qwijibo
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Posts posted by qwijibo
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4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:
This is debatable and only an opinion. More teams would be interested in a 200' centre who plays a complete game regardless of the cap hit. Also, Jack Hughes doesn't even know how to win a faceoff or kill penalties. So, he is not even a true centre. I would put BIG money on Petey getting a better return value as a complete centre than a 5'10" player who can't even win a faceoff, doesn't hit and doesn't block shots...
Hockeydb has Hughes at 5'11 - 175. So despite being 3" shorter that Pettersson he weights tge same. No need to try to make him sound smaller than he is
And Once again. He just turned 22. Pettersson's faceoff percentage at 21 was 44.3%. That's better than Hughes last season but still nothing to write home about. Pettersson's game has matured. Hughes will too. Do you think the kid is a finished product at 21?
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25 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:
The cap hit for sure is the real difference maker. If Petey is playing with Meier and Bratt and doesn't need to be concerned about defence because Hischier is on the 2nd line, then he is easily getting 120 points, maybe even more. If Jack is playing with Kuzmenko and Mikheyev and Miller has to be our defensive centre, is Jack really in a better position than he is now?
Jack got 99 points. Doesn't mean he will get any more than that. Matthews has already peaked at 106 points. Kaprizov peaked at 108 points. Last year he was on a pace for only 91 points. So, it's not a given that Jack will be a 120-point scorer in the future. We will see...
Pettersson scored 103 with a winger shooting at an unsustainable 27% accuracy on a system that by in large ignored defence. There's no guarantee Pettersson will ever top last season any more thsn there is that Hughes will . Saying a 21 year old has topped out his potential is just silly.
I'm not gonna get in a passing match about who's better or who could be better. The bottom line is Hughes has more TRADE VALUE due to his younger age and cheap contract.
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6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:
First off, Petey won the Calder. Jack did not. Second, Petey has been playing on a much inferior team. If Petey was on that New Jersey team he is probably getting 120 points. Third, Petey is much better defensively and is at the same level as Hischier in that regard.
Petey is a complete centre. He is Jack and Hischier combined into one player. Nobody is taking Jack over Petey.
Hughes put up 99 points as a 21 year old. Yes Pettersson is better ATM. But to assume Hughes is done refining his game as a kid who just turned 22 is myopic. Both players still haven't hit thier ceilings.
But Hughes is also signed to a very team friendly deal for 7 years. Even if Pettersson signs it's going to be for a lot more than $8m. Considering where he is already and adding in his contract I think most GM's would value Hughes over Pettersson
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6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:
Obviously, New Jersey does this only if they can sign Petey to an extension. Petey is a better player than Hughes. Offensively and defensively. We are talking about a potential 120-point player who can win the Selke. If he is on that New Jersey team, Petey might be able to win the scoring title. Podkolzin is a nice piece for New Jersey, he would literally be their biggest forward. I am actually high on D-Petey. I think he is an Edler clone. At the end of the day, it all depends on what New jersey thinks of our younger players and who they are high on. For all we know, they could really be in love with Podkolzin. He had 14 goals as a rookie, so there is alot of potential there.
If I am New Jersey, I probably am not trading the Hughes brothers right now, as there is no reason to. It's just a hypothetical trade at this point. I'm sure New Jersey thinks Luke can be a top pairing Dman so they will wait to develop him...
Hughes pretty much matched Petterssons point output this past year and he did it being 2 1/2 years younger. I think it's premature to declare EP40 the superior player when Hughes is 2 years behind in development.
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8 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:
Yeah. It sounds like it's nothing more than a rubber stamp situation now.
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He apparently already signed with Laval earlier this offseason. This trade just allows Montreal to sign him to a NHL contract if he does well enough to earn one
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5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:
I agree. Petey and Hronek would be $20 million in cap space next year. Jack and Luke would be only $9 million. And Jack is locked up for 7 more years at $8 million. Cap wise the trade doesn't even work.
For New Jersey to even consider it we'd have to give them Petey plus a bunch of younger players on ELC's. Something like Petey, Podkolzin and maybe D-Petey...
If you were NJ would you move the two Hughes brothers for an unsigned Pettersson and a bunch of underwhelming young players/prospects?
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17 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:
Wonder if they would take Petey and Hronek for Hughes x 2. They don't really need the rest of the stuff outside of Petey (unless we do Petey's + another decent asset like Lekkerimaki (UNLESS D-Petey really pops off, in which case perhaps we can trade them across) for Hughes x2).
Jack has more value than Pettersson. He's 2 1/2 years younger. Put up an 43 goals 99 points in 78 games and is locked up for another 7 years on onecof the best value contracts in the league. EP 40 is two years away from UFA status and if he does sign with the Canucks it'll be for substantially more than $8m a season
I can't see any circumstance where they'd move Hughes straight across for Pettersson, let alone swapping Luke for Hronek (who is far more expensive, has big question marks regarding his health and is also 2 years away from ufa status)
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17 minutes ago, Coconuts said:
Jersey says no
Yup. Immediately and unequivocally
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13 hours ago, Pears said:
Except Toffoli was just traded to New Jersey at the start of the summer so that’s not gonna happen. It was fun while it was a thing but it’s time we gotta let the Toffoli thing die.
But how about the Taffoli thing?
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7 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:All I’m going to say on the Pettersson contract concerns are this….
When everyone thought this guy was going to walk straight into free agency and sign in either ARZ or some big american city possibly a no tax state and pile on the dough and give the Canadian market a big F U like a typical american with a huge ego and all about money…. He remained in Toronto. Quit crying, Pettersson is an RFA at the end of next summer and we have plenty of time to work out an extension. Also if EP wants to talk about competing and going for a cup, he’d better be leaving some money on the table or he’s going against his own narrative. I firmly believe time with the twins and what their mindset was in 2011 to take a pay cut which triced down along pretty much that whole 2010-11 roster who left money on the table for the next guy and the next guy and so on… They will talk to EP will sign a deal that will benefit the team and leave cap space for the next guy….. i hope lmao… but seriously quit with the EP trade talks and all this other crap.
I'm not sure using Matthews as an example helps your argument. Matthews was/is on a very good team that has cup aspirations. The team he was rumored to be going to is crap and an absolute tire fire. And he certainly didn't leave any money on the table.
By comparison Pettersson has been on a team with little to no success during his tenure with the team. If wanting to be on a team with a chance to win is really his goal (and I'm not saying that's the case) then forcing his way out of town like PLD and Tkachuk seems like a possible tactic.
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36 minutes ago, flickyoursedin said:
Myers in a top role hurts us. Myers limited minutes on a bottom pairing is fine. Only problem is you don’t want to commit 6 million to a sheltered bottom pairing dman but it’s not like we could move him and add somebody different at this point. May as well keep him for the bottom pairing/pk1 role. If we’re out of it just him being a RHD you’d get a 2nd or 3rd round for him at the trade deadline.
You may want to lower your expectations. Jeff Petry, only returned a conditional 4th from Detroit.
Petry is a better player than Myers, is also a big right hand D, and his retained cap hit is only $2.34m
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1 hour ago, Canucks Curse said:
Yeah that’s what I thought but then other places said sept 1
but that explains why he’s still not traded
Or maybe, just maybe, there's no market for him at a $6m cap hit regardless of the actual dollars
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3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:
ESPN is projecting him to finish 3rd with 116 points. If the Canucks are making the playoffs then he most likely gets a lot of Selke votes, enough to push him to be a finalist. He could then be also a finalist for the Hart against the Edmonton bros. McDavid would then have to match his 153 points to keep the Hart trophy. Maybe he does. If he doesn’t it will be a wide open race.
As for the contract, at the end of the day it’s all about the money. Petey wants to bet on himself and if the above scenario happens then he is in the drivers seat. So the Canucks should just make him an offer he can’t refuse.
He might take 12x8 if it’s offered now. With the salary cap expected to hit $100 million in the next 3-4 years, I wouldn’t have an issue paying Petey $12 million.
Like I said. A lot of far fetchec ifs. Literally everything would have to go the Canucks way this season for all those things to happen. I'll throw some ifs at you. What if last season was an outlier and he comes back down to being a ppg guy? What if he misses some games due to injury and isn't in rhe top 10 in scoring? What if the Canucks miss the playoffs again (as the oddsmakers are predicting)?
He evidently wants to see what the team looks lime on the ice before signing any kind of extension. He can get paid no matter where he goes. What he wants is to play meaningful hockey
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4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:
If Petey hits 116 points and finishes 3rd in overall scoring plus the Canucks make the playoffs plus he is a finalist for the Selke, he could win the Hart trophy.
If that happens oh boy. He would be justified in asking for more than Matthews and become the highest paid player in the NHL.
Vancouver really needs to sign him now. Even if it’s only for 4 years that’s fine. At least we have him for 5 more years and we go for the cup.
That's a lot of far fetched ifs . Plus, you can't make him sign. He's stated he doesn't want to discuss a contract extension right now. What are they supposed to do?
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11 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:
Please stop using that term weaponized. There's no such thing. That would only be using gobs of cap space to do the stupid thing of making offer sheets.
Which is basically a GM committing career suicide. Montreal/Carolina being a recent example of not only failing to try and grab a player, but the team retaliated back and wound up stealing an important player from Montreal when they ran out of cap space. Having cap space means you have options at the trade deadline, or at the start of the season.
The Pittsburgh/Vancouver thing was a rumour. Nothing more.
Look at a team like Arizona. They had cap space. Did they "weaponize" it? Nope. Are you seeing Chicago and Anaheim doing anything with cap space?
Nope. May they take advantage of it at the start of the season? Yes. But I don't see Chicago or Anaheim making offer sheets. They might trade cap space for bad contracts and get more draft picks and accelerate the rebuilds.
To be fair. Montreal had the cap space to match the Kotkaniemi offer sheet. They just didn't feel he was worth $6.1 m
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2 minutes ago, EastCoastNucks said:
Yah, I disagree. Demko starting last year was obviously still affected, and ending the year was obviously healed. which is why I referred to him as OG Demko. Cause he is back, baybee.
Maybe. We'll see.
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11 minutes ago, EastCoastNucks said:
Spencer should be given the chance to play a quarter of the games he played last season. We can afford it with OG Demko back. Martin will play up on watching Demmers and we can actually trade Martin knowing who is down in Abby.
We dont need to shop for another knowing who is coming up between the pipe.
Time will tell which Demko Shows up this season. He could be great, but He still has an extensive injury history and could just as easily be terrible again.
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2 hours ago, Phil_314 said:
I think Schmid's earned his role (9-5-2, 2.13 GAA, 0.922 sv %).
If anything I'd try for Sam Montembeault (1 year left, $1 million). Maybe trade Martin + a pick? He started over Allen for stretches last season.
Alternatively, if we could make the cap work, DeSmith looks pretty good plus apparently he wants out of Montreal.
Montreal isn't moving Montembeault. Guaranteed. He's likely their 1A/B starter this season. He looked really good in the second half last season behind a rookie defense. If anything Montreal will look to move Allen, DeSmith or Primeau
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5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:
This is true. However, nobody is saying that Petey should be paid the same as the others. However, lots of people are saying that Matthews should be compared to McDavid, Draisaitl and MacKinnon.
If you take out Matthews outlier year he is not comparable to those guys, yet wants to be paid more than them.
Also, McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon and Pettersson all had career years last year. Matthews on the other hand regressed by 20 goals and 21 points.
PPG last year was as follows:
McDavid - 1.86
Draisaitl - 1.60
MacKinnon - 1.56
Petterson - 1.28
Matthews - 1.15
As you can see, McDavid, Draisaitl and MacKinnon are way above the other two in PPG last year. However, Petey is alot closer to them than Matthews. Same with the Hart trophy voting. Matthews was similar to Petey but way behind the other 3. Petey was way ahead of Matthews in the Selke voting as well.
Nobody is saying Petey should be paid the same as the big 3. But why is Matthews? Because of one outlier year? Matthews is an 85 point player of you take away one outlier year. So there is no justification for him to be the highest paid player in the league. Only reason he was able to accomplish that feat was because he screwed Toronto and had them by the balls. Now Nylander and Marner are both gonna do the same thing.
Nylander won’t be budging off his $10 million now. He actually had more points and same number of goals as Matthews last year. Marner will be looking for $14 million+. He was the better player last year, both offensively and defensively.
I never said I thought Matthews deserves to be paid what he's getting. Only pointed out the hypocrisy of disregarding his best season and calling him an 85 point player while using Pettersson's best season and calling him 102 point player.
I honestly have no idea where Pettersson's next contract will land. His current took 9% of the cap when signed. Matthews and the other players mentioned as a tier above are around 14% If he repeats last years numbers it's probably safe to assume he's not going to settle for 9% again.
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1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:
Petey is a 102 point player. Matthews is an 85 point player. Don’t care what Matthews did the year prior. If you are paying Matthews based on one anomaly year then you need to do the same thing with Petey.
Matthews regressed by 21 points from two years ago. His goals regressed from 60 to 40. Petey on the other hand increased his points by 34 from two years ago. Both players seem to be on different paths. But the Matthews lovers wil tell you otherwise. They will spin his numbers to make it look like he is still just as dominant as he was two years ago. McDavid, Draisaitl and MacKinon never regressed. They all had career years last year. Same with Petey.
2022-2023 NHL Season:
Connor McDavid - 153 points
Leon Draisaitl - 128 points
Nathan MacKinnon - 113 points
Elias Pettersson - 102 points
Auston Matthews - 85 points
One of these players is not like the others. Can you guess which one? Funny how the player with by far the lowest point totals wants to be the highest paid player in NHL history.
Uhm. Until Pettersson does it again his 102 point season is just as much an outlier as Matthew's 60 goal season. Also. Matthews has been better than a ppg every season he's played. Pettersson has done it once. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a Matthews fan, but you're trying to paint it like the guy is a 1 year flash in the pan. Pettersson has far more to prove right now than Matthews does.
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19 minutes ago, timberz21 said:
I'm not comparing deals, I'm comparing players. EP is in a tier with those guys, not with McDavid, MacK, Matthews or Draitsail.
You can still use Hughes deal at 8M signed in 2021 and factor in inflation, flat cap, covid, etc to make a comparable deal for EP.
I don't think you can use Hughes as a comparable. His contract was signed coming off his ELC as a 20 year old and well before he broke out. Pettersson is older, more established, and has an eye towards a significant cap increase next season. They may be comparable players now, but Hughes was pretty much just draft pedigree and potential when he signed his deal
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42 minutes ago, timberz21 said:
Why? Matthews has been over PPG his whole career (except rookie season). He's a perennial 40G scorer and even posted a 60. Mackinnon is at 12 and proved a lot more as well.
I love EP, but would why should he be paid anything close to these guys? If you want to look at comparable, Barzal, Aho, J. Hughes are better comparable.
Hughes signed his deal before he broke out and is one of the best discount deals in the league. I wouldn't bother using him as a comparable. Vancouver isn't going to get that lucky
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3 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said:
Nothing would p*ss me off more than trading EP to Boston.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Outside MaCavoy I'm not sure what Boston could possibly offer
[discussion] forum closure
in Canucks Talk
Posted
But I've spent so much time cultivating my ignore list here. Lol