Noseforthenet
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Posts posted by Noseforthenet
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2 hours ago, KKnight said:
Boeser isn't getting traded for OEL
Let's hope not....
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I get the feeling, with Stetcher now being dumped off that something we don't like might be going the other way and might be the cost of losing the Eriksson contract. It could be Boeser Eriksson and a 1st for OEL and Jason Demers. I don't like the idea, but in theory, the team could handle it. The cap hits are essentially the same and it fills 2 holes in the line up. Not to mention that frees up money to sign Toffoli (should that convince him to stay), then we have both Hoglander coming to camp next year and Podkolzin likely joining near the end of the season. We COULD do without Boeser in this scenario. Then sign Tanev to a 1 year (wait and see) contract somewhere between 5 and 6 mil.
Miller-Petey-Free agent/Hoglander?
Pearson-Horvat-Toffoli
Roussel-Gaudette-Sutter
Motte-Beagle-MacEwen
(Virtanen?)
Hughes-Tanev
OEL-Myers
Edler-Demers
Benn, Free agent
Like it or not, this drops off enough salary that we could survive the expansion draft and re-sign Petey and Hughes to good long contracts.
Protect our top 6 + 1 bottom 6 forward
Hughes, OEL, and Myers
And 1 goalie.
Like it or not, it works.
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37 minutes ago, Moose Nuckle said:
I guess Laine isn't worth anything either since he wasn't traded, right?
Another blah argument. Next time just blow hard into the air, it'll be just as convincing.
Laine wasn't being shopped for a pick.... Damn man, your stupid makes my head hurt.
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1 minute ago, Moose Nuckle said:
Poor arguments don't help a false narrative.
Well, that doesn't change the fact that he was being shopped for a pick. What's his worth on the open market then, slick? 2nd? Nope? 3rd? Not looking like that either.
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2 minutes ago, Moose Nuckle said:
Virtanen got past Hughes in practice. We better not qualify Hughes, what a bust.
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Chris Tanev, of all people, was able to toe drag Virtanen in practice. How does that even happen?! Maybe he gets better, but to this point in his career, I have to agree that Craig Button was pretty dead on in the assessment that he should have been a mid second rounder, due to his intelligence.
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I expect team elected salary arbitration, if he isn't moved.
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Ehhhh, I think this is spun in a way to make Vancouver look not so great. In reality, like they have said, they have higher priorities. Toffoli and Tanev are in the second tier of priorities right now. If Toffoli's agent wants an answer now, he's probably not gonna get the one which keeps his client in Vancouver. The move was never a make or break for this franchise to begin with.
We must also remember that he was traded for when we didn't know the remainder of the season was getting cancelled. Does the trade even get made if we knew the season was gonna get shortened and knowing we were gonna have Brock back for the playoffs...ehhhh, maybe, but it's far less likely.
I like him. Vancouver does too. He's a luxury though. This OEL thing needs to be cleared up. It might also be connected to the Markstrom thing. Maybe the deal is bigger, also sending a RHD our way too, connecting it to the Tanev thing, and in reality, there are about 2 or 3 dominoes to fall, before we can even consider trying to sign another top 6 forward. If Toffoli really wants to be here that bad, he'll wait. Otherwise *shrugs* oh well. You're now in one of the obscure named Canucks jersey club. Nice knowing ya.
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28 minutes ago, oldnews said:
It's ironic you raise that.
First - I haven't 'downplayed' any OEL connection - that's fiction. It's a highly unique situation - what I pointed out is that OEL has identified this team - otherwise they are highly unlikely to go seeking to acquire a player like him - it has so many prerequisites that make it a difficult deal for this team to make - not least of which is the cap tightness and the fact a LHD is not a principal need. And again he's one defenseman - he's not the 'beginning of an overhaul' - an absurd claim that only people distant from this team could make (half their blueline from last season was new - and two of them are here to stay for some time - this team is not 'beginning' an overhaul - they are well on their way with a mere piece or two in question.
Second - you're the poster that claimed Krug is the better defenseman - that OEL is "inferior" - and then declined to answer why you believe that. Because you didn't want to have a discussion with a 'certain user'...and yet, here you are, attempting make sideways posts where you've neither represented what I have to say, nor have you answered the simple question what makes a Krug 'superior' to Ekman-larsson...
OEL is not a comparable to a Krug or Barrie - period. He's an all-situations defenseman - who - before Hedman arrived, was the #1 on one of the top 3 or 4 national teams in the world - and remains their captain - not a powerplay specialist or guy that needs high ozone starts and a partner to anchor him.
He is that anchor.
Moreover - the team's closest D prospect - Juolevi is a two way, defenseman - a D that is a puck mover - with excellent hockey intelligence - if they dont' acquire OEL they still have a solid prospect in the two way mold to compete for their 3LHD spot. I have never implied that I don't want a second puck mover in the mix - what I want is a two way D that can move the puck - huge difference wadr.
One of the reasons I'd consider Ekman-larsson (in spite of being a LHD) - is that he is quite different in fact than Krug/Barrie types - he would literally make any pairing better - and with him and Edler, the team would have a serious 1-2 punch that would create all kinds of opportunity for Hughes. However, it absolutely requires Arizona eating a comparable amount of cap in return - for me LE would be non-negotiable - he's in or there is no deal.
Krug and Barrie on the other hand - create an overlap as opposed to complement to Hughes - they don't bring all the other elements that Ekman-larsson does - they are more suited to teams - like Boston - that don't otherwise have a Hughes - and could use him as their top unit powerplay quarterback. Krug makes little sense here - and to claim that OEL is "inferior" to him is sheer noob / highlight reel stuff.
There you have it - once again - so you can avoid the matter and make your squiggley face - until the next time you misrepresent the point.
This is one thing we definitely agree on. There is no deal to be made without Eriksson going the other way. You can do it, but it's not a smart move. I still think it gets done though. The fact that Eriksson's contract only takes up cap and not much for salary is why I think a deal gets done though.
I don't think that the Canucks give up the 2021 1st in this one. I figure our prospects are better than that and I don't know if you've seen the Benning Zoom call from a day or two ago for the lead up to today, he was propping up our prospects and pumping their tires like I have never seen him do before. Evidently, he does to. At least to the point of posturing at the idea that we could go into next season and just have guys like Juolevi, Rathbone, and Hoglander could even make the team.
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7 minutes ago, Barry_Wilkins said:
Your reading comprehension needs to improve. I was talking specifically about Loui, whose numbers tanked immediately upon arriving in Vancouver. So you're making my point. Top cap hits, for forwards OR Dmen, should only go to high point producers.
My contrast between differences in OEL and Loui's game, and their differing positions, talents, and team situations, remain, and are pertinent. I notice you didn't address those arguments.
The cap hit is 8.25 mil. "These numbers are reserved for top defensemen who contribute offensively". Are you arguing that OEL is not a top offensive Dman?
Here are his numbers from the last 6 full seasons, newest to oldest (not including the abbreviated past season).
T21 place with 49pts
T23 42 pts
T24 39 pts
7 55 pts
22 43 pts
T15 50 pts
By definition, OEL has consistently been a #1 Dman (always better than 31st place) on offense.
As for your quibble about "should", only a fool would guarantee and pencil in point production for a player in the future. It's about probabilities. OEL's as sure as you can get to projecting, with pretty good confidence, that he'll replicate, slightly reduce, or even INcrease his average production from his last six full seasons.
If you want a guarantee, buy a dishwasher from a reputable company, and get the manufacturer's insistence on it.
THAT was a good post, my friend. Cheers.
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18 minutes ago, Devron44 said:
Your take on Boeser sucks.
Boeser rarely played with the Sedins in his first year mostly with Horvat.
Also Pearl Jam sucks
You can't argue with someone who likes Pearl Jam. They can't be reasoned with by sound logic. TBH, the only thing that's getting to me about Boeser is he's passing too much. He needs to be much more greedy with his shooting. He's a potential 40 goal scorer and he's not shooting the puck. In fact, he basically stopped since Petey showed up.
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5 minutes ago, Roger Neilsons Towel said:
I have to interject. It's not too far. Pearl Jam was never any good and I'm tired of people pretending they ever were.
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8 hours ago, Devron44 said:
If we are taking 12 million back I seriously question why we are even doing this. The whole idea is to send a contract there way as well. The numbers add up because Arizona is looking at having to pay this guy 50 million dollars over the next 7 years. It’s not just because they are up against the cap now but this is a team that can’t afford to be cap team year in and year out. They actually have quite a bit coming off next year
Everybody has a decent amount of expiring contracts because of expansion and the pandemic. For free agency, we're likely gonna see a trend of 1 year contracts, as the market evolves into whatever it does in the next couple years. Teams are in a holding pattern.
As far as this trade goes, yeah the salary relief the Canucks could give them is the only real reason why there's an ideal trade which could be done in the first place. Even then, it's still a stretch. I would put the odds of it happening at 50/50.
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24 minutes ago, Devron44 said:
I don’t think we are trading Demko. JB made it pretty clear he’s the future. And that teams need 2 goalies. If Markstrom is signed it will be a contract they can move. We wouldn’t be signing Marky to trade Demko imo
You have to understand that Arizona is dumping salary like nobody's business. This may be one of the only way a deal gets done. We're likely gonna be a cap team with alot of expiring contracts, having expansion coming up. This is a very complicated trade, with many moving parts to it, should it get done. I just can't shake that it isn't just OEL's salary that we're gonna be taking back. The Canucks are gonna have to dump 8 to 9 million in high cap and low salary back to Arizona to even execute the trade in the first place. The numbers don't add up. They're likely not taking Beagle or Sutter because they lost Richardson. This trade gets done, we're likely taking over 12 million in salary back. In total. Now pick your guys who fit that mould. There's a handful of defensemen, one of their goalies, or maybe one forward.
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4 minutes ago, BPA said:
On HFBOARDS...yes that other forum. They say Markstrom and OEL are good friends. Maybe if we get OEL, we get Markstrom on a team friendly deal.
Wishful thinking I know.
That's actually a great point to this. Makes me wonder if there's a goalie swap which is a part of this. I wouldn't like the idea of tying up over 10 mil into goaltending this season, but I would like the idea of losing 4.25 of it in the next one. If Demko ends up being involved, it would open up options to bolster the bottom 6 and maybe also recoup some picks.
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4 hours ago, oldnews said:
I don't understand your proposal - at all.
You propose to include Hoglander, Juolevi, Gaudette and a player like Motte?
And then you "god no" to the secondary piece coming the other way?
I can't figure out the valuation at all - there is absolutely no way whatsoever I would part with 4 young players like you've proposed - at the same time as sandbagging a player like Dvorak.
I'd welcome Dvorak in a deal, wadr.
18 goals, 38 pts, +6, 28 of those pts came 5 on 5
Their best faceoff guy at 55.1% - and not a small sample = he won 523 draws.
he had the highest on ice goals for per 60 at 5on5 = 3.7 and the best goal metrics/goal differential = 2.7 gaa per 60 = +0.7 per 60.
he had the 2nd best corsi on the Yotes - 51.3%
Kessel, Keller, Hayton, Schmaltz - all had higher ozone starts than he did.
I don't know why we would "god no" this 23 year old.
A 23 year old that dominates in the faceoff circle....a better faceoff guy than Horvat was at age 23...
He's looking like a guy with more term who is a middle 6 player being over paid, AT first glance. Regardless of his acumen, as you so diligently pointed out, the only term I want coming back in a deal is OELs. Anyone else we get should be a one year deal, IMO.
As far as the valuation is concerned, you gotta look at it from the point of view that Arizona (one of the poorest teams in the NHL) is looking at icing a team, while not having any gate revenues. I'm guessing this team is gonna try and keep alot more of the young players that they can. If we end up saddling them with that much dead cap (which is kind of the only way this deal happens) it's still gonna cost prospect capital. Hoglander and Motte/MacEwen/Virtanen aren't going to have a ton of value, here, IMO.
TBH, it looks to me like the Yotes are trying to do what the Jets are trying to do, which is trade one of their biggest trade chips to fill the holes in the lineup.
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Alright. I've analyzed the situation to the best of MY ability at least. There's probably at least one other player in play here on the Phoenix side, depending on the offer(s) on the table.
So I assume Boeser was talked about, but ultimately not involved in a trade for OEL.
Offer 1
Eriksson (minimal salary, Valued to Arizona)
Ferland (likely not playing again, so LTIR to replace Hossa's spot after this season. Salary insured, so much less or no money out of ownership pockets)
Total cap hit 9.5 so far total 2021 salary paid by Arizona ownership : 1 mil
Gaudette- Approximately 1 million
Juolevi- Approximately 1 million
Hoglander-prospect capital
Bottom 6 roster player (one of MacEwen, Tyler Motte, or Jake Virtanen)-approximately 2 million
Total cap 13.5 for 5 roster players and a prospect
Arizona:
OEL
Either Christian Dvorak(please God no)
Or
One of the 3 ufa defensemen they have on their last year of their contracts making more than 3 million. If I had to guess, it's Jason Demers. Salary matches up within about 1 million.
The other option is it's a goalie swap instead of a regular roster player, and it's Raanta coming the other way because there's one year left on his contract and then Demko would be included on the Vancouver side instead of Hoglander and the other bottom 6 roster player or maybe he slots in for Gaudette.
It sets us up beautifully for expansion and then to re-sign Petey and Hughes.
Can't forget it's likely we'd end up losing either Beagle or Roussel in this scenario and protect the 8 skaters plus a goalie.
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9 hours ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:
Two leftys? I don’t know the importance of LD and RD positionally, but there would be more balance if a natural RD with a right shot was there instead.
If anyone, I’d go for Pietrangelo. We won’t need to give up assets via trade, he’s a better defenceman than OEL and he’s a right handed shot.
I see nobody actually answered this question for you properly. The answer is it's easier to corral the puck when it gets rattled around the boards. That's why left Ds are usually left handed and right Ds are right. If you get a guy on the right side who's a lefty or vice versa, they have to either use their skate to hold the puck in the offensive zone, or they have to turn their back to the play and use their backhand. Neither one are an ideal option. Vegas had 5 lefties and 1 righty and he isn't even that great either. There's other advantages too. Like when Keith Ballard was playing and we didn't make him play his off side, he was more comfortable laying the hip check down because it was his natural side.
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1 minute ago, grandmaster said:
Agreed.
Our defence needs a solid upgrade if we are to compete for a Cup and with Edler gone after this upcoming season, there is going to be far too many holes in the back end. Some of these negative fans just don’t get it. Not every Swede is a Louie freaking Eriksson! I’m sure OEL will be a fantastic acquisition for years to come, like all the other great Swedes this town has enjoyed over the years.
On a side note, I would prefer Alex Pietralengelo but a bidding war for free agents always end up being too costly and we need to dump salary via a trade.
Also, JB's free agent history sketches me out a little bit. I don't wanna see him go after a big fish like that. Especially with there being a need to massage the salary, so to speak. There are cap issues on the way with Petey and Hughes, but there will also need to be some understanding as well because of the Pandy. Everyone has to work with it. The landscape of everything is changing and a bridge deal will surely see them both making more money in the long run and keeping them in Canucks colors into their 30s. I'm sure those kids wanna be successful too. The situation can't be compared with the Leafs or any other situation because this hasn't been dealt with before.
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9 minutes ago, IjustNEEDaTROYgamble said:
No I agree but Arizona's scounting department might have Rathbone or even Woo higher rated because his injury history scared them.
They might, but of the 3 of them, only one has any kind of NHL experience at all. I also wouldn't exactly say Arizona's scouting department is stellar either. They still can't score goals very well. Woo had an injury this year as well. My bet is on Olli as being the popular choice for them.
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2 minutes ago, dougieL said:
Rathbone is a left shot. Woo is the only right shot out of the three.
Oh, I thought he was a right. Thanks for that. Yeah, then I guess they COULD choose. Olli is further along in his development though, so I still think they would take Olli.
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Okay, I just wanna say this talk about OEL regressing already is complete garbage. He's 29, his skating is the smoothest I've seen outside of a handful of hall of fame defensemen, and 30 points in 66 games on one of the lowest scoring teams in the league is nothing to sneeze at, and he has proven to be one of the most durable defensemen in the game today. Playing the kind of minutes he has had to and then looking at the role he would have on this team, it's not a stretch to think he would be very effective here. Plus he has a damn good shot, which isn't exactly something the Canucks have from the blue line. If the cap hits match up and the needs are met for both teams I say do it.
This isn't a Toronto Maple Retards move. Hell, this wouldn't even be a Jim Benning signing a soft player who has suffered multiple concussions to a long term deal move. This is a calculated risk worth taking. We need a replacement for Edler. There aren't many options out there who are actually better than him for the minutes he plays on this team.
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8 hours ago, IjustNEEDaTROYgamble said:
he most likely will be but Arizona could also like Rathbone or Woo and be scared off by his injury history, I would let Arizona pick 1 of those three because we might all be valuing Juolevi higher then Arizona has him and think they need Rathbone or Woo.
Juolevi is the only lefty of the 3 of them. All you need to do is look at the depth chart to see that, should Juolevi reach his potential, if we had OEL, Juolevi would be gone once he was getting to the point of making bigger money anyways (in theory.) Olli projects to be a top 4 and if he's not gonna unseat Hughes or OEL, then what's he doing here. Might as well use him to acquire OEL anyways. It's probably who they would want, regardless.
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15 hours ago, IjustNEEDaTROYgamble said:
*stands on chair* slow clap
thank you someone else that sees his value if the owners can pay for it then the salary is no concern because at the end of OEL contract the worst he will be is Edler to mentor Juolevi and turn him into a great player.
If there is a trade to be made, Juolevi is going the other way. I guarantee that. I would be more surprised if he WASN'T going the other way.
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[Discussion] Arizona/OEL
in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Posted
Right on. I thought he might not be after playing one more full season.