[(Discussion) an analysis of our new d pairings before and after Tocchet... plus how is AB doing...]

2 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I don't need points plotted on a chart to see that our defence sucks.

it was mainly the comparison of the d lines of tocchets vs Boudreaus i was interested in... slight improvements Hooray...

[(Discussion) an analysis of our new d pairings before and after Tocchet... plus how is AB doing...]

******* TRIGGER WARNING****** 

The following post contains the analysis of canucks players using "controversial" science... its of the OP's opinion that this science is used by all modern teams now, the data is to be used with a grain of salt. Analytics can be wrong especially if the info is not interpreted correctly, but if you take the time to understand the science behind each stat it can be a valuable tool in your tool bet.

 

 

Finally!!! my favorite website has accumulated enough data for me to compare our players! I thought it would be neat to compare boudreau d-lines vs Tocchets... I will also be analyzing EP40 with Kuz, Mik and AB... analyzing forward lines takes alot of time and work so i will just start from here (this took 5 hours)... first I will display 6 graphs that displays corsi,Dangerous shots and goals for VS quality of competition for the forwards and Defenceman...

 

 

 

 

TLDR: The graphs and charts "prove" what alot of us has been saying...Myers and OEL are being overpaid for their output. Hughes and EP are great players that improve everyone's performance whoever they play with. AB, Kuzmenko,Mikheyev, Schenn and Bear all have Huge boosts when playing with these players... our second third and 4th line are all getting out shot, out chanced, and out scored... every non quinn hughes D line is generally... getting out shot out chanced and out scored, except for a few 4th line or bottom 9 opponents...

 

when garland and podkolzin play their line mates take the majority of shots, but still get out chanced and outscored... The data tends to point that OEL, Stillman and Burroughs make alot of errors in their end... the data tends to point that either Dries boeser and miller are making mistakes defensively or are having hard times getting chances to score in high danger areas and converting those chances.... The data also "proves" that the goalies are under performing... the GF% compared to the corsi and DFF% shows that their is a significant drop in GF% across the entire team, which in my opinion is directly and mostly related to the goaltenders performance...

 

                                                                      Graphs: all Even Strength

 

 

 

*please note that for out players that have played 20 or less games we should not be putting too much thought into the GF%... Luck is a major factor in hockey and yes that means Pearson too.

 

Forwards - x axis- Dangerous fenwick shots %.... AKA shots from high scoring areas... when on the ice they get more/less VS- Y-axis- Quality of competition

 

EP40 and Kuzmenko get the most scoring chances and out perform the competition... and all though not enough significant data... Lockwood Di-Guiseppe and AB have promising results

 

 

Forwards - x axis- Corsi  %.... AKA all shots on the net (including missed shots, blocked shots, saves, goals)... when on the ice they get more/less VS- Y-axis- Quality of competition

 

A little different from the Dangerous shots, we can see here that as we all know that Garland and podkolzin fire from everywhere... and usually are controlling the play when on the ice, but they are just not getting off quality chances... we can also see that Lockwood dropped off compared to Dangerous shots.... JT Miller horvat, Dries, Mikheyev,Boeser where about equal with their competition on shots on net, but were way behind for dangerous shots... AB, Kuzmenko. Di Guiseppe and EP are controlling the play and getting off dangerous chances

 

 

Forwards - x axis- goal for  %... when on the ice they get more/less VS- Y-axis- Quality of competition

 

We can see here that our GF% for pretty much all our forwards drop off compared to the dangerous shots except Garland,Mikheyev and Horvat actually improved. Podkolzin, EP, Kuzmenko stayed about the same and everyone else dropped compared to Dangerous chances... What this means is that either our goalies are being out performed or our forwards are not converting their chances... except for Mikheyev,EP,Kuzmenko and Horvat who are Burying their chances... Garland is scoring by just shooting ALOT if we had a better goalie he would likely move into the positive...

 

Defense - x axis- Dangerous fenwick shots %.... AKA shots from high scoring areas... when on the ice they get more/less VS- Y-axis- Quality of competition

 

Here we can see... our team sucks... Bear playing as a 5th defenseman is the only defender that is outplaying the competition, Even when hughes is on the ice we are giving up more High scoring chances (this has alot to do with having 2 4th lines for most of the season) and Yes Schenn is being carried by hughes (more on that later, yikes) Suprisingly OEL and Myers do not have terrible numbers here... to me this says they are doing an average job... especially considering our 4th lines... regardless though they are doing a similar job that defenders making 4-5 million do, so its a fail.

 

 

Defense - x axis- Corsi  %.... AKA all shots on the net (including missed shots, blocked shots, saves, goals)... when on the ice they get more/less VS- Y-axis- Quality of competition

 

This graph looks almost the exact same except for Hughes... when hughes is on the ice we are outshooting the opponent... the fact that his dangerous shots drop compared to corsi likely is a result of the two 4th lines we are playing with... we can see small improvements from OEL,stillman and myers here... everyone else stayed constant...and the fact than Schenns numbers didnt improve along with Hughes shows that when Hughes is playing with other defenceman he is starting in the Ozone

 

 

Defense - x axis- goal for  %... when on the ice they get more/less VS- Y-axis- Quality of competition

 

Scary right? here we see that our goalies are being out performed...... yikes.... and or our forwards are not burying their chances... which i say is true, but not as significant.

we can also see that yes our eye tests are right OEL,Stillman and Burroughs are making gaffs in their own zone (they had a much higher drop off comparably to their line mates)

 

Hughes is elite... this graph shows that... this graph along with the corsi and DFF% shows that he creates scoring chances that are not normally in area that are typical of DFF%

the fact that the DFF% is his lowest stat and then the corsi improves on that and then the GF% improves on that shows this... Hughes is amazing. 52% corsi >58% GF

Schenn did improve his corsi to go along with hughes but not at the same rate 46% > 51% I will show later that Schenn and hughes are used in the dzone quite commonly

 

 

Thats it for the charts... its not just our dmen... we need to improve our 4th and 3rd line.... BUT!!! lets see how our D pairings are performing under tocchet... we have the technology!

 

Here is the website i use to collect all this data and build these charts....

 

Little Glossary

EVTOI: even stregtn Time on ice

CF%: Corsi for %

CF%RC :the difference of corsi% relative to their team mates

DFF%: Dangerous scoring chances

GF% :goal for %

ONSH%: on ice shooting percentage of teammates

ONSV%: on ice save percentage of teammates

PDO: the combined score of ONSV% and ONSH% 1000 is considered break even

OZS%: the % of faceoffs taken in the ozone

GF: goals for

GA : Goals Against

 

 

of course schenn vs Hughes first... please note that this does include 3vs3 stats...

 

Well its no surprise Hughes and schenn complement each other... despite their overwhelmingly defensive zone starts they pretty much improve across the board when playing with each other but the notable thing i see is the GF% for schenn when he is not playing with hughes... he gets scored on ALOT without Hughes, mean while Hughes is still succeeding. Proof that hughes helps schenns game.

 

Players	WMTier	EVTOI	CF%	CF%RC	DFF%	DFF%RC	GF%	ONSH%	ONSV%	PDO	OZS%	GF	GA
Quinn Hughes without Luke Schenn	Elite	127.70	52.20	9.82	51.00	10.11	58.80	11.36	88.71	1,001.00	49.28	10.00	7.00
Luke Schenn without Quinn Hughes	Elite	86.13	46.30	2.41	48.80	6.66	33.30	5.26	90.48	957.00	36.00	2.00	4.00
Luke Schenn with Quinn Hughes	Elite	146.83	39.90	-5.35	36.70	-7.59	66.70	14.04	95.56	1,096.00	34.95	8.00	4.00
Luke Schenn and Quinn Hughes both off	Elite	380.53	42.50	-3.31	40.60	-4.63	38.50	8.82	89.38	982.00	40.32	15.00	24.00
Quinn Hughes without Luke Schenn	Middle	164.50	58.40	9.87	53.80	7.71	47.10	9.09	85.94	950.00	66.30	8.00	9.00
Luke Schenn without Quinn Hughes	Middle	87.27	47.50	-3.32	47.30	-0.22	28.60	4.44	89.80	942.00	43.90	2.00	5.00
Luke Schenn with Quinn Hughes	Middle	151.18	47.60	-3.44	46.50	-1.19	45.00	12.33	84.51	968.00	48.48	9.00	11.00
Luke Schenn and Quinn Hughes both off	Middle	408.05	49.10	-2.60	45.70	-3.77	37.50	5.85	90.48	963.00	47.21	12.00	20.00
Quinn Hughes without Luke Schenn	Gritensity	173.88	60.20	10.42	52.90	1.18	61.10	12.64	89.71	1,023.00	69.14	11.00	7.00
Luke Schenn without Quinn Hughes	Gritensity	111.37	44.30	-8.89	40.30	-13.82	35.70	10.20	87.32	975.00	63.01	5.00	9.00
Luke Schenn with Quinn Hughes	Gritensity	144.42	51.20	-0.75	51.40	-0.66	78.60	16.92	95.31	1,122.00	54.76	11.00	3.00
Luke Schenn and Quinn Hughes both off	Gritensity	406.07	51.00	-1.55	55.50	6.91	39.50	8.29	85.64	939.00	52.94	17.00	26.00

 

Hughes and Bear Are used mostly in the Ozone which is good, because schenn seems to be much better defensively with hughes... But Bear and Hughes make up for that in the goal scoring department... They out score the opponent 1.6 : 1 GF compared with schenn 1.55 : 1 ....very similar but a small improvement...

 

Team	Players	EVTOI	CF%	CF%RC	DFF%	DFF%RC	GF%	ONSH%	ONSV%	PDO	OZS%	GF	GA
VAN	Quintin Hughes without Ethan Bear	160.7833333	43.8	0.2516129032	43.2	-0.2911660777	61.5	9.87654321	94.50549451	1044	36.19047619	8	5
VAN	Ethan Bear without Quintin Hughes	118.5333333	45.5	2.271397616	46.5	3.762889879	36.4	8.163265306	88.33333333	965	41.25	4	7
VAN	Ethan Bear with Quintin Hughes	57.61666667	50.9	8.028810226	53.3	10.98159666	42.9	7.894736842	84.61538462	925	50	3	4
VAN	Ethan Bear and Quintin Hughes both off	266.7	41.2	-4.385874799	40.2	-5.996911197	34.5	8.547008547	88.88888889	974	39.63414634	10	19
VAN	Quintin Hughes without Ethan Bear	161.2	52.2	3.697005988	50.1	5.509123823	40.9	10	82.89473684	929	52.22222222	9	13
VAN	Ethan Bear without Quintin Hughes	136.5166667	47.6	-2.344629014	43.2	-3.637725381	42.9	4.054054054	94.20289855	983	48.7804878	3	4
VAN	Ethan Bear with Quintin Hughes	82.83333333	53.7	4.804417671	44	-2.243120364	66.7	15	90.625	1056	59.01639344	6	3
VAN	Ethan Bear and Quintin Hughes both off	256.25	47.4	-3.506344411	45.5	-0.8648076569	39.3	9.482758621	87.5	970	41.73228346	11	17
VAN	Quintin Hughes without Ethan Bear	186.35	50.3	-2.299388379	46.7	-6.941276377	76.5	16.4556962	95.40229885	1119	53.125	13	4
VAN	Ethan Bear without Quintin Hughes	158.15	48	-5.106796117	56.5	5.66739702	35.7	5.952380952	87.32394366	933	52.38095238	5	9
VAN	Ethan Bear with Quintin Hughes	102.15	67.7	17.8300954	64	13.61849192	70	11.86440678	90.625	1025	74.07407407	7	3
VAN	Ethan Bear and Quintin Hughes both off	313.3166667	50.6	-2.455916775	49.4	-4.68323176	37.1	8.843537415	86.16352201	950	57.8313253	13	22

 

 

OEL and Myers         What a terrible pairing... when they play together they create the ultimate tank pairing... Boudreau trusted hughes and schenn more in our dzone with the elite players and utilized oel and myers for dzone starts with the bottom 9 competition.... and they were terrible... they were outscored 1.8 : 1 Outshot and out chanced by big margins...

 

Players	WMTier	EVTOI	CF%	CF%RC	DFF%	DFF%RC	GF%	ONSH%	ONSV%	PDO	OZS%	FO/60	GF	GA
Oliver Ekman-Larsson without Tyler Myers	Elite	119.77	48.80	6.62	48.30	7.70	42.90	11.11	87.30	984.00	47.56	59.11	6.00	8.00
Tyler Myers without Oliver Ekman-Larsson	Elite	134.97	46.20	3.69	44.60	3.49	46.20	8.33	91.25	996.00	31.88	42.68	6.00	7.00
Tyler Myers with Oliver Ekman-Larsson	Elite	163.88	39.30	-5.09	36.20	-7.36	45.00	11.84	89.62	1,015.00	46.55	68.83	9.00	11.00
Tyler Myers and Oliver Ekman-Larsson both off	Elite	300.07	41.80	-2.42	41.00	-1.40	45.80	8.46	92.07	1,005.00	35.64	57.59	11.00	13.00
Oliver Ekman-Larsson without Tyler Myers	Middle	157.78	50.00	1.34	47.90	1.21	43.80	8.24	89.41	976.00	41.94	55.52	7.00	9.00
Tyler Myers without Oliver Ekman-Larsson	Middle	153.37	52.60	4.48	54.20	8.81	50.00	10.00	88.06	981.00	48.15	34.43	8.00	8.00
Tyler Myers with Oliver Ekman-Larsson	Middle	159.30	46.70	-2.70	40.90	-7.44	20.00	2.90	90.80	937.00	37.86	63.28	2.00	8.00
Tyler Myers and Oliver Ekman-Larsson both off	Middle	391.62	48.00	-1.70	46.30	-1.09	45.20	10.22	87.15	974.00	55.41	54.24	19.00	23.00
Oliver Ekman-Larsson without Tyler Myers	Gritensity	160.83	49.20	-2.51	50.60	-1.01	41.20	8.97	88.24	972.00	54.81	60.81	7.00	10.00
Tyler Myers without Oliver Ekman-Larsson	Gritensity	199.07	52.10	1.15	51.20	-0.28	50.00	10.87	89.13	1,000.00	60.67	43.70	10.00	10.00
Tyler Myers with Oliver Ekman-Larsson	Gritensity	93.82	48.40	-3.14	53.90	2.79	33.30	9.09	82.61	917.00	50.00	47.33	4.00	8.00
Tyler Myers and Oliver Ekman-Larsson both off	Gritensity	412.47	52.30	2.04	51.30	-0.20	53.80	10.40	90.32	1,007.00	58.90	54.26	21.00	18.00

 

OEL and Schenn not really enough data to go by but we will do our best... Used about 50/50 Ozone and mostly with the bottom 9... they were Outshot, out chanced, Outscored @ 1.6:1

 

Players	WMTier	EVTOI	CF%	CF%RC	DFF%	DFF%RC	GF%	ONSH%	ONSV%	PDO	OZS%	GF	GA
Oliver Ekman-Larsson without Luke Schenn	Elite	262.93	43.60	0.02	41.20	-1.87	45.50	12.50	88.00	1,005.00	46.03	15.00	18.00
Luke Schenn without Oliver Ekman-Larsson	Elite	199.55	40.10	-4.69	39.60	-3.70	52.90	11.84	92.79	1,046.00	32.31	9.00	8.00
Luke Schenn with Oliver Ekman-Larsson	Elite	35.77	45.20	1.70	45.50	3.26	50.00	5.88	95.45	1,013.00	45.83	1.00	1.00
Luke Schenn and Oliver Ekman-Larsson both off	Elite	266.55	45.80	3.48	44.90	3.96	45.80	7.64	91.16	988.00	38.13	11.00	13.00
Oliver Ekman-Larsson without Luke Schenn	Middle	282.57	48.30	-1.52	43.30	-5.95	31.80	5.15	90.57	957.00	44.26	7.00	15.00
Luke Schenn without Oliver Ekman-Larsson	Middle	228.37	47.30	-2.74	49.00	2.22	50.00	12.15	88.07	1,002.00	49.24	13.00	13.00
Luke Schenn with Oliver Ekman-Larsson	Middle	48.00	49.00	-0.38	51.20	4.11	25.00	3.85	88.89	927.00	37.04	1.00	3.00
Luke Schenn and Oliver Ekman-Larsson both off	Middle	337.90	51.70	3.71	49.10	2.83	44.80	7.60	89.04	966.00	59.88	13.00	16.00
Oliver Ekman-Larsson without Luke Schenn	Gritensity	212.53	50.90	-0.30	57.30	8.00	34.80	7.27	85.15	924.00	48.03	8.00	15.00
Luke Schenn without Oliver Ekman-Larsson	Gritensity	222.43	49.40	-2.39	49.50	-2.56	57.10	11.11	92.17	1,033.00	54.74	12.00	9.00
Luke Schenn with Oliver Ekman-Larsson	Gritensity	45.20	41.20	-10.53	28.60	-24.08	42.90	21.43	86.67	1,081.00	72.41	3.00	4.00
Luke Schenn and Oliver Ekman-Larsson both off	Gritensity	394.65	53.70	4.45	52.00	1.09	51.30	10.70	88.55	992.00	62.43	20.00	19.00

 

Myers and Stillman definitely used as the third pairing mainly used in the defensive end vs elite and offensive zone vs 4th liners... they get outplayed bad vs the elite and hold their own vs the bottom 9... they are outscored  1.1 : 1 not really sure who two dmen to compare them to... this would be satisfactory but... 7.7 million on your bottom pairing? no bueno!

 

Players	WMTier	EVTOI	CF%	CF%RC	DFF%	DFF%RC	GF%	ONSH%	ONSV%	PDO	OZS%	GF	GA
Tyler Myers without Riley Stillman	Elite	100.75	46.40	3.49	45.50	6.80	69.20	15.25	93.22	1,085.00	47.83	9.00	4.00
Riley Stillman without Tyler Myers	Elite	58.53	45.10	1.51	44.90	5.24	0.00	0.00	89.66	897.00	32.43	0.00	3.00
Riley Stillman with Tyler Myers	Elite	51.45	35.80	-9.31	31.20	-10.76	20.00	5.00	90.00	950.00	36.67	1.00	4.00
Riley Stillman and Tyler Myers both off	Elite	183.63	44.30	0.93	38.80	-3.02	44.40	9.88	90.83	1,007.00	44.88	8.00	10.00
Tyler Myers without Riley Stillman	Middle	95.23	53.80	3.00	51.10	4.62	11.10	1.89	82.22	841.00	38.18	1.00	8.00
Riley Stillman without Tyler Myers	Middle	50.62	43.90	-8.70	35.30	-14.64	14.30	4.17	82.86	870.00	45.83	1.00	6.00
Riley Stillman with Tyler Myers	Middle	64.65	54.70	3.76	51.00	4.06	70.00	20.59	88.46	1,090.00	51.85	7.00	3.00
Riley Stillman and Tyler Myers both off	Middle	232.45	51.60	0.30	49.10	3.12	52.00	10.32	88.57	989.00	51.66	13.00	12.00
Tyler Myers without Riley Stillman	Gritensity	73.47	47.90	-5.50	52.40	1.15	66.70	12.50	94.12	1,066.00	60.61	4.00	2.00
Riley Stillman without Tyler Myers	Gritensity	58.92	42.90	-11.27	41.00	-12.11	42.90	11.11	87.88	990.00	36.00	3.00	4.00
Riley Stillman with Tyler Myers	Gritensity	94.47	55.40	3.47	54.00	3.13	37.50	7.32	87.80	951.00	61.22	3.00	5.00
Riley Stillman and Tyler Myers both off	Gritensity	243.18	55.50	6.16	53.00	3.17	48.00	9.92	88.07	980.00	63.23	12.00	13.00

 

 

BUT!!!! it seems all the pairings has improved! and thats promising! lets check out EP and his line mates!

 

EP and Kuzmenko these guys are great! They out shoot, out chance, out score  1.33 : 1  ... not very good in their own zone but thats ok... considering this is the only line scoring you can see why we are so bad... if not for EP and Hughes Yikes!

 

Players	WMTier	EVTOI	CF%	CF%RC	DFF%	DFF%RC	GF%	ONSH%	ONSV%	PDO	OZS%	GF	GA
Elias Pettersson without Andrei Kuzmenko	Elite	90.07	41.40	-2.80	39.70	-2.82	25.00	5.13	89.29	944.00	40.91	2.00	6.00
Andrei Kuzmenko without Elias Pettersson	Elite	34.18	48.30	4.61	51.10	9.34	75.00	15.79	92.86	1,086.00	54.55	3.00	1.00
Andrei Kuzmenko with Elias Pettersson	Elite	146.65	50.00	7.53	52.80	13.05	53.30	10.00	90.00	1,000.00	40.38	8.00	7.00
Andrei Kuzmenko and Elias Pettersson both off	Elite	494.62	42.30	-4.54	39.00	-8.86	46.90	10.31	91.13	1,014.00	39.38	23.00	26.00
Elias Pettersson without Andrei Kuzmenko	Middle	75.33	48.30	-0.74	44.80	-2.35	63.60	22.58	85.71	1,083.00	58.54	7.00	4.00
Andrei Kuzmenko without Elias Pettersson	Middle	77.07	48.10	-0.96	41.40	-6.03	37.50	9.38	85.71	951.00	54.84	3.00	5.00
Andrei Kuzmenko with Elias Pettersson	Middle	181.03	56.20	9.10	60.70	17.35	60.90	14.58	87.50	1,021.00	62.00	14.00	9.00
Andrei Kuzmenko and Elias Pettersson both off	Middle	566.18	46.80	-6.00	43.40	-9.94	30.40	4.95	89.68	946.00	45.24	14.00	32.00
Elias Pettersson without Andrei Kuzmenko	Gritensity	66.37	47.60	-4.02	47.80	-3.95	33.30	7.14	88.24	954.00	64.29	2.00	4.00
Andrei Kuzmenko without Elias Pettersson	Gritensity	65.73	56.20	5.23	47.70	-4.08	40.00	8.70	88.00	967.00	50.00	2.00	3.00
Andrei Kuzmenko with Elias Pettersson	Gritensity	127.93	51.00	-0.39	53.40	2.39	56.00	18.92	85.90	1,048.00	54.55	14.00	11.00
Andrei Kuzmenko and Elias Pettersson both off	Gritensity	566.73	51.30	-0.05	51.70	0.64	51.00	9.32	90.08	994.00	58.75	26.00	25.00

 

EP and Mikheyev... Mikheyev is used more defensively then Kuzmenko with more time vs the elite... they destroy the 4th liners and do ok vs the top 9... maybe has something to do with his injury... they Out shoot, out chance, out score the bottom 9 and the elite give them troubles... They outscore the competition 1.5 : 1

 

Players	WMTier	EVTOI	CF%	CF%RC	DFF%	DFF%RC	GF%	ONSH%	ONSV%	PDO	OZS%	GF	GA
Elias Pettersson without Ilya Mikheyev	Elite	97.13	45.90	4.27	48.80	9.80	54.50	11.54	91.38	1,029.00	40.32	6.00	5.00
Ilya Mikheyev without Elias Pettersson	Elite	68.50	41.30	-1.07	36.90	-4.08	81.80	30.00	95.00	1,250.00	45.95	9.00	2.00
Ilya Mikheyev with Elias Pettersson	Elite	115.50	43.30	1.26	42.80	2.73	25.00	4.00	89.83	938.00	39.19	2.00	6.00
Ilya Mikheyev and Elias Pettersson both off	Elite	389.53	41.20	-2.55	38.30	-5.07	35.30	7.06	90.64	977.00	37.92	12.00	22.00
Elias Pettersson without Ilya Mikheyev	Middle	104.63	55.70	7.83	54.00	7.75	71.40	10.87	95.24	1,061.00	61.40	5.00	2.00
Ilya Mikheyev without Elias Pettersson	Middle	104.08	43.30	-6.57	42.00	-6.18	16.70	2.22	91.94	942.00	39.62	1.00	5.00
Ilya Mikheyev with Elias Pettersson	Middle	110.05	49.70	0.89	57.20	11.67	57.90	20.37	80.95	1,013.00	58.00	11.00	8.00
Ilya Mikheyev and Elias Pettersson both off	Middle	432.23	48.60	-0.87	44.40	-6.71	37.80	6.17	89.69	959.00	45.35	14.00	23.00
Elias Pettersson without Ilya Mikheyev	Gritensity	83.27	47.60	-2.58	46.60	-4.31	41.70	10.87	86.00	969.00	51.11	5.00	7.00
Ilya Mikheyev without Elias Pettersson	Gritensity	114.88	54.00	4.77	48.60	-2.04	46.20	10.53	84.78	953.00	58.18	6.00	7.00
Ilya Mikheyev with Elias Pettersson	Gritensity	78.90	47.00	-3.27	53.80	3.91	71.40	25.00	91.49	1,165.00	51.16	10.00	4.00
Ilya Mikheyev and Elias Pettersson both off	Gritensity	449.78	49.90	0.11	50.90	1.39	47.20	8.10	91.08	992.00	56.82	17.00	19.00

 

EP and AB Way too little to go off here.... especially the goals... but they are out shooting and out chancing the competition

 

Players	RecordType	EVTOI	CF%	CF%RC	DFF%	DFF%RC	GF%	ONSH%	ONSV%	PDO	OZS%	GF	GA
Elias Pettersson without Anthony Beauvillier	Elite	1.20	50.00	-5.66	67.30	13.89		0.00	100.00	1,000.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
Anthony Beauvillier without Elias Pettersson	Elite	2.43	50.00	-5.66	63.30	9.47		0.00	100.00	1,000.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
Anthony Beauvillier with Elias Pettersson	Elite	14.92	48.40	-9.83	47.80	-9.50	0.00	0.00	80.00	800.00	45.45	0.00	2.00
Anthony Beauvillier and Elias Pettersson both off	Elite	37.88	59.20	10.48	56.10	4.70	60.00	11.11	87.50	986.00	57.14	3.00	2.00
Elias Pettersson without Anthony Beauvillier	Middle	2.68	0.00	-47.33	0.00	-42.16	0.00	100.00	0.00	1,000.00	100.00	0.00	1.00
Anthony Beauvillier without Elias Pettersson	Middle	4.35	54.50	8.07	76.70	36.87	50.00	50.00	0.00	500.00	0.00	1.00	1.00
Anthony Beauvillier with Elias Pettersson	Middle	26.53	58.80	17.80	53.90	16.43	66.70	23.53	75.00	985.00	57.14	4.00	2.00
Anthony Beauvillier and Elias Pettersson both off	Middle	58.18	39.80	-17.34	34.30	-22.78	16.70	4.35	83.87	882.00	40.74	1.00	5.00
Elias Pettersson without Anthony Beauvillier	Gritensity	5.17	66.70	4.28	76.90	17.94		0.00	100.00	1,000.00	100.00	0.00	0.00
Anthony Beauvillier without Elias Pettersson	Gritensity	2.37	100.00	38.13	100.00	41.88		0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
Anthony Beauvillier with Elias Pettersson	Gritensity	24.28	61.50	-1.40	57.30	-3.13	20.00	9.09	66.67	758.00	78.57	1.00	4.00
Anthony Beauvillier and Elias Pettersson both off	Gritensity	67.87	61.70	-2.88	57.70	-5.12	60.00	8.82	90.91	997.00	64.86	3.00	2.00

[[PGT] New York Rangers at Vancouver Canucks | Feb. 15, 2023]

1 hour ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I didn't think we had a chance to compete with Arizona in the tank battle. Happy to be proven wrong on that one but still a long way to go.  

arizona was a winning team the first 15 games... maybe they are turning a corner and abandoning their tank

[[PGT] New York Rangers at Vancouver Canucks | Feb. 15, 2023]

2 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

If people were paying attention during the pre/post games in the last week ... Tocchet even said Kuz is all about learning and understanding exactly this.

 

There never was an issue. 

im so happy we signed him... this is the type of player we need

[[PGT] New York Rangers at Vancouver Canucks | Feb. 15, 2023]

2 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

well thats a lie... did this guy ever hear of the 80's.. i think 81/82 there was an avg of 8.12 goals per game

[[PGT] New York Rangers at Vancouver Canucks | Feb. 15, 2023]

6 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

[[PGT] New York Rangers at Vancouver Canucks | Feb. 15, 2023]

I crashed my car into the bridge, I watched and just let it burn.... I Love it! I Don't Care!

 

 

[[GDT] Wednesday February 15 2023 - Vancouver Canucks vs New York Rangers - 7pm PT/10pm ET - Vancouver]

3 minutes ago, OldFaithfulCap said:

The Canucks haven't won back to back games in 2023.

 

In 2023:

-the canucks have 5 wins

-ducks have 7 wins

-coyotes have 6 wins

-Bjs have 5 wins

-Sharks have 6 wins

 

We'll see how it goes tonight, but we're tanking with the best of them

 

We can't Stop, And we Won't stop...

 

 

[[GDT] Wednesday February 15 2023 - Vancouver Canucks vs New York Rangers - 7pm PT/10pm ET - Vancouver]

1 minute ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Please don't tie or win this.  We're  currently tied with ARZ at 27/28th and they have a game in in hand and SJ is just one point below us at 29th.   

 

Things are looking down for us - keep up the bad work boyz!

 

[[GDT] Wednesday February 15 2023 - Vancouver Canucks vs New York Rangers - 7pm PT/10pm ET - Vancouver]

I dont like to think we are a bad team, we are a good team that just have been having an unusual amount of bad bounces... it happens......

[[GDT] Wednesday February 15 2023 - Vancouver Canucks vs New York Rangers - 7pm PT/10pm ET - Vancouver]

1 minute ago, Barnstorm said:

Denial isn’t just a river in Africa. 

 

Join Me Brothers and Sisters, this is the way...

[[GDT] Wednesday February 15 2023 - Vancouver Canucks vs New York Rangers - 7pm PT/10pm ET - Vancouver]

i dont like saying we are the 5th worst in the league, I prefer to say we are the 6th best in the pacific

[[Proposal] VAN and DAL]

I agree this is a good proposal,

 

I think it would be a good idea to definitely call them and at least discuss the possibility of aquiring Khudobin.... let them know that we are looking to trade a forward first but if it falls through we be willing to make a trade...

 

I like the thought of trading Boeser @50% +schenn for Khubodin + Hakanpaa/Miller plus a value of picks.... that could be another starting point...

 

I will admit im a bit of a homer for Hakanpaa though... 

[[Rumour] Canucks Getting Calls on Luke Schenn]

12 minutes ago, wildcam said:

Serious Schenn 33 - can fight, slow -- not going to get better. sure he has won a cup and can fight? I would still rather have the 27 year old D man that can play 22 minutes ..

Gavrikov 27 - 6'3 -220 lbs - plays 22.00 minutes most games a much better player then Schenn..

Trade Schenn before he gets hurt, 2nd rounder or prospect..... Vancouver will be bottom half of league 16th--22nd next season again..

we should trade Schenn for Gavrikov.. some are saying they are worth the same amount...

 

I would make that trade instantly.... try and sign him... if not flip him..

 

 

[[Rumour] Canucks Getting Calls on Luke Schenn]

7 hours ago, coryberg said:

 

He was most definitely a top 4 dman to start his career. Are you 12?

 

am i 12? well, my body says no... Im a bearded wrinkly man with a body that looks like a translucent frumpy beanbag... But my mind age.... well its complicated... some days i feel ancient with my old outdated views...like for instance... treat others the way you would want to be treated... and i think 12 year olds and i have a lot of similar view too.... Corn is amazing! the different spelling's of your and you're are not important, and that putting a cop uniform on and pretending to be a cop doesn't make you a cop... its just make believe...

 

7 hours ago, coryberg said:

Quinn is a top 5 dman in the league? Can I see your list?

 

for this Year? yes... you can see my list.

 

in no particular order.... Hughes, Fox, Dahlin, Karlsson, and im likely gonna get torn a new one for this name but Hronek

 

7 hours ago, coryberg said:

8th defenseman on one of the deepest teams of the last 20 years. He played 10 of 25 games and 8 of 23. How many games do you think gavrikov would have got on that DCore?

 

well 9th in 2019 7th in 2020... fine well go with 8th.... but if you combine those 2 teams he ranks 9th in GP and TOI...

 

I think Gavrikov would have gotten exactly "more games then Schenn" 

7 hours ago, coryberg said:

As for being lucky to get his name on the cup. He met the requirements there is no luck in it. It isn't a lottery.

Im not sure how to respond to this without sounding like a jerk... I'm not a believer in destiny... and it basically is a lottery if you are a defenseman in the NHL... the further down the chart you are, the less likely you will get your name on the cup... schenn did not meet 1/2 requirements for each season, and some players higher up the depth chart didnt get their name engraved... Like Coburn... Hockey is all about luck,,, and it was very lucky that he got his name on both years...

 

7 hours ago, coryberg said:

According to hockeyreference.com schenn has 38.6% Ozone starts and 61.4% Dzone starts this season.

 

 

What time line are you living in... in my timeline... according to hockeyreference.com Schenn has 46.5% Ozone starts... Click on this link maybe you can go through space and time and see that i was not lying...  https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/schenlu01.html

 

7 hours ago, coryberg said:

Funny thing is I never said schenn had more value (id be happy with a 3rd+4th)  just showed some numbers and said there is no way gavrikov goes for his rumoured ask (1st,3rd+4th). Definitely not worth stretching the truth and getting buthurt over, he definitely isn't worth an extra 1st in one of the deepest drafts ever.

Yes, you didn't.. I did...kinda... I think he is worth a 1st and will likely return a cap dump... and that the ++ depends on the cap dump coming back.. and i'm arguing he is a top 4 defenseman... i have also been arguing that many fans here are upset that schenn is being rumored to being shopped below a 2nd and a first... so much so that they get upset and bring up Gavrikov like they are correlated some how...

[[Rumour] Canucks Getting Calls on Luke Schenn]

1 hour ago, coryberg said:

Schenn has almost double the points, five times the hits and is 13 plus minus rungs above Gavrikov despite playing 5 minutes less a night in similar deployment. Schenn also makes 3 times less, can fight and has 2 cup rings.

 

No way gavrikov goes for the rumoured ask.

Schenn is also playing with a top 5 defenceman in the league.... gavrikov is the best defenceman on the worst team in the league... if schenn was playing gavrikovs role he'd be a - player and also struggling to score... hed likely be much lower in the +/- dept.

 

Schenn was the TBL 9th defenceman on those cup winning teams... and played the least amount of games and averaging 10 minutes a game... Frankly he was lucky to have his name engraved on both years.. Colorado only used 7 defenceman last year and Girard barely got his name engraved...

 

as for the points gavrikov is used mainly as a shutdown defenceman with 37% ozone starts, schenn is at 47% ozone starts... and also factor in that CBJ have scored 25% less goals.. and again Schenn is playing with Hughes and OEL and gavrikov is playing with Peeke, Bjork and Gudbranson... if he got to play with Boqvist and Werenski more  this year hed likely be scoring at the same pace as his career year of 33 points.

 

Context is everything... Hockey is a team sport... schenn is not a top 4 defenceman now or ever... gavrikov has been a top 4 for 3 years.. taking Over for savard who was traded and played over schenn on TBL cup team... BTW savard had 6 points, was a -19 and was making 4.25 million when he was traded for a first... and just like Savard his salary can and will likely be retained... and the cost of maybe a 4th or 5th round pick you could get Gabrikovs salary down to league minimum.

 

schenn is too slow and historically very bad with making decisions with the puck on his stick... Gavrikov is much more agile then Schenn and has half as many turnovers per 60 then schenn.... thats the difference... Schenn would never be playing 22 minutes a game...

[[Rumour] Canucks Getting Calls on Luke Schenn]

well likely Gavrikov is traded within the next couple days... unless he was scratched for an injury today...

 

I think everyone is undervaluing gavrikov because it was reported Schenn was only offered for a 3rd +...

 

CDC has along history of over valuing their own players ... Ballard,Raymond, Motte and  Benn (who was a very similar player to Schenn minus the hit department) and now schenn and rathbone are the ones being overvalued ...

 

all i know is bear has stolen Schenns spot, the same Bear who was not good enough for Carolina, (maybe we stole Bear... i dont know)but, if Schenn is so good why is he only averaging 17 minutes on arguably the weakest D-corps in the league? IMO if we can get anything above a 3rd + return we should be thanking Hughes for it...

 

 

[[Rumour] Canucks Getting Calls on Luke Schenn]

13 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Would be perfect 3LD for us. Physical, solid defensively, excellent PK 'er, young'ish...

 

Doubt he gets a 1st ++ but he certainly has value for a lot of the same reasons Schenn has value.

Definitely agree he is being under valued on this board...

 

37% starts in the D-zone yet when on the ice his team has a respectable 46.3% corsi and a 39.3% GF%... considering his teammates and comparing vs the rest of the leagues shutdown d he has above average success... and when he controls the puck, he hardly turns it over.. I would say he is a 5th defenceman on a contender, possibly 4th for some teams... @50% retained he will likely get a 1st and the + or ++ will be determined by the cap dump coming back, surely...

 

Schenn is a different player and teams serious about a cup would want him for depth... he technically can play top 4... but he will require a player at least close to Hughes skill in exiting the zone, controlling the puck and skating speed... I could see why Boston might want him as hampus lindholm fits all those bills but likely is a 7th dman on that team... on calgary he is an immediate upgrade over Stone but still wont be more than a 6th on that team...

[[Proposal] Rebuild the defence]

6 minutes ago, Lewlowned said:

While I agree moving OEL is an important move for the team, I personally think a buyout is a waste. I personally think retaining the equivalent $$ you'd save in a trade is a better idea. Here's why:

 

Buyout Costs:

 

So, if we buyout OEL, we are paying at least $2.1m/year until 2031.

 

OEL has a $7.2m cap hit. If the Canucks retain $2.2m, it means he has a cap hit of $5m. That is a much more reasonable $$$ for OEL and what his play is currently. Still probably an overpay, but closer.

 

Retain: $2.2m x 4 years = $8.8m

Buyout: $2.1m - $4.7m x 8 years = $19.3m

 

Obviously this assumes the Canucks are able to trade him. But I'd rather him keep playing for a year or two until we can find a partner for a retained trade than have $2m of dead cap space until 2031.

heck you could retain 3 million and it would be the same savings over the first 4 years vs the buyout... and if hes bought out down the road even better...

 

if he is traded then bought out anyways 2 years down the road

we would have 2 years of cap of 1.727m and 2 years of  636k at 3 million retained... a total of 10.73m... a savings of almost 10 million vs buyout

we would have 2 years of cap of 1.26m and 2 years of 466k at 2.2 million retained.. a total of 7.86m... a savings of almost 13 million vs buyout

 

but both options are better than buying him out on our dime...

[Rangers’ Pride Night goes sideways and Chicago Blackhawks refuse to wear pride jerseys]

1 minute ago, Shayster007 said:

You stereotyped an entire community, including members of the community that aren't even Trans, based off 1 article, and you're still going to try to defend it?

 

Please, tell us about how smart you are some more.  

No im not... this is the majority of the community

 

try to find a source that proves me otherwise

[Rangers’ Pride Night goes sideways and Chicago Blackhawks refuse to wear pride jerseys]

1 minute ago, Bad_BOI_pete said:

oh... you think its one person... hold my beer...

this is a LGBTQ news source.. https://www.advocate.com/commentary/2019/12/14/refusing-date-trans-people-transphobic

 

https://medium.com/@QSE/when-you-say-i-would-never-date-a-trans-person-its-transphobic-here-s-why-aa6fdcf59aca

 

https://nationalfile.com/its-now-transphobia-to-refuse-to-date-trans-people-say-twitter-experts/

 

how many sources do you require?

 

 

[Rangers’ Pride Night goes sideways and Chicago Blackhawks refuse to wear pride jerseys]

3 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

No, because you took one person opinion from one study and then declared that as the opinion of entire LGBTQ community. That's an ignoarant stereotyping of an entire community of diverse people base off one article. That's literally the reason why this is an issue is because people do things as befuddling as that.

oh... you think its one person... hold my beer...

[Rangers’ Pride Night goes sideways and Chicago Blackhawks refuse to wear pride jerseys]

Just now, Shayster007 said:

Transphobia has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.

why because it doesn't fit your narrative? This is certainly up for debate... outcasting people is not OK

 

yes trans people are part of the LGBTQ community... and the fact that they blackmail society into being attracted to the group or you are a bigot...

 

this sets a tone of a surprise, surprise... shame... some may not support these actions... some would say this is unsupportable conduct.

 

some people might want kids... their own kids... a cys gen male could never get his trans women wife pregnant... that is enough a reason for many to not want to date a trans person...

 

[Rangers’ Pride Night goes sideways and Chicago Blackhawks refuse to wear pride jerseys]

Just now, Bad_BOI_pete said:

Nope.. its true... ill make you eat those words for being an asshole...

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/study-sexual-preferences-transphobia-role-biological-sex/

 

 

[Rangers’ Pride Night goes sideways and Chicago Blackhawks refuse to wear pride jerseys]

34 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

What a ridiculous suggestion. In the past, these groups have been continually muted or discriminated against. Not focusing on race, etc etc, doesn't work. Society has tried it for the past 100 years or more.

they had their event... and the left chose to ruin it... 100% support is an ideology... the LGBTQ community is demanding that the straight community must date them, or a bigot.. not everyone has to support this group, this group is not without flaws... demanding support is the ridiculous thing... especially when they are not without flaws