[[Signing] Flames re-sign Matthew Tkachuk 3 years 21 million]

55 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Nope he went directly to the NHL scoring 48 points on mostly the third, and then the second line....with out lineup he’d probably have moved up even faster.    Those points would have helped us in the standings, and we could definitely expect the same lottery balls... that said yes maybe we’d still have EP, but I’d still rather have EP and Hughes for sure then MT, x and x players.   And like I said I hated that we passed on him. 

I don’t think you can play that game. It’s not as simple as if we had tkachuk we would have had more points = better results.

 

There’s no saying that if canucks had tkachuk perhaps granlund doesn’t get the same opportunity to score 19 goals. Or baertschi doesn’t get the pp time to put up 35 points. It’s not just a simple addition. That move subtracts else where in realistically balances itself out.

 

Canucks didn’t finish that low simply because we were missing a 48 point rookie. Canucks finished that low because our goaltending was poor and we were annihilated with injuries. Tkachuk doesn’t change that. 

 

Every move has a ripple effect that is impossible to predict. So trying to add hindsight doesn’t work in this situation. There’s no saying that canucks would have been better. Canucks could have just as easily been worse and ended up drafting Dahlin in 2018. 

[Why the Jake Hate????]

3 hours ago, Snapshot85 said:

 

Ok here's my point guys.

 

You have 2 teams playing a game.

Team A

Nikita k

Connor M

Patrick K

And

Brent B

Mark G 

3 forwards and 2 defense. Combine for a whopping 511 points . Playing against team B

 

Team B

Alexander O

John T

Leon D

And 

Morgan R

Dougie H

 

Team B only has 393 points

 

Who wins?

Well team a has 159 goals

Team b has 186 goals 

 

So team b wins ...  despite having many less points and no heart trophy winner.

 

Goals win hockey games not points 

 

*All stats are 2018-19 season

Leon’s goal production drastically decreases without McDavid feeding him the puck.  This very important fact doesn’t seem to be clicking in for you. You’re trying to silo goals into there own grouping as if they exist without any outside intervention.  But that is not the case, goals are the byproduct of other actions. When you take out those other actions, you will not see the same goal production.  So that 186 goals you are claiming “wins the game” drops significantly. 

 

Also if Patrick Kane is playing with McDavid. His goal production increases. He likely puts up 60 goals. And that is why your logic is flawed. 

[Why the Jake Hate????]

2 hours ago, Snapshot85 said:

When's the last time a trophy won a hockey game??? 

 

The hart trophy is the best and most valuable player in the game each year. That is how the league values players. Thus debunking that goal scorers are the most important. If that were the case there would be no Hart trophy. That would just belong to the rocket richard winner. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Snapshot85 said:

Look I'm not sayin other stats dont matter. And mcdavid brings so many things to the table other than points. What I'm saying that for forwards goals matter significantly more in general .

Most goals do not happen without assists. How many goals does Rob Brown get if he’s not playing with Mario. Goals are the product of others. Very few goals are a pure individual efforts. Which is why it’s stupid to claim that goals are more important. If jake was canucks 4th best at scoring goals why was he only the 17th on the roster for PP/TOI. The whole purpose of the PP is to score. Why....because there is more that goes into scoring then the simplified terms your trying to make it out to be.

 

Leon doesn’t get 50 goals without playing with McDavid. His goals are the byproduct of the assist of his linemate. It’s pretty easy to score goals when all you have to do is stand in front and wait for the other guy to do all the work then feed you a puck with a wide open net. But according your logic. Leon scored more so apparently he is a better forward then McDavid. Lol

 

 

 

[Why the Jake Hate????]

3 minutes ago, Snapshot85 said:

No.... it's not flawed logic. Points are great.... and assists are good...hits are good...defensive play is good... leadership is good. There's lots of traits that make a player good. But most important stat for value for a forward is goals plane in simple. 

 

Without goals you simply cannot win.

A player can score by himself

But a player needs at least one other player to put up a assist..... 

In theory... the assist was not needed to score the goal in the first place , giving a assist no value.

 

Yes I know it's a bit abstract and not real world .

 

But the point is that goals are what win hockey games.

 

In my opinion

 

Tell that to hank who won the Hart trophy while being outside the top 25 in goals scored.

 

Draisaitl out scored McDavid last year. Guess that’s why Leon makes more....wait.....yeah you’re opinion is wrong. 

 

 

 

 

[Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW]

2 hours ago, Yung1 said:

 

I really don't like using this kind of logic to determine which line a player is capable of playing on. It totally ignores the fact that half the teams don't make the playoffs and thus do not have capable players playing on appropriate lines.

 

If we were to use this logic, the correct way to do it is to say that the top 15 players for each position statistically are capable 1st line players. Anyone below is theoretically not a 1st line player on a playoff team, for example.

Exactly it’s like saying they’re 31 number 1 goalies in the league because there are 31 NHL teams.  We all know that not every team has an actual #1 goalie.

 

So it doesn’t make sense to try taking the number 40th ranked goalie, comparing him to the 31st ranked and then claiming that the 40th ranked guy is basically a #1 goalie because his stats are close. 

 

Add in the fact players move up and down the line up, players can move from left wing to right wing to center.  For example, cap friendly list Goldy as only LW, but Goldy plays both wings and is listed on NHL.com, hockey DB and even canucks.com as a RW.  

 

But…if you keep him as a LW and use the same flawed logic that was done with jake. Well.....Goldobin amongst all LW according to cap geek.

 

70th in all points

44th  in points per game

63rd in points per game

23rd overall in best cost per point

15th overall in best cost per assist

 

So it goldy a top 6 winger? No. Heck we’re debating if he’s waiver bait or not. 

 

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

 

On 9/22/2019 at 11:24 AM, ba;;isticsports said:

We also had Edmonton taking Olli Juolevi at fourth overall. Oilers GM Peter Chiarelli also suggested the team was looking at defense until Jesse Puljujarvi fell into their lap. That means both Edmonton and Vancouver also had Olli Juolevi ranked number four. 

In fact, any team that was doing its job properly scouting had a similar draft board. Vancouver Canucks D Olli Juolevi was hands down the next best prospect behind “the big three”.

 

 

This part is funny, how they came to this conclusion all based off the writers own poor speculation.  

 

Oilers publicly stated sergachev was the D they were going to take. That means joulevi was not ranked number 4. 

 

Canucks also had Dubois as there number 4, not joulevi. A player they were hoping would fall to them had oilers ended up picking a defense.  

 

This idea that joulevi was the “Next best after #3” is erroneous. It would be had to find a scouting service that had Joulevi in the top 4 at the final rankings.

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2016-draft/nhl-draft-rankings/

 

I don’t know who wrote this piece but clearly their hockey “expertise” shouldn’t be taken seriously. 

[Justin Trudeau apologizes for wearing brownface during 2001 event at school]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its curious, I do wonder why gen z in particular seems so rigid and unforgiving when it comes to past discretions.

 

It’s not just gen Z. It seems more and more like the left is breaking into two, a center left and the far left. That far left is growing, PC culture is taking over in many facets.

 

This group doesn’t believe in rational discussion, in there opinion no discussions are needed to be had, there minds are made up. It’s truly becoming everyone must have one think. “Think, do, and say as I, or I’ll label you.” “if you have ever done something in the past that I disagree with, ill not only call you out, I’ll try to destroy your life”. 

 

Dave Chappelle’s most recent stand up really hit the nail on the head with this. Kevin Hart says 5 bad tweets, 8 years ago and people try to stop him from hosting the oscars. 

 

The ironic part is the liberals do dip more than their toes into appealing to this far left group (and fair enough they are votes). So it’s quite humorous to see as this type of act, from there great leader comes out, and now they don’t know what do to with themselves.

 

It’s why it’s so disappointing how the cons handled it. This type of issue is not their fight and them pointing fingers yelling shame comes across as very cheap attempt to appeal. All the had to do is take the high ground and let the far left groups crumble from the inside. 

 

 

 

[Why the Jake Hate????]

9 hours ago, Snapshot85 said:

With respect,

like I said.... he scored more goals than over 60% of 1st round forwards in his draft year (yes small sample size) Hes defneitly worth a first rounder. Not all picks can be petty boeser or hughes.

 

The problem is you are focusing on a very specific stat that is hand picked in jakes favor.

 

Why just goals?  In 2012 hank only scored 14 goals (and 81 points). Would you claim that jakes season last year better? Not every player is defined as a goal scorers. Plenty of forwards are play makers (hank, Thornton), Defensive specialist (beagle) and enforcer/enegry types.  Value isn’t based on goals. Fiala last season while only putting up 14 goals, put up 40 points. 

 

why just the first round? Why just jakes draft year?  Some years are poor draft years. In 1999 Taylor pyatt was the 5th most productive goal scorer players picked in the first round. According to your criteria he must have had value. 

 

The point I’m trying to make is jake has only been ok. He’s 23 years old. He’s at the point where is draft status is no longer going to give him a free ride and he will have to start earning his spot over other players who are pushing for that role. If other players start to pass him then it’s totally understandable for them to be shopping.  

 

[Justin Trudeau apologizes for wearing brownface during 2001 event at school]

20 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

How many of these costume parties JT went to?

I don’t think I have ever been to one, it seems like he was attending 1 per week.

In uni it was once a month. Dressed up and painted myself blue once.

 

Do you think this will ruin my political future??? I mean i doubt I’d be getting the smurfs votes now. 

[Justin Trudeau apologizes for wearing brownface during 2001 event at school]

In my honest opinion conservatives really dropped the ball on this one and you can tell their marketing department has no touch with todays conservatives.  The fact that they decided to throw there hand and get directly involved into the lefts PC culture is disappointing.  I would have much higher respect and I’m sure they would have gained some points with the left had Scheer stuck with his beliefs and acknowledged the apology and moved on. 

 

Even if conservative are the ones that dug up and secretly released the video, that’s fine make it public and then just let the liberals rip themselves apart. hopping onto the bandwagon and condemning him is not part of the conservative values, that’s dropping to their level and it doesn’t look good. 

[Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW]

14 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Problem with hanging on to Goldy would be:

I agree with your quote but you also likely get him into some games. Players will get banged up or need a healthy scratch for a wake up call.

 

Have him rotated in the line up every now and then and if we still don’t see any promise by the time then it’s time to move on.  

 

14 minutes ago, aGENT said:

A Baer (or Pearson/Leivo/Virtanen) trade would also 'solve' that issue but Benning would have to have something pretty much lined up now and ready to pull the trigger. Don't think he'd plan the roster around 'hoping' for that to occur.

I could see it happening in November depending on the type of start we get. 

[Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Yeah I'm not waiving Leivo either.

 

Ferland, Pettersson, Boeser

Baer/Pearson, Horvat, Miller

Baer/Pearson, Sutter, Leivo/Virtanen

Motte, Beagle, Leivo/Virtanen

 

Eriksson as 13th until Roussel's off IR

That’s what I’m thinking too. I could maybe see us holding on to goldy till rousell gets back Incase we get a top 6 injury that needs a skill role to fill. I also see us holding onto just have a suspicion that Sven could be shopped this year. 

[Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW]

3 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

MacEwen has looked very engaged and could be the player that makes the team. I'm certainly rooting for him. I can see a Gagner-type of demotion occurring.

Macewan over Goldie for sure at this point. But really I see two spots left. 

 

Brock Ep ferk

miller bo sven

Pearson suts ______

____ beagle motte. 

 

Two holes coming down to jake, Leivo, goldy, macEwan, LE. 

[Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW]

1 minute ago, Rush17 said:

Vanilla is the term I would use. Jake got heated from being Cross checked from behind. What does Green do he sends him right back out there after a short rest. The play dies and Jake's energy is gone. 

 

Green then puts Jake with Petey and Ferly about 5 minutes later then Jake kills that lines momentum... He gets another look with Petey and Ferland late but he doesn't capitalize. 

 

He backed down from the pushing and shoving later in the game. He is perplexing and extremely frustrating to watch when he is indecisive. He tends to flip flop. On shift with Ferland he ran a guy over. Next few without Ferland he's tip toeing around.

Yep. Very similar to kassian. One shift he gets it, the next 5 shifts he doesn’t. That’s ok if he’s a bottom 6 role player but if we want him to become that top six scorer he’ll need to start putting in the extra effort.

 

Now I will caveat this as my own opinion but I think he’s just used to things coming to him naturally, spoon fed too much. He’s not used to having to fight and claw for every inch like in players with less draft pedigree (burrows, macewan types). An example has been his off season training. Even this year. If the team gave you a goal, being close to that goal shouldn’t be the focus. He should have came in with that goal blown out of the water. Go the extra mile, put in the work and earn your teammates respect.  I’d love for him to play with that earn everything instinct. 

[Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW]

3 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Preseason. I think once the roster is fully defined (and lines hopefully settled upon), and the team is 15 games in to the season that matters, is when one can truly make a solid judgement of players.

 

 

While I agree you can’t really judge preseason. I do see a guy like zack mackewan pick up his game last night, working his butt off trying to earn a spot that doesn’t exist. 

[Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW]

Anyways back to the topic at hand. Jakes game last night anyone want to suggest it was mediocre?  

[Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW]

10 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Oh Forsberg.

 

I get that you think you know more than anyone else on here, and are desperate to let everyone know that. It's funny that you're so triggered by a post that you have to resort to calling someone a nobody because they don't need to signal who they know or how ensconced they are in the world of hockey.

You insult me first, I can throw it right back, seems fair. 

 

 

Quote

Your "buddy" is the head coach of the Blackhawks? Did you want a big boy badge? Maybe I could bake you a cake instead? When I think of a kick to the nuts, some random poster on a hockey website claiming to know people in the NHL doesn't really apply, but hey whatever pumps your tires, stud. Keep feeling special, because you are, and don't you ever forget it, buddy.

Yes, I would like a cake. 

[Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW]

38 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

C'mon Alf. I was watching the preseason game against Edmonton with Linden, Bure, and McLean. They felt the same way.

.....Because Sheldon Ferguson is the same as the canucks greats. 

 

Just because you are a nobody doesn’t mean the rest of us are. Here’s another kick to the nuts. Another buddy of mine is the head coach of the Chicago Blackhawks. 

[Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW]

30 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

Sorry, Forsberg, you're just wrong on this one. You're looking at this as if it was even match up but it wasn't. That was an AHL squad with a couple vets vs an almost regular season squad. Of course they looked poor. It wasn't a lack of effort... But rather a lack of talent... This isn't basketball where 1 guy can truly carry a game... It takes effort.

 

Its outstanding that JV put up 2 goals playing against the team he did. While no one else was even generating shots on net, he was scoring. You kind of have some hater shades on here... They didn't play poorly... That whole team played above their level to pull off a win against Gaudreau Hamilton Giordano Monahan Lindholm etc.... 

That's funny because I spent the intermissions at the game with my friend/neighbour who is a head scout in the NHL.  He thought the same and was expecting more energy from our young guys looking to make an impression. But if you (and a few others who didn't even watch the game) say I'm wrong I guess it must be.

 

I'm the last thing when it comes to having hater shades on with Jake. I got to know him a bit when he was with the hitman and out with the shoulder injury.  He was a really solid kid who didn't mind sitting next to some guy at the dome when the Canucks were in town.  I'm routing for him more than most, but i'm also not a blind homer that gets trigger because a person who actually watched the game has a different perspective than my interpretation of the box score.

[Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW]

31 minutes ago, Alflives said:

It's your view that Jake's OT goal was not an exceptional showcase of his valuable and unique skill-set that is troubling.  Again, list the players in the league who could score that goal.  From the intimidation factor that caused the turnover, to the incredible speed, to the look off, to the dangle, to the patience, to the shot.  Many players could do some parts, but it's rare to find a player who can do all those things like Jake put on display.  

Alf when did I say he goal wasn’t good? Seriously,  I never mentioned anything about his goals. His OT goal was a great effort and he showed great patiences with the puck

 

I said his overall game (like the rest of the teams) was poor.  Even jake would be the first to admit that he could have played much better. 

[Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW]

53 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

There are no extra points awarded for brilliance...it's win or lose.

 

And they (Calgary) iced a team of names I knew at home...the Canucks were outmatched but still managed to steal a win.

 

If the Canucks were garbage what does that make Calgary?  Let's give credit where it's due?

 

We didn't have as many shots but...

 

Faceoffs:  50% 

Hits:  Calgary 24 Canucks 22

Blocks:  Calgary 9 Canucks 21!

Giveaways:  Calgary 21 Canucks 9!

 

Hmmm.....

You’re right Deb your stats prove that canucks played amazing last night. What a game by our players, flames we’re lucky to carve out an OT point out of that pummeling we laid on them...lol

 

Flames ran into a hot goalie who kept the game close long enough for canucks to get 3 by Talbot on 9 shots. 

 

That’s the thing about this sport, one goalie can win singlehandedly win a game regardless how the rest of the team plays. How many times did we see luongo we us games we had no business being in. anyone who watched the sports shouldn’t have to had that explained to them. 

 

Hey but don’t take my word, How about....Virtanen’s

 

"He was just standing on his head all game. He kept us in it," Virtanen said of Bachman. "You never want to leave your goalie hung out to try, but we kinda did. But I’ve played with (Bachman) before in Utica (AHL) and played against him. You know what you’re going to get from him. He’s a small goalie, but he works his (butt) off."

 

I’m sorry people get offended by the idea that canucks didn’t put forth a very good effort last night in Calgary but it’s what happened. The fact that people are upset about hearing that is really quite sad, is this really the maturity level some this fan base has dropped to?

 

[Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW]

37 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Jake looked great, especially on that winning goal in OT.  He stole the puck in his own end because the Calgary guy didn't want to get run over. Then raced up the ice.  Next he made the D man look incredibly stupid with a nifty bit of puck handling.  Finally he snapped it easily past the goalie.  Great skill, size, speed, and back check, went into that goal.   Only a handful of players in the league can do that.

Oh tell me more Alf how you came to this conclusion based on watching a 10 second highlight clip.

 

The Canucks as a whole in Calgary last night were garbage. Zero effort except for the Biega and Bachman. I’m glad jake took advantage of the open space in OT but outside of two shifts he looked uninspired like the rest of the club. 

[Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW]

35 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

It's hard for me to say JV did not carry the team... Obviously Bachman played above his level, but look at the roster difference... That Flames team could hang with a lot of full NHL squads. Outshot heavily and JV finds a way to put a couple home.

 

This is one of those moments where you have to give credit where credit is due. Jake and Bachman are the reasons the Canucks pulled off an outstanding upset in Calgary

When you team gets grossly outperformed and jake, Sven, beagle are part of the problem you can’t really give credit. That’s like saying peter klima carried the oilers in the 1990 finals. 

 

The only one who deserves the credit is Bachman who was rightfully named the first start. 

[Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW]

9 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Really impressive from Jake to take the team on his back like that. He said in that interview he wanted to score 20 & maybe he's finally getting it. 

 

I was at the game last night, I don’t know I’d say Jake took the team on his back, it’s nice to see him score in his old building but outside of the two shifts when he scored he didn’t do much. I was hoping for a more physical energetic Jake but he didn’t really have that jump.  Canucks as a hole were down right awful last night (it was somewhat expected considering the roster we had iced).  None of the rookies were really standing out (could be nerves) but the effort also wasn’t there either.  Even Baertschi looked extremely slow and unengaged.  He was cheating offensively constantly, leaving the zone too early, getting caught and then slowly getting back into position.  

 

We only had 1:30 of possession time heading into the 3rd and were getting outshot 30-7.  Rittich switched halfway through the game and only faced 4 shots.  Had flames not put in the sieve Talbot mid second, who let in that floater from Eliot, I don’t know if we ever get the moment to swing out way. If anyone deserve credit for last nights game its Bachman who while looked really shaky at the start, held the Canucks in the game.  Biega was the only other player that looked like he was excited hockey was back. 

 

For a game where Canucks squeaked out a win it was an extremely poor outing. I’ll chalk it up to shaking off the rust but hope to see more for all these guys (including jake) moving forward. 

[Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW]

10 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

Also Sedins put up how many points in the regular season and how many times have we all seen them not score in the playoffs? 

Burr scored the OT winner against the Hawks and kesler went beast mode against the preds.....

soft players put up points during the season and guys like Jake might just earn his weight in gold in the playoffs....Dustin brown comes to mind....

Great Burrows scored a big goal.  

Does that make him a more valuable player than the twins?  

Would anyone in their right mind have traded Daniel for Burrows straight up? No, thanks for proving my point.

 

I think the issue is people have selective memories, they remember burrows big goal because of the meaning behind it, but that doesn’t mean the sedins didn’t bring it in the post season. People choose to remember the really high moments because it was exciting but forget the lack of inconsistency.  People also tend to remember how good the skill players were, Like in 2011 Hank put up 12 points in 5 games against the sharks,   Hanks career he had 78 points in 105 games, Danny had  71 points in 102 games. Burrows only had 34 in 70.  

 

It happens all the time in the post season.  Look at how people react to Ferlund, they remember his big 2 games against canucks where he make everyone scared.  Those two games are how people define him as a post season player but they ignore all the other times he’s been in the post season.  Where has ferlund been the 18 playoff games he’s played in? 20 games played, 6 total points (3 of them came in one game against cauncks).   Same thing with Kassian,  he ran over the Sharks for 2 games with the oilers in the first round and people cry about us trading him….but what about the other 19 games he’s been in, he’s been invisible, 21 games played, 3 total points.