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Patel Bure
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Posts posted by Patel Bure
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1 minute ago, eeeeergh said:
Not sure you want to re-sign Boeser for his 7.5m QO at least based on how things stand right now.. I think it also depends on whether or not Petey can regain his form or not. If he cant, then we should go for the 3 year rebuild, because 7.5m/year on his contract + Myers is just too much dead money for us to be competitive.
Thats why we need to get rid of Green asap - have to see who can regain their form under a new coach and system.
I do love the way Podkolzin and Garland have been playing - they play a more competitive game than Petey and Boes. Filling our lines with guys like that is the way forward imo.I hear what you're saying about Boeser, but signing Boeser at 7.5 million for 5-8 years does a few things:
1) It goes a long way in making sure that Petey resigns with us long term.
2) We show faith in Boeser.
3) We take a calculated risk in committing to Boeser, while making the assumption that our flawed system (Green) was more at fault rather than a mysterious decline on Boeser's part.
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41 minutes ago, danjr said:
Losing season after season, without a sniff of the playoffs. With seasons getting worse and worse, when forward progress is expected.
So many previous franchise had players wanting out en masse. How long is it until our players absolutely give in with the management and coaches. Seeing that they could care less about the state of the team. You can see player frustrations. Some of it started with themselves. Now they see it as a team wide thing, no one is helping anyone else to be put in a position to succeed. Garbage line combinations, line blender, pathetic strategies, or lack thereof.
When do the players start to check out and absolutely sour on our team and never want to play here again?
In all my years of following this franchise, I have never seen it so demoralized from the top to the bottom, and the fans just done.You NEVER give up on the franchise. The day you give up on the franchise, you shut off the TV and find a new hobby.
Now, the owners in charge however, can change the strategy.
In the Canucks' case, both Horvat and Miller should be traded immediately so that......
1) We can acquire elite prospects (Braden Schneider and Anton Lundell come to mind for me, but there are obviously many others out there).
2) We can tank this season and land Shane Wright, Conor Geekie, or whomever.
3) We can replace both Benning and Green. Julien/Budreau/Babcock replaces Green + maybe Mike Gillis is rehired as GM.
4) On July 1st 2022, UFA's will look at our team and see it as a team with an extremely bright future built on a new foundation.
ps - If any player gives up on the franchise, you ship him or "her" out immediately.
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11 minutes ago, Caboose said:
At a minimum you should be paying attention to the salary cap when making a proposal. How do you figure Florida fits in Miller?
They can add in a piece(s) to make it work (i.e. cap dumps, or bloated contracts that have one year left).
At minimum, I'm assuming that people know that I don't literally mean "one for one" deals. Obviously, teams like NYR, Florida, and whomever would have to send us a cap dump in order for "Horvat/Miller for prospect" deals to work.
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22 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:
A retool is when you keep the core and replace a lot of the support players
So what's the core of the Canucks?
Pettersson, Hughes, Demko? Is that it?
Horvat, Boeser?
Hoglander, Podkolzin?
There has to be another D right?
CORE: Pettersson, Hughes, Boeser, Demko, Hoglander, and Podkolzin.
VETS: OEL, Myers, Poolman, and Pearson
Young guys to join us: Dipietro, Klimovich, Lundell, Wright/Geekie, and Schneider would be added to this core.
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21 minutes ago, Caboose said:
loling at Lundell and a 1st for Miller
you're out to lunch
I don't know what constitutes fair value. Maybe Lundell for Miller one for one. Pretend that I said that and please comment on the rest of my post.
ps - I edited out the first so the OP now reads, "Miller for Lundell."
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[proposal] An aggressive “re-tool” that actually expedites the process of us becoming good?
This thread isn’t designed to debate as to whether we should keep or trade ‘x’ player. There are plenty of other threads for that. This thread was created to show how the Canucks can possibly “aggressively retool” starting now and still be able to field a competitive team as early as next season. So let’s get started.
1) Can we all agree that both Horvat and Miller are capable to landing us a 1st round pick AND/OR an elite prospect? If so, let’s just say that Horvat and Miller can land us the following.
A) Horvat lands us Braden Schneider
B-) Miller lands us Anton Lundell
Again, these are just conservative estimates. Perhaps the Canucks can land another 1st from the above.
2) With the loss of both Horvat and Miller from this season, the Canucks completely tank and finish at or near the bottom......which puts us in the Shane Wright sweepstakes. To be conservative however, let’s pretend that we don’t land Shane Wright and instead, end up drafting a guy like Conor Geekie.
3) At the end of the season, the Canucks fire Jim Benning and also hire, or have already hired, a proven winning coach (interim = Brad Shaw; end of season hire = Claude Julien, Bruce Beaudreau, or Mike Babcock).
4) We sign and extend Brock to a 7.5 million x 8 year deal (let us not debate as to whether this is a good move or not......but my line not thinking here is that if we can extend Brock long term, it could convince Petey to sign with us long term as well).
5) Now here is where the fun starts. Pretend that you are one of the UFA’s in 2022 and you’re looking for your next long term opportunity.......and you and your agent decide to assess the Canucks from both a short term and long term perspective:
Long term Canucks team (2023-2024?)
Podkolzin-Pettersson-Garland
Hoglander-Geekie-Boeser
#####-Lundell-Klimovich
####-####-Lockwood
Hughes-Schneider
OEL-Myers
Rathbone-Poolman
Demko
Dipietro
Coach = Julien/Beaudreau/Babcock
GM = not Benning
You, as a 2022 UFA, look at this team and say to yourself, “wow - Id better wear some shades because the future of this team looks really bright. They’re going to be really effing good pretty soon and I want to be a part of that ride.”
I guess the point I’m trying to make here is that if we move Horvat and Miller now, and follow the above template, this team could actually be pretty “desirable looking” from a UFA perspective as early as July 1st 2022......especially if we land Shane Wright instead of Conor Geekie.
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2 hours ago, spook007 said:
Canucks 3-2
Petey
You expect Petey or Brock to score? LOL. That's a good one.
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5-0 Penguins.
All the goals come within the first 25 minutes of the game, and the Pens sit back the rest of the 35 minutes.
Sorry boys but I've completely lost faith.
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1 hour ago, Me_ said:
Since our beloved Canucks are not functioning properly, who should be the Captain of the Vancouver Canucks?
Changing the captain would be extremely ill advised and would only create a bigger rift in the lockerroom (if that is infact what is going on). Keep Horvat as captain unless you are trading him. Since our beloved Canucks are not functioning properly, I would start with firing Green.
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On 11/15/2021 at 4:22 PM, Laheys Liquor said:
So the answer to our problems is to bring in a dirty player who is an absolute goof on the ice, a lazy passenger player in Monahan that most Flames fan want gone, and basically gifting Arizona all of our young mobile puck moving defenseman for a guy who is one of the biggest disappointments in the league this season, right up there with Petry (trust me, i know, I drafted both in fantasy).....
Not to mention both CGY and ARI would accept these offers in a second. And laugh at us after hanging up the phone.
Glad you're not the GM, is my conclusion. Lol.1) Forget about my Arizona deal.
2) Tkachuk might be a dirty player and a good, but he achieves on ice results. Can the same be said about Petey and Boeser right now? Furthermore, the presence of Tkachuk, alongside Miller and Horvat, would likely make size as one this teams’ strengths.
3) Monahan would basically be our/their version of Boeser, but he can play center. In Calgary, Monahan is getting 3rd line minutes but is still producing at the same clip as Petey.
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On 11/15/2021 at 1:26 PM, Patel Bure said:
[proposal] Canucks and Flames
To Calgary:
-Pettersson
-Boeser
To Vancouver:
-Monahan
-Tkachuk
Canucks get much bigger up front.
Tkachuk-Horvat-Hoglander
Podkolzin-Miller-Garland
Pearson-Monahan-Dickinson
Motte-Lammiko-Dowling
OEL-Myers
Hughes-Hamonic
Burroughs-Poolman
DemkoHalak
On the HFBoards, they’ve got a Tkachuk for Pettersson thread going on their T&R section. If you add in Boeser and Monahan to that, I think you’ll have a pretty decent deal. Tkachuk would add to our grit up front and would definitely help us score some goals (unlike Petey and Boeser), while Monahan could anchor our 3rd line and move Dickinson to a more natural winged position. The Canucks would get significantly bigger with this deal.
Tkachuk-Horvat-Hoglander
Podkolzin-Miller-Garland
Pearson-Monahan-Dickinson
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7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:
Lots of Miller proposals and rumours, but the one thing that is missing in all of this is that if he does get traded he needs to go to a contender, as that will allow us the best return on investment. However, the problem with this is finding a dance partner that can manage Miller's cap hit and trade back a serviceable asset with a similar cap hit PLUS picks and prospects.
After doing some research I realized that a deal with Washington is a possibility and the pieces could fit. Obviously Washington is in win now mode with Ovechkin and company, so Miller would be an attractive piece for them as a left winger or a centre. Backstrom is out long term, so Miller could really be a help to them in their top 6.
Here is my proposal:
To Washington: JT Miller
To Vancouver: Lars Eller
Michal Kempny
Alexander Alexeyev
2022 1st round pick
Washington gets a player who can slide right in to their top 6 and also play as a 3C. He will definitely help them over the next 2 years to try and win another cup.
Vancouver gets their 3C in Eller. He's excellent on faceoffs (over 51%) and can be one of our top PK'ers. Kempny is just an add on to make the cap work. He is a UFA in the summer so his cap hit will be off the books. So we free up almost $2 million in cap space for next year with Eller replacing Miller. We can use that cap space to add a UFA net summer to help our 4th line.
The exciting part of this trade though is that we get another 2022 1st round pick AND we get a top Russian prospect in Alexeyev. The big 6'4" 214 pound Russian defenceman shoots left but can play both sides. I would play him on the 3rd pairing with Hamonic or Poolman and use him as our top penalty killer moving forward. He is a very good skater for his size and plays an aggressive game as well. He is a former 1st round pick who was injury prone for awhile and played in the KHL last year. But all indications are he is completely healthy now and ready to challenge for a spot in the NHL either this year or next year. At 22 he fits in perfectly with our core and we add another Russian to play with Podzilla and Klimovich next year.
I think this is a fair trade for both teams. We get a 1st round pick and a top D prospect as well as a 3C for the next 2 years and Washington gets a guy who can help them win another cup or two.
Solid proposal EP. I especially like how this trade would help us both short and long term.
One issue that I have with it however is that Eller is already 32 years old. Canucks should probably be a bit more aggressive in terms of bringing in guys that can help them in the future.
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4 hours ago, shiznak said:
Don’t you think Pettersson has the same vision as Bo? Obviously, everyone wants to win the Cup at some point, in their career. Pettersson, flat out said that he wanted to be apart of a winning culture this past off-season, when negotiating his contract. If we went into a full rebuild, I’m almost certain that he’ll want out. You also run the risk of Hughes wanting to join his brothers in New Jersey once his contract is up.
Like I said, if you trade both Miller and Horvat, two staples of our PK, who play hard minutes……who are you going to replace them with? People might not want to hear this, but I could never see Pettersson or Hughes as players you can build a franchise with. If they’re not scoring, they’re pretty much a liability on the ice.
And this is not a coach problem. Hughes was never going to be a player who can play at both ends. His small stature doesn’t allow him to push guys out of the way in front of the net. This is why, he is always caught out of position, and isn’t quick enough to recover. He leads the entire team in both high-danger scoring chances and scoring chances against. Despite him, being deployed in the offensive zone 70%+ in his shifts. Same goes with Pettersson, he is 3rd on the team in those categories, with the same amount o-zone percentage.
Trading Pettersson, also fetch us a lot more of a return than trading a guy like Horvat.
All good points. My line of thinking was that both Horvat and Miller could not only help us recoup the firsts (or elite prospects) lost in the original Miller, Toffoli, and OEL deals, but would also put us in the running for Shane Wright. If we don’t get Shane Wright, a guy like Connor Geekie could be that Horvat replacement.
Let’s pretend that.....
1) Horvat gets you Braden Schneider and Filip Chytl from NYR.
2) Miller gets you Noah Dobson (or some other elite prospect/young player from another team).
3) The Canucks, now being at or close to the bottom of the league this season, are able to draft Shane Wright or Connor Geekie (Horvat replacement) in the draft.
Canucks future core:
-Pettersson
-Hughes
-Dobson
-Boeser
-Demko
-Schneider
-Chytl
-Podkolzin
-Hoglander
-Wright or Geekie
-Klimovich
-Rathbone
Now all of a sudden, the Canucks would have a ton in their pipeline. If Pettersson doesn’t want to be here after all that? Great! We do what Ottawa did with Mark Stone and move him for more picks and prospects via sign and trade. In a hypothetical situation where Hughes were to leave us in 6 years, we should still have a deep roster at that time.
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These constant Miller proposals are making me feel like I’m about to put my dog down. :-(
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22 minutes ago, StanleyCupOneDay said:
I want more Miller’s not less.
I also want more Miller’s provided that they stay with us beyond July 1st 2023. Trust me.
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33 minutes ago, Timråfan said:
Horvat is a must to have.
Benning got rid off all the heart in the team and if he get rid of Horvat… What’s left?
Agreed that Horvat is a must have, but it’s a massive loss for the Canucks if he walks away on July 1st 2023 and we have nothing to show for it.
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1 minute ago, Timråfan said:
You seem like a resonable guy.
Why are you so stressed?
Our window was supposed to begin in a few years. Everyone here said so from the Benning fan club to hater of him.
All agreed that when the core is 25 the primary window starts and goes on til around 5-7 years later.
Benning rushed the window. Why I don’t know because he said in interviews the same thing. Older core etc…So why through out draft picks theough the window when we wern’t ready?
Thanks man. Just sad.
I would love it if we got a guarantee that Bo and Miller would want to be here beyond July 1st 2023 but I can’t see either guy staying here honestly. It sucks, but with all these rumors of lockerroom dissension + the #FireBenning chants in the crowds continuing to gain steam, I am of the opinion that this team has terminal illness. :-/. I would absolutely love it if we rattled off 7-8 wins in a row to get back into the conversation, but can you see it happening?
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1 minute ago, Me_ said:
You think trading your best player and your captain is straightforward?
That’s a $10,750,000 transaction bud.
We take cap coming back + 1sts and elite prospects in my hypothetical. Get Chytl and Schneider out of NYR and Dobson out of NYI.
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21 minutes ago, Chris12345 said:
I dunno I'd do McDavid for Miller and Myers....
Not realistic but I think they need to be open to deals.
You’re giving me the urge to log on to oilfans.com and troll them. :-p.
To Edmonton
-Pettersson
-Horvat
-Myers
To Vancouver
-McDavid-Draisaitl
-Future considerations
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1 minute ago, NHL97OneTimer said:
Boeser and Rathbone can definitely be on the trade list for me. For the right return, Hughes too.
Baffling how EP and QH can come back as stinkers after a long hold out for more money. This is a story that's told all too often. With that said, both will be fine with a long-term picture I'm sure.
If Miller is a cancer in the room, time to say good-bye. If he's just a vocal presence trying to get the guys to put some energy in, I hope he stays.
Trading our Captain is a statement I'm not sure this team will want to do. I feel like he hasn't stepped up enough as a Captain but I don't want to see him traded. Does anyone remember how people labelled Naslund as a soft "euro" captain? Bo is a strong Canadian kid and I have to say that Naslund took the PR load on the back and on the chin. So far I haven't seen the same public leadership. I'm not sure that he's living up to being the strong captain that's needed right now, but he's a good guy, a good player and I hope we keep him.
Quinn Hughes has been pretty good this season.
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8 minutes ago, Odd. said:
Yes so you want us to be in a perpetual rebuild.
exactly who do you propose will fill in the gaps at center by trading those two?
Trust me, I don’t want a “perpetual rebuild.” I want this team to win now but i am also a pragmatist. This season was supposed to be our coming out party, and it’s been anything but. The way things are headed right now, not only will the Canucks not make the playoffs these next two seasons, but the situation amongst fans and the lockerroom itself will continue to get toxic.
If you were Horvat and Miller, would YOU sign with the Canucks on July 1st 2023? If not, then the Canucks should sell high on both players. Chytl, Schneider, and Dobson would be fantastic. As far as two way centers go to replace Horvat, maybe we find something on the open market.
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1 minute ago, 24K PureCool said:
I am open to trading Demko mostly so he can get a chance to win the cup cause it ain't happening with us while he is in his prime. I like Demko.
Demko will still be in his prime even once his contract expires in Vancouver.
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5 minutes ago, Gnarcore said:
I was listing roster players. I'd totally send Hughes out for the right price.
Dipietro is expendable, seeing as you mentioned him, considering Demko is a top 5 goalie in the league and young.
Hughes is signed for 6 more years at a reasonable cap hit. Dipietro = potentially solid back up at a low cost. Possibly takes over from Demko if Demko leaves in 4-5 years.
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1 minute ago, khay said:
Yeah and Minnesota Wilds and Bill Guerin too.
We should sarcastically offer the Wild Lammiko for Erikss0nEk + Guerin’s wife.
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[proposal] An aggressive “re-tool” that actually expedites the process of us becoming good?
in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
Posted · Edited by Patel Bure
I think Petey and Brock just need new systems to be honest. Even if Petey isn't the guy that we thought he was going to be, if we can tank this year and land either Shane Wright or Conor Geekie, we could then put Petey either on one of their wings, or just have him anchor a 2nd line in the future.
Getting back to my main point of this thread though, if you and I are NHL players who are UFA's in 2022, and we analyze the Canucks as a viable long term option and see the following pieces:
-Shane Wright or Conor Geekie
-Braden Schneider
-Anton Lundell
-Pettersson
-Hughes
-Garland
-Boeser
-Demko
-Podkolzin
-Hoglander
Coach = Julien/Babock/Budreau
I would feel confident about the newfound infrastructure (i.e. No Green, No Benning) + the promising young core that would still have some decent vets (OEL).