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Size DOES Matter - Subway


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#91 Aladeen

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:21 PM

Only if you do not understand the legal issue.

Sorry I didn't realize you were a corporate lawyer as well as a master woodworker.

You should just post your resume since obviously somehow 2x4 Nominal lumber dimensions (as you put it) are a great legal analogy for a foot long sandwich :rolleyes:.

I will know for next time not to compare length with length but rather compare it with width, what was I possibly thinking?
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#92 Markus Alexander Cody

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:48 PM

Bah I don't care if it's 11 inches or actually a foot long, as long as I get my sandwich and it fills me up, I'm good.
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#93 coleman26

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:55 PM

I feel so lucky to live in a part of the world where some of the major problems are that a footlong sub is only 11 inches long.


Also, I don't remember who brought up Quizno's, but I swear to God, if there was a doll of me mass-produced with a string that you could pull so the doll would say my 5 most common phrases, one of them would be 'I f*****g hate Quiznos'

Oh, I wish I could hate them to death. Subway might not be great, but Quiznos is that absolute dirt worst.

Edited by coleman26, 25 January 2013 - 07:05 PM.

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#94 MANGO

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:00 PM

One foot = 12 inches. that is not negotiable...it is not 11.99 inches, it's 12 inches. and possibly the reason footlong isn't a word is because you've omitted the hyphen. Foot-long clearly states that whatever it is in question is the length of a foot...which is...12 inches.


It could also suggest that it is as long as someones foot.......:-)

Edited by puck n icehole, 25 January 2013 - 07:02 PM.

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#95 coleman26

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:01 PM

Also, isn't the actual content of the sandwich determined by the size ordered? It's not like you're going to get an extra meatball, or anything. You're getting all the fillings, and one bite less of bread. That's it. The crap they throw on the table for free in other restaurants because they don't want you leaving hungry. It's an inch of bread. Still 8 meatballs to an 11 inch sub.
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#96 Pouria

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:28 PM

My girlfriend says she can't handle a foot-long, but that 6 inches is the perfect length ;)


hmmm...

**BRB

Edited by Pouria, 25 January 2013 - 07:28 PM.

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#97 EX_Bert_Worshipper

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:44 PM

Maybe the employees could just press down on the sandwich after assembling it and it squish it until it reaches 12 inches.
That'd make everyone happy, right?
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#98 j3ff

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:57 PM

My girlfriend says she can't handle a foot-long, but that 6 inches is the perfect length ;)


Has your girlfriend tried a foot-long?

:bigblush:
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#99 cadillaccts

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:17 PM

If I tried to pay them $11 on a $12 invoice, they wouldn't allow it. Why should we allow them to give us 11" subs when were being charged for 12"?


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#100 zombieksa

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:57 PM

Over 1 inch?

That's a sample at Costco. I wouldn't even be bothered to fight over that.

You'd have to be an extremely dull person to want to money out of that. I hope it backfires on those two New Jersey people.


1inch x 100,000s of subs served a day equals a lot of saved bread, especially if you consider how overpriced subway's subs cost.
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#101 Aleksandr Pistoletov

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

What's next?

Measure the diameter of an 8", 10" or 12" pizza?

Is quarter pounder a McDonald really 1/4 pound ???

lol someone on welfare who had nothing to do that day

Agree entirely. Well put.
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#102 coleman26

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:07 PM

You know what? I just walked down to my local Subway and got a footlong meatball. Whipped out the measuring tape, 12 3/4 inches.

I ASKED FOR A FOOTLONG! GIVE ME MONEY!
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#103 dragon

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:42 PM

Subway sandwich sizes are fine.....
But anyone noticed that some pizzas are getting smaller and thinner?
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#104 Aleksandr Pistoletov

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:50 PM

You know what? I just walked down to my local Subway and got a footlong meatball. Whipped out the measuring tape, 12 3/4 inches.

I ASKED FOR A FOOTLONG! GIVE ME MONEY!


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"When Jonah's agent called him and said Quentin Tarantino wanted to put him in a spaghetti western [Django Unchained], Jonah was like, 'You had me at spaghetti.'"

 

"Aziz has been charming audiences and snakes for years. And I guess you’re here tonight because now that Kanye had a real baby he doesn’t need you anymore."

 

 -- Jeff Ross

 

 


#105 coleman26

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:55 PM

I upped it, and I am 100% doing that next time I go in.

If I can keep the face. I probably can't. I lack that kind of control.
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#106 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:31 AM

I'm sure not all buns are going to come out 12 inches.

And 'Muricans suing for $5 million in damages. :lol: What a joke.
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#107 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:29 AM

It could also suggest that it is as long as someones foot.......:-)


But it doesn't. your foot...your pedal appendage...and the measurement foot are not the same thing. And besides who would want to eat a sandwich whose dimensions are determined by the length of a person's foot...you put your foot near my sub...and i'm kicking you in the nuts, pacifism be damned.

Edited by Scott Hartnell's Mane, 26 January 2013 - 05:48 AM.

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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#108 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:00 AM

Had you realized that I am in fact both you would have saved yourself a good deal of embarrassment.

And you still have yet to grasp the legal issue.


What exactly is the legal issue...a couple of meatheads from New Jersey kvetching over the length of their sandwiches? Christ on sale people are so damn sue-happy these days...I hate to burst your bubble but this is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard of....well..aside from the two idiots who are trying to sue Lance Armstrong because they bought copies of his book and it turns out he is a fraud. That's pretty damn ridiculous too. I mean...think about this...say it turns out the story of Jesus and the rest of the Bible is untrue...are people going to next be suing the people who wrote the Bible...in absentia? Or the bookstores they bought them from?
...or what about Baskin Robbins? You go in there and they're out of three of their 31 advertised flavors...so now it's 28 flavors...do you sue them for falsely advertising on their sign that they offer 31 flavors? Where does this kind of crap end?

Edited by Scott Hartnell's Mane, 26 January 2013 - 07:56 AM.

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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#109 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:44 AM

What exactly is the legal issue...a couple of meatheads from New Jersey kvetching over the length of their sandwiches? Christ on sale people are so damn sue-happy these days...I hate to burst your bubble but this is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard of....well..aside from the two idiots who are trying to sue Lance Armstrong because they bought copies of his book and it turns out he is a fraud. That's pretty damn ridiculous too. I mean...think about this...say it turns out the story of Jesus and the rest of the Bible is untrue...are people going to next be suing the people who wrote the Bible...in absentia? Or the bookstores they bought them from?
...or what about Baskin Robbins? You go in there and they're out of three of their 31 advertised flavors...so now it's 28 flavors...do you sue them for falsely advertising on their sign that they offer 31 flavors? Where does this kind of crap end?

Consumer protection and civil suits depend upon the law (statutory and case) in a particular jurisdiction.

I am constantly amazed at the lack of knowledge of basic consumer rights by BC residents and the remedies available to them. I have lectured on this in the past at the Vancouver Peoples Law School (http://www.publiclegaled.bc.ca/) to educate consumers. This is the sort of thing that along with such matters as employee rights under the Employment Standards Act and a persons rights in dealing with debt collectors that should be taught in school.

The legal issue is whether "footlong" is a marketing description or a representation of the product itself (i.e a sub loaf 12 inches in length). If the former then it would not matter if the product was less than 12 inches in length but if the latter then it would be a deceptive practise under consumer law. In BC we use the term "material fact" in our consumer protection legislation to differentiate and you would need to examine the case law to determine circumstances that apply for liability to follow.

An example discussed above is lumber marketed as a "2 x 4" when in fact the nominal dimensions do not match the product description but this is not considered deceptive given the common understanding and industry usage.

Companies can also limit liability by making it clear that the description of the good applies only in particular circumstances - the example of McDonald's "Quarter Pounders" that provides the weight representation only applies to the meat patty prior to cooking.

Lance Armstrong is being sued along with the publisher over alleged lies in his books and there appear to be grounds based upon the particular facts.
http://www.bbc.co.uk...t-arts-21193850

As far as Baskin Robbins consumer legislation distinguishes between a business being out of stock of an item as opposed to not carrying it at all or misrepresenting its qualities or attributes.

In BC the BUSINESS PRACTICES AND CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT provides as follows (and note the burden of proof is on the supplier to disprove the claim):
http://www.bclaws.ca...eeside/04002_00



Deceptive acts or practices

4 (1) In this Division:

"deceptive act or practice" means, in relation to a consumer transaction,


(a) an oral, written, visual, descriptive or other representation by a supplier, or


(b) any conduct by a supplier

that has the capability, tendency or effect of deceiving or misleading a consumer or guarantor;



"representation" includes any term or form of a contract, notice or other document used or relied on by a supplier in connection with a consumer transaction.

(2) A deceptive act or practice by a supplier may occur before, during or after the consumer transaction.

(3) Without limiting subsection (1), one or more of the following constitutes a deceptive act or practice:

(a) a representation by a supplier that goods or services

(i) have sponsorship, approval, performance characteristics, accessories, ingredients, quantities, components, uses or benefits that they do not have,

(ii) are of a particular standard, quality, grade, style or model if they are not,

(iii) have a particular prior history or usage that they do not have, including a representation that they are new if they are not,

(iv) are available for a reason that differs from the fact,

(v) are available if they are not available as represented,

(vi) were available in accordance with a previous representation if they were not,

(vii) are available in quantities greater than is the fact, or

(viii) will be supplied within a stated period if the supplier knows or ought to know that they will not;


(b) a representation by a supplier

(i) that the supplier has a sponsorship, approval, status, affiliation or connection that the supplier does not have,

(ii) that a service, part, replacement or repair is needed if it is not,

(iii) that the purpose or intent of a solicitation of, or a communication with, a consumer by a supplier is for a purpose or intent that differs from the fact,

(iv) that a consumer transaction involves or does not involve rights, remedies or obligations that differs from the fact,

(v) about the authority of a representative, employee or agent to negotiate the final terms of a consumer transaction if the representation differs from the fact,

(vi) that uses exaggeration, innuendo or ambiguity about a material fact or that fails to state a material fact, if the effect is misleading,

(vii) that a consumer will obtain a benefit for helping the supplier to find other potential customers if it is unlikely that the consumer will obtain the benefit,

(viii) that appears in an objective form such as an editorial, documentary or scientific report if the representation is primarily made to sell goods or services, unless the representation states that it is an advertisement or promotion, or

(ix) to arrange for the consumer an extension of credit for a fee, unless the fee is deducted from the advance, as defined in section 57 [definitions];



Prohibition and burden of proof
5 (1) A supplier must not commit or engage in a deceptive act or practice in respect of a consumer transaction.

(2) If it is alleged that a supplier committed or engaged in a deceptive act or practice, the burden of proof that the deceptive act or practice was not committed or engaged in is on the supplier.


The phrase most commonly used in these sorts of consumer fraud or deceptive practises matters is if the advertising, claim, representation, etc. constitutes "mere puffery" or whether it is intended or has the effect to deceive in that it relates to a material fact. If the former then the business is fine. If it relates to a material fact and is deceptive then liability may follow.

Puffery refers to an exaggeration or statement that no reasonable person would take as factual. It often occurs in the context of advertsing and promotional testimonials. Puffery may be used as a defence to a warranty or fraud claim (inclduding a deceptive practise claim by a consumer), to assert that the plaintiff shouldn't have relied on the statements in issue. Puffing generally is defined as “exaggerated, vague, or loosely optimistic statements about a company that are deemed so immaterial and unworthy of reliance that they cannot serve as the basis for liability. The difference between a statement of fact and mere puffery rests in the specificity or generality of the claim."

In BC if a supplier is alleged to have committed a deceptive practise , there is provision for the consumer to take court proceedings in Provincial Court (s.171) and also for the the Director of Consumer Protection BC to sue civilly on behalf a consumer or group of consumers similar to a class action (s. 172). The Director may also take over a civil suit and act on behalf a consumer or consumers who have filed suit (s.173) - useful because the consumer does not need to incur legal fees.

A supplier may also be prosecuted which can result in fines of up to $10,000 and up to 12 months in jail if a person and a fine of up to $100,000 if a corporation (s. 190), an order for payment into the Consumer Advancement Fund as an additional penalty (s.191) and the court may also make an order for the supplier to compensate an aggrieved consumer or group of consumers (s.192).
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#110 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:47 AM

I'm not in BC, but as these practices likely are similar to the US's that is very important information to know. Thank you WC.
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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#111 Grapefruits

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:20 PM

So now food costs and labor costs will rise. Measure every bun to insure it meets the 12" standard. Throw out the ones that don't? All I see are prices rising from this.

Lets face it. Im sure the bread is weighed to a specific weight before baking similar to pizza dough. We are still getting the same amount of toppings, the bread just isn't baking to the exact size.

Edited by zero-ONE-three, 28 January 2013 - 08:21 PM.

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#112 Aladeen

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:46 PM

Had you realized that I am in fact both you would have saved yourself a good deal of embarrassment.

And you still have yet to grasp the legal issue.


The main hole in your argument is that Subway management has come out and said it themselves that the footlong sandwich does indeed refer to 12" (IN LENGTH) and that any variance in this is due to the fact that not all employees follow their directions on how to bake the bread exactly So your nominal lumber dimensions are moot in every aspect of this.

Personally I think they should be giving smaller size sandwiches becauset this may help the obesity problems faced in North America.

Edited by hockeyville88, 29 January 2013 - 01:14 PM.

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#113 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:49 PM

The main hole in your argument is that Subway management has come out and said it themselves that the footlong sandwich does indeed refer to 12" (IN LENGTH) and that any variance in this is due to the fact that not all employees follow their directions on how to bake the bread exactly . So your nominal lumber dimensions are moot in every aspect of this.

Personally I think they should be giving smaller size sandwiches becauset this may help the obesity problems faced in North America.


Oh my **** I laughed so hard at this entire post...especially the absolute truth in the last paragraph...smaller sized sandwiches...lol who the hell needs to buy a foot-length's worth of any kind of food...especially in the US? hahahaha.

Edited by hockeyville88, 29 January 2013 - 01:14 PM.

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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#114 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:56 PM

*Personal attack removed and reported*

Personally I think they should be giving smaller size sandwiches becauset this may help the obesity problems faced in North America.


Couldn't agree more with the bolded part. Who needs to exercise personal responsibility, right?

<_<

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 29 January 2013 - 12:59 PM.

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"Sursumredditio" non usquam in hac mea loquantur!



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#115 inane

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:07 PM

Not sure where the personal attack you're referring to is, but isn't editing someone's post frowned upon as well?

Edited by inane, 29 January 2013 - 01:07 PM.

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#116 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:08 PM

When you are buying your food by the foot and the bucket you seriously need to examine your eating habits, IMHO.
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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#117 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:09 PM

Not sure where the personal attack you're referring to is, but isn't editing someone's post frowned upon as well?


You're a tad out of the loop and need to read Stealth's words on the subject.


Re: Editing the posts of others

As long as the change is clearly noted through styling or an explanation, it is acceptable.


Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 29 January 2013 - 01:14 PM.

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#118 inane

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:13 PM

You're a tad out of the loop and need to read Stealth's words on the subject.


Ummmm from the rules:


Do not be a mini-mod. Telling other users to stop trolling, flaming or baiting will probably not make the situation better. Spamming the rules and telling people you have reported them will be considered trolling. Report the post and leave the rest to the moderation team.



So...yeah.

Edited by inane, 29 January 2013 - 01:14 PM.

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#119 Aladeen

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:16 PM

Ummmm from the rules:





So...yeah.

BAM!! The Trump Card of a post!
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#120 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:17 PM

Ummmm from the rules:





So...yeah.


Removing a personal attack from a post I am quoting is not 'mini-modding' and I clearly noted the edit when I removed it. So sorry to have disappointed you in your quick leap to judgement.


BAM!! The Trump Card of a post!


And you would be incorrect.

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 29 January 2013 - 01:18 PM.

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