ronthecivil Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 The 'planning community' does what Councils tell them to do. Put the blame where it belongs. If you don't think building roads drives road oriented development, just like transit drives transit oriented development, then I don't know what to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Well then get pissed at them, not the province. Kind of ironic that one of them happens to be the mayor of a city that has had single family homes being the dominant form of housing next to 29th, Nanaimo, and Commecial drive stations (the worst of all being the hub that it is) near 30 years after construction and recently reduced road space for bicycles lanes on one of the busiest and most congested transit corridor (Cornwall to the Burrard Bridge) when putting in bus lanes would have had a over the top return on investment with regard to delays? And then wants the rest of the region to cough up 3 billion dollars so that we can supply transit to areas they developed that didn't already have rapid transit? And then we wonder why the rest of the region doesn't want to pay up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 NO. People moving from a to b are the majority. They'll do it however they can do it that is most efficient and cost effective. When we build roads and expand highways for free, yet expect transit to be fully funded by some magic beans, then the game is rigged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 In the short term, of course. If you build a wider road, of course congestion will be lessened. But what about 10 years from now, 20 years from now? What kind of future do we want? What happens when the new Port Mann is full of congestion, build a 20 lane wide bridge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 You never answered the question posed in those articles. http://pricetags.wor...the-difference/ The province controls translink. Polak sits there and says 'we won't make any decision til the mayors come up with a plan' meanwhile they gut translink of any ability to actually do anything. It's a circle of stupidity with plenty of blame to go around. But meanwhile we build roads everywhere without any thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Road charges, tolls, property tax, cigarette tax, hell there are a million different ways to fund it. The point is when it is road expansion, money just appears out of nowhere. Ignore the Port Mann and Golden Ears for a minute, and look at how much road expansion there has been. Why is that deemed necessary or acceptable, but transit isn't? Read those two articles I posted--can you answer that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 The people that get around driving (which is often cheaper and usually faster) will say they already pay taxes via (the highest in North America FYI) gas taxes. They want to do it in the most efficient and cost effective way they can. If you tell them that they are going to see higher costs, well, you better bring some efficiencies to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Charge $10 to cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 The money doesn't appear out of nowhere. It appears out of both a business and political case. The bridges and SFPR for example have the business cases of self funding tolls and increased shipping business. Both are worth billions of dollars that will pay for those structures, profits for companies AND expanding transit. As for the political case, as Ron pointed out, the majority of voters are currently drivers. It is political suicide to simply raise taxes on those people without giving them something for it. All that happens then is that they chase you out of office and replace you with the guy campaigning to reverse those taxes. You can make all the utopian comments about how we all want transit you want, which to a point is true. But it's a chicken and egg argument. You can't tax the hell out of people with nothing more than a promise of a better future. People demand real, tangible benefits and the voting populace is extremely short sighted (see HST). So unless you can figure out how to make people less short sighted and hence make your plan not political suicide and/or come up with a better business case than the current compromise of utilizing automobile based projects as a means of funding transit...you will go exactly nowhere fast. It's not that you're wrong Inane, it's that while you have the right idea you have no realistic, palatable way of implementing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 You're giving them options. You're giving drivers the option to get out of their car. You're giving those that have to drive less congested roads. You're giving them environmental benefits. You're giving them healthier options. You're giving them a lot. Read the report about the financial benefits of the broadway skytrain. Ignoring the social/environmental benefits (which are always ignored) there is a business case. If it's the right idea, then you come up with a way of making it happen. Politicians have done it before. Ignoring the right thing to do just because it's hard is pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 You're getting mad at the internet is not going to change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Cheaper? LOL Faster, yes, and why do you think that is???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Why not just do that right now then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Mad at the internet? I'm happy. Happy in the knowledge that I'm actually working to make this change. Yes, it all comes down to politics in the end but it is, one would hope, informed by planners. Most other people here rant and rave but don't actually do anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 You're giving them options. You're giving drivers the option to get out of their car. You're giving those that have to drive less congested roads. You're giving them environmental benefits. You're giving them healthier options. You're giving them a lot. Read the report about the financial benefits of the broadway skytrain. Ignoring the social/environmental benefits (which are always ignored) there is a business case. If it's the right idea, then you come up with a way of making it happen. Politicians have done it before. Ignoring the right thing to do just because it's hard is pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 And that will just be taken as your giving them a tax bill to fund services they wouldn't be able to take as an alternative anyways. A skytrain line to UBC does absolutely nothing for me. Only places I ever go in Vancouver already have skytrain stations next to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I just paid 8 bucks return to go five train stations. Pretty sure driving would have been cheaper. Transit only won this time due to being faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Yeah I'd use a UBC line once every maybe 5 years....lol Wowee! What a benefit to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I use the Port Mann bridge twice a year maybe, maybe I use the sea to sky twice a year, I will likely never use the golden ears etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 You add up how much you spent on your car, how much you spend on gas, how much you spend on insurance, how much you spend on maintenance, how much we all spend maintaining all the roads and highways (yes, busses use them to so discount it a little), how much we all spend on increased health care costs due to crashes, obesity, emission, etc, how much we all spend on wasted time in congestion, due to crashes, etc, how much we all spend on pollution, how much we all spend on noise and other pollutions, etc etc etc. Add up the costs of transit and tell me its cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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