R.Dahlin26

Yes it does matter where they were picked. If you're picked in the top 5 you should have considerbly higher standards and expectations compared to propects picked in the mid rounds. Just beacuse PK Subban took 3 years and now is Norris Calibre, doesn't mean i can excuse Juolevi's, imo, rocky development so far and say "who cares about right now it only matters in the end, look at these other d-men who took 3-4 years!" when those d-men have had excellent deveolpment years leading to their Norris status.

Lol I suggest reading your own posts on pages 1-3 of this thread. You might not feel that way anymore, but I still do.

*by their D+2 seasons. So after 2 years they should at least be full time NHL'ers. Guys like Strome, MDC, Reinhart all are taking 3-5 years and all look like disspointments or are busts. Yes guys like Schenn/Gudbranson/Bogasian look like awful picks for where they were drafted.

Why would he need to get bigger? He's dominating the SHL at 170lbs. Over the years he'll add weight naturally. Going by NHLe he would put up 60 points in the NHL going off his SHL production. Didn't look overhelmed at all on the smaller surface at all to me. His ceiling will always be a first liner to me because numbers don't lie. Imo he'll make the team right out of camp. As for Juolevi we'll see how he looks in training camp. It just that this recent news about him sitting/7th d-man is concerning and raises questions.

Yes and for top five picks the hope would be that they would be ready by two years. It really shouldn't take that long IMO and history shows that if you want a future impact player.

Disagree, thought his D+1 was poor. Didn't see any improvements by his perferomnce in training camp. Didn't see any improvement by his numbers staying the same in London. We'll see how he looks this upcoming training camp with a season playing against men under his belt. Expecting a fantatstic showing and him to make the team or show at least he is ready.

Than how do you differentiate between a 5th round pick with a 5th overall pick? Are expectations the same for both of them? If there is no set time for deveolpment?

Pettersson with his D+1 has proved to be a franchise level prospect and will be in the NHL for sure by his D+2 season. Juolevi stagnated, maybe even slightly regressed imo in his D+1 and now his D+2 is almost over and his deveoplment has been up and down so far. You're assuming the gamble of taking the project d-man in the top 5, that needed to gain weight unlike the other d-men drafted afterwards will pay off. And yes his upcoming training camp perferomnce will be very telling.

Don't mistake patience with expectation. I have showed patience, it's been almost 2 years. That should be it for top 5 picks, if they aren't impact players by then they should at least be in the NHL making strides towards becoming that. That last point is arguable but we'll see how that "great season" translates to him looking in training camp.

Yes that's fine. No harm in talking about his progression up to this point though and experssing your thoughts on recent news.

Yes by 2 years Pietrangelo was a full time NHL'er, put up 40+ points in rookie season and was a top 4 d-man. By the same timeline, Juolevi should make the team out of camp next year and be a full time NHL'er making strides becoming a top 4 d-man.

IMO, his development has not gone as planned or expected at least it shouldn't when you're picking in the top 5. They shouldn't take more than 1-2 years and should be impact players. I was hoping for him to at least look like he was close to making the team last year but in training camp his perferomnce was very bad. Being danced around by nobody's in the prospcts tournamnet and had a bad showing in the pre-season. That was with a year of deveolpment under his belt. Like you said it might be because of gaining size, but all prospects gain size and have to adjust. Agreed on the last part, if he looks lost next year that would be very concerning with what would be 2 years of deveolpment under his belt.

Yes, it shouldn't take 2 years. Pietrangelo went D+1 - D+2 - NHL. So two seasons of developing in the OHL with NHL games sprinkled in. Put up 40 points in rookie season. So Juolevi would have to be in the NHL by next year to follow Pietrangeo's path.

Yes, if you make the correct choice in the top 5, it shouldn't take more than 1 year for that prospect to be ready, 2 years tops (see Pietrangelo). If it's taking 3-5 years for a top 5 pick to be an NHL'er let alone an impact player then there is something seriosly wrong with that prospect. They either are big dissapointments or busts. No one is writing Juolevi off. But to say he is fine and his development has gone as planned is false. This upcoming training camp will be significant for Juolevi and his future. He should be one of the better players at this time and make the team next fall for the 2018-2019 season and start making strides towards being a top 4 d-man.

Hall of Famer level by year 8

Now it's expecting him to perform like a first overall pick? How about a top 5 pick, which he is. In the last decade, looking at top 5 picks. The only non Nhler's by their D+2 season are Dylan Strome, MDC, and Griffen Reinhart. Right now it's looking like he's not even close to NHL ready, with being healty scratched and only the 7th d-man in the finnish league. Remenber this isn't some mid round prospcet or even a late first round prospect, this is a top 5 pick, a pick that was already highly questionable with the players they passed on. Right now the desicion is not looking great.

All of the sudden, Elias is at 0.5 goals per game. Not only is he a fantastic playmaker, and creator, he looks to have 30 goal potential.

If it weren't for that slash it looked like he was about to do his backhand to forehand deke.

Very disappointing especially with the studs they passed up on only to draft a project prospect. Already went through this with the 2014 draft, pray to god Juolevi gets his $&!# together.

Wow.

And he scores the go ahead goal!

Pettersson with an assist so far early in the 3rd period. Keeps adding to his historic season.

Looks like he's the 7th d-man again today.

No kidding. Honest discussion is good and should be welcomed. Sometimes you have to ask the difficult questions no harm in that. But as you can see some people live in their own little bubbles and the slightest criticism of a prospect, you are ganged up on and called a troll lol

You should get your facts straight. He has 17 points in 26 games. That is a 0.65 PPG and yes that has been seen before lmao. That list for U20 defenceman scoring in the Liiga is not that impressive only Vatanen and Pitkanen really stick out from that list when comparing PPG. Juolevi has decent production thus far but you have to look at it like he's a top 5 pick in his D+2 compared to mostly random's which that list is mostly compiled of. That's why you see people comparing Juoelvi to Heiskanen because they are both U20 d-men drafted in the top 5 and were drafted to become top pairing d-men. This discussion didn't start to discuss his season thus far it was to talk about his recent 2 game benching and how it's disappointing considering he should be a key part of TPS and shouldn't even be a possibility for a scratch from the coaches. It just raises questions, like if he can't hold down a spot in the Finnish league at this point in his development how far away is he from the NHL? Maybe it was a motivation thing to light a fire up his ass? Maybe he's not competing as hard as he should be from shift to shift? Hopefully, he plays on Thursday especially with TPS coming off a loss.