The False Rationale To Trade CoHo

[Tearloch7]

Pahlsson is a big upgrade over Hodgson in the sense of what his role is with this team and what the role of the third line is supposed to be. He is here to do what Malhotra would have done last season had he not been injured.

Pahlsson is better at face-offs (51.1% to 43.1%). He is a better checker than Hodgson, and has far more experience in playoff hockey (SC w/Anaheim).

Having Pahlsson center the third line improves the chances that the opposing team's top-2 lines will be hindered in their goal production. Having the Canucks' third line used to tie up the opposition's top lines means that Kesler and company can focus more of their energy on scoring rather than checking (as in last year).

And Pahlsson is pretty good with his passing and puck control. There were a few instances in the Phoenix game where passes from Pahlsson led to pretty good soring chances.

Might Hodgson have scored more points than Pahlsson in the upcoming playoffs? Likely. Will Pahlsson finish with a higher, *positive* +/- stat than Hodgson would have? I think that is almost an absolute certainty, and that is something on which I place greater value.

regards,

G.

[nlife]

[Guest gumballthechewy]

I got news for you people, the trade has already been and gone, CoHo's gone and we have Kassian, deal with it. Hockey is what it is, players get traded that's how it works, Linden got traded, Greatzky got traded for crying out loud! I'm not trying to compare Hodgson to Gretzky but some of you people are acting like he was.

[KES]

I don't post much on this site but I feel compelled to comment on this. This trade has changed the entire dynamic of this team and not for the better. For the past few years we've always had a problem with secondary scoring, the Kesler line was only productive last year. Now AV is back to having some sort of weird fetish with Raymond, even though he's firmly established himself as an ineffective perimeter player whose very weak on his skates. I used to support Raymond, even in the playoffs last year, but that ship has sailed.

Hodgson on the third line gave opposing teams difficulty in line matching. For the Canucks to have two obvious defensive lines that can't put the puck in the net is a deficiency, not an asset. I would argue we only have one scoring line now because AV won't put the American Express line back together for some obscure reason. Raymond might actually be effective if he were on the third line rather than the second.

It's pretty obvious that Hodgson is going to develop into an elite player that a franchise is built around, and no, I'm not exaggerating. His Hockey IQ, vision and anticipation of play are at an elite level. He's a great passer and he has a great shot too. It doesn't matter how good Kassian becomes, teams are built around players like Hodgson, and he's a centerman to boot! Behind great goalies, a top center is the most coveted player to have on your team. I really can't believe Gillis did this; he's been fantastic in his tenure until this move.

I watched Linden and the Sedins when they broke into the league and Hodson is much better at his age than the Sedins were, and he reminds me very much of Linden. He's the type of player that makes players around him better and can put a team on his back and carry them. You could see that already and it was his first freakin' year! Absolutely terrible trade.

I really hope Kassian becomes a great player, he's already acqiutted himself very well and shows signs of becoming very good, but he'll never get to the level Hodgson will. Oh well, water under the bridge. I'm feeling a little nervous about the playoffs now and I didn't feel that way before this trade. The Canucks are easier to match up and play against now and the defence is weaker than last year. We're already seeing they're having a hard time scoring and I believe it's because of the team dynamic with Hodgson out of the lineup; we're a much more predictable team.

[skg8]

I have to agree with KES right above me. Although people are saying they didn't touch their core players, I think that Cody had the type of personality that really connected with a lot of the players in the room. He wasn't just a dispensable player, I'm sure that they were all as shocked as anyone else about the trade. There is nothing that says people can't like Kassian and still be upset about the trade. I think they didn't have to give him up to get a player that can bring the same element that Kassian brings to the team I would agree with bringing a player with grit to the fourth line, but we didn't lose the cup because of a lack of size, we lost it because we lacked scoring.

I feel like all around this was a bad trade because of the player we gave up, not because of the one we got in return. Last year we had Raffi Torres running around the rink without much scoring, which is exactly what Kassian is going to bring to the team this year. The fact that so many people are trying to justify or find a reason for Cody being trade by blaming it on him or his agent simply shows how upset people are about the trade and how little sense it made. They have to figure out another reason, because otherwise it is simply a question mark.

Finally, to the people who are saying get over it, it's done; why do we have to get over it? Cody was a really important part of the team and even Gillis himself didn't want to trade him. Why do we automatically trust Gillis and assume that he made the right decision; do we automatically assume the police are making the right decisions simply because they have experience? I would be questioning the intelligence of Canuck fans if we all just went along with this trade and assumed that "Gillis knew best" simply because he has more experience.

[beer&meat]

I have to agree with KES right above me. Although people are saying they didn't touch their core players, I think that Cody had the type of personality that really connected with a lot of the players in the room. He wasn't just a dispensable player, I'm sure that they were all as shocked as anyone else about the trade. There is nothing that says people can't like Kassian and still be upset about the trade. I think they didn't have to give him up to get a player that can bring the same element that Kassian brings to the team I would agree with bringing a player with grit to the fourth line, but we didn't lose the cup because of a lack of size, we lost it because we lacked scoring.

I feel like all around this was a bad trade because of the player we gave up, not because of the one we got in return. Last year we had Raffi Torres running around the rink without much scoring, which is exactly what Kassian is going to bring to the team this year. The fact that so many people are trying to justify or find a reason for Cody being trade by blaming it on him or his agent simply shows how upset people are about the trade and how little sense it made. They have to figure out another reason, because otherwise it is simply a question mark.

Finally, to the people who are saying get over it, it's done; why do we have to get over it? Cody was a really important part of the team and even Gillis himself didn't want to trade him. Why do we automatically trust Gillis and assume that he made the right decision; do we automatically assume the police are making the right decisions simply because they have experience? I would be questioning the intelligence of Canuck fans if we all just went along with this trade and assumed that "Gillis knew best" simply because he has more experience.

[Vaeneir]

I think that Cody had the type of personality that really connected with a lot of the players in the room.

I would be questioning the intelligence of Canuck fans if we all just went along with this trade and assumed that "Gillis knew best" simply because he has more experience.

[hockeyfan87]

It's fairly obvious that Hodgson's camp asked for the trade. I'm not a fan of the trade but I think Gillis did his best in maximizing the return. I've lost quite a bit of respect for Hodgson. At 21 I think he should have stepped up and made his own decisions.

[skg8]

What do you base the first point on? Seems Cody didn't get along with all members, based on the "big head" comments his former teammates are letting drift around on social media.

Second, I am questioning the rationale by which you believe you have a better understanding of the team than the general manager. I think of all people he has the best understanding of the situation. To imply otherwise is pretty ignorant.

[MacdeesSnipinGs]

i think the first 3 games have proved my point

[alt kilgore]

i think the first 3 games have proved my point

[Ballisticsports.]

After going through the COHO and Kassian threads the dominant rationale among the crowd that likes this trade to bring in Kassian is that he brings an element of "toughness" to the line-up that we didn't previously have, and that COHO didn't have a spot behind Kes and Hank moving into the future.

Fair enough COHO ain't exact 6,3 230! However i think these arguments are in many ways flawed.

The leading hitter on the Canucks is Lappy. He has 178 hits in 63 games. or 2.83 hits per game, averaging just over 11 TOI per game. He also has 7 fighting majors, scrapping in just over 11% of all games this year. He has 118PIM averaging 1.87pim/gm

Zach Kassian on the other hand has 39 hits in 27 games or 1.44 hits per game, averaging 12 TOI per game, he has 2 fighting majors, fighting just 7.5% of all games this year and has accumulated 20PIM averaging 0.74PIM/gm

Info used from: http://espn.go.com/n...lties/count/121

I understand that fighting, hits, and PIM, don't mean 'toughness', but a direct correlation of how you play the game can be deduced.

Also, Lappy was acquired for a 3rd round pick

Kassian was acquired for well... you know

To finish this point, toughness does not have to be acquired by trading your rookie of the year candidate, and IMO a point-a-game player in a couple years.

Travis Moen for 2nd round Pick? Raymond for Moen straight up?

Other ways to acquire this much desired toughness!

Second argument: "CoHo has Nowhere to play behind Kes and Dan, and will always have a limited role, with limited Ice time".

Cant the theory of having Schneids for Luo, be applied for having Coho as inexpensive insurance policy of sorts, god forbid injury to Kes or Dan. A guy to step into a top 6 role at the drop of the hat?

Ask Pittsburgh with Crosby, Malkin and Stall how that's working out.

I also feel like people don't truly understand the Loss of offensive Production with CoHo gone.

As much as i love Kes this aint a knock on him, just illustrating the offensive prowess of CoHo

Ryan Kesler has 19 goals in 58 games or .32 goals per game. He also Averages just over 20 TOI per game with a total of 1,163:10 Minutes on the ice this season. Averaging 1 goal for every 61 minutes of ice time. Not to mention averaging 3.26 TOI of PP time/gm with 7 of his goals coming on the PP, playing with Hank and Dank.

Coho has 16 goals in 63 games or .25 goals per game. He averaged just 12.43 TOI per game with a total of 801:56 Minutes of ice time averaging 1 goal for every 50 minutes of ice time. CoHo played 1:50 TOI of PP time and had a remarkable 5 ppg, in limited time without the sedins.

Info used from: http://www.nhl.com/i...wName=timeOnIce

Cody Hodgson this year is a much more efficient goal scorer than Kes. Obviously Kes brings incredible intangibles to the game but loosing this kind of offense to you lineup cannot be understated.

I completely understand that sometime hard decisions have to be made, but trading away this stud, for an unproven guy who has 3 career NHL goals stings a little. Obviously stats can be deceiving but they help gain a better understanding of what a player brings to the table.

Hopefully GMMG proves me wrong and we can laugh at this, like the "get rid of burrows thread from 2008" when Kassian is lighting it up as the Canucks version of "Lucic 2.0!"

But for right now this one just stings!

[Magikal]

I believe He did have a spot on this Team. I have stated it here several ttimes since Novmember.

With Coho he has our 2nd best playmaking Centre

I wanted to see Him centre Booth and Kesler

I think that would have been an awesome line

Playmaking Centre who can score and also decide which one of his 2 speedy,gritty,like to shoot wingers is in better position for a pass.

I was suprised that this was not tried even once?

Also when Kesler was one the 1st powerplay, His spot cold have been taken by Higgins,Booth,or, Lappy for the 2nd Powerplay unit

Whatever happened to Kesler standing in front of the net on the PP and screening and scoring on the rebound or tip?

I would have liked to have saw Kassian try tht role (never did or will)

Curious,

I have always liked Kesler, We groomed and drafted Him and has been very good for Vancouver. But, if You were the Gm and got a cal from Winnipeg that said," We want Kesler,and will give You Byfuglien" ( use on D or as a forward) makes him very versatile... How many would make this trade?

[Get real canuck fans]

Very pissed at this trade. If they traded Coho and a 1st for Kassian and Gaustad I could see the point, at least Gaustad can produce something, but the chances of Kassian filling in and making the 2nd unit PP click is almost zero. The chances of Kassian scoring in the tough games is near zero.

Today Kassian doesn't bring more to the table than Bitz or Duco. Pretty sure the other D we got isn't much an improvement over Sulzer NOW.