BigTramFan
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Posts posted by BigTramFan
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Trade 1
To CAR: Garland
To VAN: Coghlan (rfa rights)
Trade 2
To PIT: Beauvillier + 2023 4th round pick (NYR)
To VAN: 2024 2nd round pick (PIT)
Trade 3
To CHI: Boeser + Rathbone + Pearson (LTIR) + 2023 11OA pick
To VAN: 2023 19OA pick (TBL) + 2023 44OA pick (OTT)
Trade 4
To ARI: 2023 44OA pick (OTT) + 2024 2nd round pick (PIT) + Woo + Coghlan (rights) + Poolman (LTIR)
To VAN: Crouse
Sign:
Graves $5m x 6
Barbashev $4.75m x 5
Soucy $3m x 4
Acciari $2m x 3
Hoglander $850k x 2
Burroughs $775k x 3
Roster with $83.4m cap hit, including overages:
Crouse Pettersson Kuzmenko
Barbashev Miller Mikheyev
Hoglander Acciari Podkolzin
Joshua Aman DiGiuseppe
(Studnicka)
Hughes Graves
OEL Hronek
Soucy Myers
(Wolanin Burroughs)
Demko (Silovs)
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4 hours ago, Phil_314 said:
Buffalo doesn't need Boeser, they've already got lots of wing talent; they need a top-4 RD.
They would have plenty of cap space to sign 1 or 2 out of Dumba, Severson, Mayfield or Clifton.
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40 minutes ago, smithers joe said:
i like 2/3rds of your top 2 lines. 1/3 rd of them are the wrong mix. i see you have us winning each trade.
4th line is all right. can't comment on 3rd line's mix yet until they play together.
no to tryamkin, OEL AND MYERSd
do you have the cap hits worked out?
I'm not sure which 2/3 of the top 2 lines you like/don't like. The Kuz-EP-Beau line generated 108 shots for vs 86 shots against in 224 mins together, so not sure what the problem is there? I note that Miller and Mik have not played together much, but I think Mik's speed and forecheck will be a very good foil for Miller, kinda like Di Giuseppe was last season, but with more speed and better finishing capability. Hoglander's play has improved significantly with his season in the AHL and his scoring touch has really come on. He scored 32 pts in 45 games, and then 6 pts in 6 playoff games. I think he is ready for the top 6.
The trades were proposed by fans of the other teams. They weren't my trade ideas and they weren't made by a Canuck's fan. So not homerisms.
Cap hit for the roster comes to $83.3m as stated in the original proposal.
The 3LD could be any decent bottom pairing guy instead of Tryamkin. I believe it is worth giving him a shot, as his size would be great for playoff hockey. We have other depth LD options if he doesn't work out.
You don't want OEL and Myers? Hmm, you're not alone. It would cost too much to trade OEL right now. He may improve once fully healed from his broken foot and having a full off season to train. We still have the option of buy out after next season if he doesn't improve. As mentioned in the original proposal, I would waive Myers once the season starts and he would likely get picked up on waivers.
Cheers
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A couple of trade ideas that I saw on Capfriendly ACGM from other teams' fans that would be interested in adding Garland and Boeser.
Suggests that these guys are tradeable, but we're not going to get much in return.
Trade 1
To BUF: Boeser
To VAN: Jokiharju
Trade 2
To CAR: Garland
To VAN: Joey Keane (rfa rights, RD, 23 year old, 3rd round pick from 2018, played 2 NHL games)
Off season signings:
Graves $5m x 6
Compher $4.75m x 6
Bjugstad $1.75m x 3
Tryamkin $1.25m x 1
Rittich $1m x 1
Hoglander $950k x 2
Burroughs $775k x 2
Tierney $775k x 2
Opening night roster $83.3m cap hit with Pearson & Poolman on LTIR:
Kuzmenko Pettersson Beauviller
Mikheyev Miller Hogander
Podkolzin Compher Bjugstad
Joshua Aman DiGiuseppe
(Tierney)
Hughes Graves
OEL Hronek
Tryamkin Myers
Burroughs Jokiharju
Demko (Rittich)
Early on into next season place Myers on waivers:
Expectation is that someone claims him, opening up cap space to bring Pearson and Poolman off LTIR if they get healthy. Jokiharju slides into 3RD and bring Wolanin up as 8th D.
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3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:
Tocchet loves Dvorak. I could see a trade happening with Montreal...
Who better than the man who coached Christian Dvorak for four years to tell us what the Canadiens’ new centre is all about?
Former Arizona Coyotes head coach Rick Tocchet, whose contract with the team was not renewed this summer, is well-suited to describe what kind of player Dvorak has become since joining the NHL. So, after the Canadiens acquired him on Sept. 4, we asked him to detail the different aspects of the 25-year-old’s play.
“He’s a really good 200-foot player, he plays his own end very well,” Tocchet said. “When he’s at his best, he scores goals around the net. If you watch a lot of his goals, it’s 15 feet out. He’s got that quick release, but he also gets a lot of rebounds and tip goals too. Those are important goals. Those are hard to find, those type of players that are willing to go into the paint, into the middle of the ice a lot.”
This echoes what Canadiens GM Marc Bergevin said about Dvorak a few days after acquiring him. He described him as a responsible two-way centre, whose honest style of play might not “wow you,” but will see him commit to the finer details of the game.
What would the price be?
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47 minutes ago, mll said:
Speed was the 1st thing Trotz said he wanted to add. Boeser doesn't have speed.
Don't think Nashville is looking to box out their young players either when Trotz talks of step back to take a step forward. He also talks about veterans needing to re-invent themselves and take on new roles as their young players take over their roles.
Tomasino is not a 3rd line grinder but someone they think will be a top-6 F. This would be repeating the Tolvanen debacle. You are forgetting Pärssinen - the player that Trotz says has impressed him the most (even joked that he asked him how come he wasn't a 1st rounder).
McCarron is not a NHL regular. They seem better off retaining Johansen even if he plays C4. He's also reliable defensively and can move up and down the lineup and play C while Boeser will only take a spot away from a young player they are trying to develop and it's not like he can be effective in the bottom-6.
They are already retaining on Eckholm and might not be making the playoffs next year. Not sure they want to retain on a 2nd contract that would then leave them only 1 retention spot left.
Trotz also says he hopes to take advantage of cap strapped teams to gain additional assets. Nashville doesn't have to move Johansen and this deal seems to help Vancouver mostly by moving a winger for a C while using up a retention spot for Nashville.
Yeah I really don't think Nashville would make the trade anyway, but I don't think it's unrealistic. You speak about Boeser as if he is some old guy blocking the path of young players. He's 26 years old and on a down-season he would have been the 3rd highest scorer on that NSH team.
Remember Nashville resigned Forsberg (now 28) a year ago to an 8 year contract, and he will be blocking young players too. However, I think their mgmt are aware that they need to find a balance between young players and players in their prime.
Regarding Tomasino. You don't need to be a grinder to play on the 3rd line. He might be a top 6 player one day but he is nowhere near that right now. 3rd line is a good place to develop. Didn't forget Parssinen, just that he is not waiver eligible, so he doesn't need to be on the roster either.
If NSH made the trade that was originally proposed, then they still have the same amount of cap available to take on additional assets from cap strapped teams, so I'm not sure why you mention that.
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1 hour ago, Alflives said:
Quality
Yeah not great, but they are retooling to get younger.
Bearing in mind that Glass (35 pts, age 24), Novak (43 pts, age 26) and Sissons (30 pts, age 29) all out scored Johansen (28 pts, age 30) playing center, then trading RyJo for Boeser (55 pts, age 26) makes sense for NSH. Boeser is 4 years younger than RyJo and provides way more offensive upside.
Their forward lineup becomes:
Forsberg Novak Boeser
Duchene Glass Evangelista
Trenin Sissons Tomasino
Asplund McCarron Sherwood
(Smith)
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56 minutes ago, HKSR said:
I'd do the Boeser for Johansen trade assuming NASH retains to even up the cap. Could be a really nice 3C option.
Not sure if NASH would do it though. Who do they have down the middle?
Agree the RyJo retained for Boeser trade would be a good fit for VAN.
NSH have Novak, Glass, Sissons, Parssinen down the middle plus Duchene as cover.
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26 minutes ago, HKSR said:
Just curious how they determined this?
For example, 2021 is showing a HUGE drop off from 1OA to 2OA. Owen Power to Matty Beniers? Really? That's not that big of a drop off IMO.
Likewise, 2022 is showing a MASSIVE drop off from 5OA to 6OA. 5OA was Cutter Gauthier. 6OA was David Jiricek
My understanding is that their Expected Prospect Values are based on a combination of the odds the player makes the NHL and the odds the player becomes a “Star” in the NHL [players who are projected to hit the 82.5th percentile or above in Wins Above Replacement (WAR)]. I am not advocating this assessment and I fully understand that assessments of draft prospects is a guessing game that teams do their best to win.
I assume the 2021 draft projections he is comparing to were made prior to the 2021 draft and were not re-calculated 2 years later, since 2-years of hindsight means it would no longer be a fair comparison between 2021 projections and 2023 projections of prospect values.
Read more here if you want to:
How Strong is the 2023 NHL Draft Class? - by Chace McCallum (substack.com)
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This is not the draft to drop from 11OA to 19OA or worse.
We need to realise that the 2023 is projected to be an excellent draft at the top end of the draft (i.e. the first 15 picks). After that, the quality drops to similar levels of previous drafts. Here is a projection illustrating this:
These guys are projecting that picking at 11OA in 2023 is similar to picking at 6OA or 7OA from recent drafts.
However, once you get out to 19OA, the 2023 draft class is rated very similarly to 2022 and 2021 draft cohorts.
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42 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:
We keep Toffoli and Tanev we don’t acquire OEL and Garland leading to the salary issue.
Yeah I think you're right there. Original decision was to let Tanev and Toffoli walk. JB then used the $9m cap space to resign Virtanen and trade for Schmidt. Both of those decisions failed miserably and led to JB wanting to find a new top 6 winger and a top 4 Dman. Being able to clear $12m of bad contracts (Loui, Beagle, Roussel) in exchange for $12m of OEL and Garland was too much for JB to resist!
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It's like sitting next to your grandpa and hearing the same story over and over and over...
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Did we need another thread on this?
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2 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:
Obviously not 3OA but teah trading down, I'd do it if we don't have a shot at a decent player like Reinbacher/Leonard/Dvorsky.
Making a trade like Hronek makes me think Allvin might be keen to acquire another player in the offseason, a decent young guy, and if it only costs us 11 spaces in the draft which means we get a solid young shutdown RD for 10 years and a partner for Hughes then I'd do it.
It's a 'hell no' from me. Dropping 11 places is a massive risk/cost. By VAN getting decent young player, you mean Peeke? He's young but he's not decent by any measure.
I'd rather keep the 11OA, trade Garland for nothing, and sign a UFA such as Ryan Graves for $5m. He's 3 years older than Peeke but at least you know what you're getting with Graves - and that is a legit NHL Dman.
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12 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:
Peeke's hard to read, good young player on a bad team, even Gavrikov's stats looked bad with CBJ, but then he is to blame for a lot of the problems. On a solid defensive structure with a good goalie and solid partner like Hughes, I think he'd really turn things around. Makes me wonder if we can't buy low?
11OA + Garland for Peeke + 1st should do, no need to add Hoglander
If they want Beauvillier instead give them whoever they want.
We draft a defenceman like Strbak or Willander or Lindstein and are laughing.
So you are saying 11OA + Garland in exchange for 3OA + Peeke?
CBJs would hang up the phone.
Surely you are not suggesting we trade down from 11OA to 22OA (the pick CBJ got from LAK)?
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2 hours ago, hammertime said:
Ill break it down another way.
To CBJ
11OA
To Van
22 + 34
This is already slightly to van's favor
Now add in Peeke for Brock + Hoglander
Take a look at Peekes stats from the last 2 years. https://moneypuck.com/stats.htm he plays top pairing mins top 20 among rhd he's top 10 in D zone deployment, top 10 Pk, top 20 in hits, yet only took 22 pims this year thats tidy.
He makes 2.75 mill that's an efficient contract.
Yes but being top 20 in minutes is not the same as a top 20 Dman in the league.
Gubranson had slightly higher ATOI than Peeke did this season (Peeke played more games so had more total mins played) but this shows that Peeke is not necessarily a top pairing RD even on a team as bad as CBJ was this season.
At even strength this season there were 93 goals scored against CBJ while Peeke was on the ice, and only 51 goals scored by CBJ while he was on the ice. Bloody awful.
I would trade Garland + Hoglander for Peeke, and that's just to move on from Garland's long term $4.95m cap hit, but no trade is happening with our 11OA 2023 pick.
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7 hours ago, aGENT said:
If Myers doesn't waive and Arizona has actual interest, we could simply waive him.
That might work but by the time we can waive him (presumably training camp in Sep 2023) the usefulness of clearing his cap hit will be much lower because it is occurring so late in the pre-season. For example, many of the options to improve our roster with the cap space will no longer be on the table, and/or we may have already had to trade other players with sweeteners in order to ensure we are cap compliant.
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5 hours ago, mll said:
Arizona might see the incentive to deal with Vancouver as the pick they can get from Vancouver for helping their cap situation vs the pick they might get at the TDL when it's unclear whether they'll even be able to trade him.
Yes that's pretty much what I said:
21 hours ago, BigTramFan said:The pick from VAN has to be good enough of a return in itself for Arizona to accept.
Whether Arizona trades Myers at the TDL with retention is their business and will depend on the market at that time and the other options that ARI might have to trade and retain on.
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26 minutes ago, King Heffy said:
If Toronto gets a new GM who is actually qualified for the job instead of the analytics dweeb they have now, they might actually watch some game tape and realize that Liljegren has absolutely zero chance of ever turning into an actual NHLer. I don't disagree that Rathbone isn't great, but getting rid of a defenceman who can't play defence and a forward who completely refuses to backcheck or break a sweat makes Toronto better. The Leafs need a serious culture change and shipping out one of the laziest pieces of garbage to ever play the game is a good start. They aren't going to get a massive return for Nylander under any circumstances.
If they want to change their culture, they don't do it by bringing in Boeser and Rathbone. They are both the opposite of the kind of players Toronto should be looking for.
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13 minutes ago, King Heffy said:
They're going to need to take a bad contract back in order to get rid of Double Flamingo. They get rid of a guy who has negative value as well as someone who is completely useless, and get back a cheaper guy who can still score and actually cares about winning. Toronto gets better via subtraction in this trade. They also free up cap to bring in an actual NHL quality blueliner to replace Liljegren. Vancouver gets nothing of use in this trade and makes the cap issues even worse.
I don't think TOR would see Boeser as an improvement on Nylander to save $312k in cap hit. It's complete conjecture that Boeser "cares about winning" more than Nylander does, and their individual stats don't indicate that caring more about winning makes a difference to their results - i.e. Nylander scores more and lets fewer goals in than Boeser.
Nor TOR see Rathbone, who is an AHL player who has not proven he can play defense at NHL level, as an improvement on Liljegren, a player of a similar age that has played 148 NHL games. At even strength Liljegren has oiGF/60 of 3.1 and oiGA/60 of 1.8. He also plays PK and has oiGA/60 of 7.5. These are all pretty decent stats for a 24 year old Dman.
Again, I'm not saying Nylander and Liljegren are fantastic players. Just that Toronto doesn't make the proposed trade and certainly not for cap saving reasons.
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28 minutes ago, mll said:
Armstrong is looking to hoard draft pick. He's been a couple of podcasts where he explains that that rebuilds take a long time so they need to get as many picks as possible to try and do it in fewer years. They added Weber so they could continue to have leverage in trade negotiations where they don't need help to reach the floor and don't have to take on contracts for free.
There's also no guarantee a team would want Myers at the TDL. Arizona not a particularly good team and his numbers could well be pretty ugly which would make him unattractive at the TDL especially at his cap hit. Anaheim added Klingberg on the hope to flip him for a premium at the TDL and all they got was a 4th round pick.
Arizona also only has 2 retentions spots left so he might not even be a player they could move at the TDL - the return might be too little to use 1 of only 2 retentions spots left and it's likely not possible to move him without retention at the TDL.
I expect Myers to nix any trade to Arizona, so this discussion is likely a moot point.
However, I'm not suggesting Arizona takes on Myers for free. I would expect VAN still parts with a pick, plus takes on Little's LTIR contract. The pick from VAN has to be good enough of a return in itself for Arizona to accept. But essentially ARI are only adding $0.7m of cap hit and $1m of salary in order to get a veteran RD (top 4 on their team) that expires in 1 season.
Whether Arizona trades Myers at the TDL with retention is their business and will depend on the market at that time and the other options that ARI might have to trade and retain on. Based on their current roster I would say Myers would be the rental that would bring back to highest return (other possible rentals from ARI are Kassian, Boyd, Nemeth, Brown).
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1 hour ago, King Heffy said:
That's still absolute trash on their blueline and a top 4 forward group that collectively doesn't care about winning. There's a decent chance they do something similar if Dubas stays, but any qualified hockey person is going to be making big changes and shipping the lazy floaters out.
I don't disagree too much with this comment. But trading Nylander + Liljegren in exchange for Boeser + Rathbone does not change that problem for Toronto.
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Done. But I'd do Boeser for Kassian at this point...
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1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:
I think a cap floor team can do both but again, cash is a big part of it.
A cash strapped team like Arizona does not want to pay 6m in cash. If it's for a first rounder maybe. (essentially buying a first round for 6m)
A team like mtl can afford to do that. Monahan was paid 6m to play 25 games this year.
To a team that doesn't have much cash, spending 1m that represents 6m and having him log big minutes on D while potentially trading that 1m salary at the tdl for a 2nd rounder is very appealing. Total cash expense would 700k ish, you got a guy that played a lot of minutes and then traded that in for a 2nd round pick.
If Arizona are concerned that by taking on Myers they are missing other opportunities to take on LTIR cap in return for picks, then VAN could always offer to take back someone like Bryan Little in return for Myers. Little's cap hit is $5.3m and he's on insured LTIR for 1 more year. That way Arizona is only adding a net $0.7m cap whilst getting a RD for only $1m in actual salary cost, and could trade him for a pick at the TDL if they wish.
However, I think the main sticking point would be Myers' 10 team no trade list. You gotta expect Arizona is on that list.
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[Proposal] Busy Off Season
in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
Posted
Thanks for your reply.
Trading for Crouse (trade 4) brings some much needed snarl into our top 6 forward group without sacrificing the ability to score goals. Last season with Bjugstad as his center Crouse scored 18 even strength goals (and it wasn't a one-off as he scored 16 ES goals the season prior in only 65 games). That ES goal production was more than Miller, Boeser and Garland; only Petey and Kuz scored more ES goals than Crouse last season. He also brings grit and deterence. We might make the playoffs with a soft top line, but I don't think we make it out of the first round without some grit in that line with Petey. So that is the reason why I think the trade 4 is necessary.
Hopefully Beauvillier can get traded without adding assets? I mean he's probably worth a 3rd round pick right now. I would rather add a 4th and get a 2nd back. I don't mind adding minor assets if we get a stronger return.