal.view said:

 

Baertschi + 2020-3rd...……..for...……….New Jersey's  2019 2nd (34th OA) 

 

i read your post 3x carefully

and could find no stated reason why nj would want baerschi and his banged up noggin

for the privilege of donating their 2nd round pick to us

(you only make some vague statement about them needing forwards)

and i have to agree

there is no possible reason nj would want baertschi

Fair question.

 

So here was my thinking...….Lot of players have had multiple concussions, starting with Crosby, and ending with Willie Mitchell. In Mitchell's case, Vancouver was not willing to take the risk and he signed in Florida and went on to have multiple seasons with no symptoms. But, I do acknowledge there is risk, so I added the 3rd rounder. Baertschi, although not being a high end 2nd liner, is definitely a 2nd line player when healthy. We move him because IMO, we have a better 2nd line player in Pearson, and not for any other reason...…. I believe Baertschi gives value, and is worth the pick, the 3rd is insurance......Sven scores at over a .5 point per game average, with a Center that is not exactly known as a play maker. If Sven goes on to score 45+ points a game for the next 5 seasons, then NJ would have had great value for that 2nd, and gets a 3rd for free, there is risk on both ends, but NJ gets a guaranteed insurance. I am not flogging him because he is injured, I am flogging him because we have a better option.

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10 hours ago, coastal.view said:

pearson

roussel

leivo

-------

baertschi

 

i think that is a more reasonable list of the order of left wingers on the canucks that would interest nj for their second round pick 

and they'd be unlikely to do any deal one for one

I think you undervalue Pearson...….he will not be a 60 point guy...I am not saying that, but he is a solid 2nd liner, although maybe not a top 10 2nd liner, but still good enough.

He does not look out of place with Bo..do you think he does?

 

Roussel is a great 3rd line player, who earns his keep...….he plays an honest, and full 60 minute game...…..I agree though not what NJ is looking for

 

Leivo, is just a hard worker...…..

 

Baertschi, on talent alone, is better than all 3, but is not a physical player, in the way Pearson can be...…..I like Pearson better for Bo

 

Obviously, you are very concerned about Baertschi's concussions...…..and think he has no value because of them......

 

You may be right...…….I just think if he hasn't retired, then the doctors have less concern...…...

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

I think you undervalue Pearson...….he will not be a 60 point guy...I am not saying that, but he is a solid 2nd liner, although maybe not a top 10 2nd liner, but still good enough.

He does not look out of place with Bo..do you think he does?

 

Roussel is a great 3rd line player, who earns his keep...….he plays an honest, and full 60 minute game...…..I agree though not what NJ is looking for

 

Leivo, is just a hard worker...…..

 

Baertschi, on talent alone, is better than all 3, but is not a physical player, in the way Pearson can be...…..I like Pearson better for Bo

 

Obviously, you are very concerned about Baertschi's concussions...…..and think he has no value because of them......

 

You may be right...…….I just think if he hasn't retired, then the doctors have less concern...…...

i do not undervalue pearson at all

you are suggesting nj trade to the nucks a near 1st round pick for a winger

you think pearson is worth a very low 1st round pick, or a very high 2nd round pick?

i think most nhl gms would not pay that for him

 

he appears to be a solid player coming off a season playing for 3 teams

he had a nice little run at the end which is a positive, but who is the real pearson?

how do you explain the first 2/3 of his season? a receiving gm will want a solid answer to this

before exchanging a high value pick for a player

there is no solid answer yet, only some solid guesswork

it is not a value enhancing record to be traded 2x in 1 season... a very worrying record actually

(you simply wish to ignore this factor.. the most important one in my view)


i think you might be overvaluing him

 

baertschi appears to be 1 solid unhappy hit from his career ending

he is not there yet

but i doubt anyone would bet a lot of money he will manage to be able to play out his contract

i really like him as a player

but he has no value

since if that hit happens

his contract becomes an anchor and his team pays him for not playing

 

you have listed some players who have overcome this issue

but appear to recognize they are special

there is a much longer list of players who have had to retire

you can look that up yourself

he is a very high risk player presently

 

you should also consider this fact

if you are nj gm and you have that very high 2nd round pick

and you have 30 other teams to review for wingers

i'll bet you dollars to donuts

they can find a better winger with less risk

then baertschi

you don't even have to be a real gm to be able to do that

 

you need to take off your canuck glasses for a few moments

to take a second look at a trade proposal

the homerism is too evident i think

Edited by coastal.view

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1 hour ago, coastal.view said:

 

i think you might be overvaluing him

 

baertschi appears to be 1 solid unhappy hit from his career ending

he is not there yet

but i doubt anyone would bet a lot of money he will manage to be able to play out his contract

i really like him as a player

but he has no value

since if that hit happens

his contract becomes an anchor and his team pays him for not playing

 

you have listed some players who have overcome this issue

 

You give a good argument

 

I will say this...….the media glorifies everything

The truth is, one concussion is not like the second, and they are accumulative

But one man's concussion is not like the next

I have boxed and played hockey, and unfortunately have had countless

some minor and some major

And the doctors will tell you, they don't know when the next one will be your last

Boxers for instance, have so many it is unbelievable, and yet some box for along time other not much at all

 

But your point remains, and as long as it is an imperfect science, it will scare the hell out of 

players, coaches, and General Managers.....so I get your point....it is valid

 

So, I am not looking for why not, but how can we......

Let's take your argument and try to find common ground......let's find the answer

other than it just won't happen.....

 

Baertschi, if healthy, will help NJ, and would be a solid acquisition……..

So if Baertschi + 2020-3rd...……..for...……….New Jersey's  2019 2nd (34th OA) is not enough

 

What is?

 

Baertschi + a conditional 2021 2nd if Baertschi does not play 70 games his 1st  or 2nd year? That is a low risk proposal for NJ

and one that not many will be willing to beat...……...especially at his cap hit......all GM risk that every game

 

If he goes on LTIR, it is only 2 years, and doesn't really impact their cap, as it is a young team

...….and they will be able to do the start of season shuffle to keep under the cap, if that ever becomes a issue in the 2 years

 

IMO...Baertschi, healthy is worth that 2019 2nd, if he doesn't make it we cover the asset loose, that or we pay 50% of his cap hit

 

But, the point is, there are ways...…….He has talent, and he has value

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Fair question.

 

So here was my thinking...….Lot of players have had multiple concussions, starting with Crosby, and ending with Willie Mitchell. In Mitchell's case, Vancouver was not willing to take the risk and he signed in Florida and went on to have multiple seasons with no symptoms. But, I do acknowledge there is risk, so I added the 3rd rounder. Baertschi, although not being a high end 2nd liner, is definitely a 2nd line player when healthy. We move him because IMO, we have a better 2nd line player in Pearson, and not for any other reason...…. I believe Baertschi gives value, and is worth the pick, the 3rd is insurance......Sven scores at over a .5 point per game average, with a Center that is not exactly known as a play maker. If Sven goes on to score 45+ points a game for the next 5 seasons, then NJ would have had great value for that 2nd, and gets a 3rd for free, there is risk on both ends, but NJ gets a guaranteed insurance. I am not flogging him because he is injured, I am flogging him because we have a better option.

Mitchell was offered a 1 year deal by Vancouver after the 2010 season.  He signed with LA because they offered a 2 year deal.  First year he didn’t play a full season.  Second year of deal he played most of the year, they won cup.  Got another 2 year deal and missed the whole first year and played most of the second year and  won a cup.  Went to Florida after that.

 

If we had offered Willie a 2 year and he took it, we probably wouldn’t have gotten Hamius after making that trade for Ballard at the draft.  Or we could have gotten all 3 and not worry about having to use Rome in 2011 and maybe we win a cup.

 

AV stopped trusting Ballard after he got hurt early in the season.  He actually played well with Tanev after Tanev was called up later in the year.  Tanev eventually passed Ballard on the depth chart during playoffs.  Same with Rome before he got suspended.

Edited by gong_8

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