Schedule

May 17, 2021

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

never said I would, I said I had no issues not picking MT.

I'm also willing to wait and see what OJ becomes before I write it off. I think he's going to be a top 3 dman on the team in a couple years and will likely be the high minute muncher in 5 years.........if he can stay healthy.

MT has good individual numbers, but has he helped Cagary improve? Are they any further ahead with that pick than Van is with OJ? Truthfully, Sergachev is who they should have picked there, but even then, who knows how he develops on a team not loaded like TB

MT would be our third best player on the team right now. You have no issues on Benning passing on MT?

Wow... the Benning shills are really in full force.

May 17, 2021

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

you're claiming not picking Tkachuk "set the team back years" but you can't support that statement.

I said whiffing on the Virtanen and Juolevi picks set this team back years.

If this team had Nylander and Tkachuk in their top six, they would be a legitimate contender and be in the playoffs right now.

May 17, 2021

1 minute ago, Josepho said:

Relative to other picks in the draft, it's absolutely looking rough to basically have an identical P/G clip in your draft year and +1 year.

Matthew Tkachuk was contributing in an NHL role, Clayton Keller was killing it in the NCAA, Sergachev was producing better in the OHL. Nylander (while not great) transitioned to the AHL decently. Juolevi easily had the worst post-draft year of any of these players.

There's no point in "discussing" with him. He thinks Juolevi is a better pick than Tkachuk.

There might be something wrong up there with him - hard to tell.

May 17, 2021

32 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

The main issue I have with these supposed 'honest conversations' is that rarely - and this thread is a perfect example - is it mentioned or thoroughly acknowledged that throughout JB's tenure its been clear he hasn't been 100% free to build the team his own way - Aquaman has been in the background giving him directives and we have no idea what JB would've/could've done if he had complete discretion. Yes, it's Aquaman's team, but the word 'disingenuous' has been used many times in this thread and I fully believe Aquaman has been disingenuous with this fan base in the sense that he's severely limited JB,s decision making by asking him to do the impossible which is to make payoffs every year starting from a point in time when this franchise was essentially gutted of any meaningful young prospects save for maybe 2 .

Why would JB take the job if he wasn't allowed to build the team his own way?

Obviously his vision was in line with AQ's.

May 17, 2021

Just now, stawns said:

do you have any other reply? You need a new schtik

Tell Jim I said hi.

No reasonable person can argue that you would have Olli Juolevi over Matthew Tkachuk.

Not even the GOAT Benning shills.

May 17, 2021

43 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

JB is good. He has drafted very well.

I think that completely explains my opinion in great detail.

Great. Drafting is one part of the job.

What about his trades and signings?

Would you buy a car with a really nice exterior but a broken engine?

May 17, 2021

12 minutes ago, stawns said:

mapleleafshotstove is your source? Yikes

we wrren't talking about his post draft year, the debate was on who button would have drafted instead.

I thought he was taking MT, but I am very glad that he passed

You are very glad he passed on Matthew Tkachuk for Juolevi?

You're either related to Benning or have done a masterful troll job. Bravo either way.

May 17, 2021

Just now, stawns said:

this year is not a year to use as a standard for any player or the team. Until this season his progress was steadily moving upward, with two 20 goal pace seasons, despite not getting time in the top 6 for more than a period or two at a time. Just because you don't like a player, it doesn't change the numbers.

I'm glad you mentioned the numbers.

5 goals in 38 games for Jake the Snake, with ample top six opportunities.

But somehow it's Greens fault? Are you kidding me man.

May 17, 2021

31 minutes ago, Sbriggs said:

No way, OJ has been too limited on his ice time and when he has been in the lineup he has been good. He'll for sure be a top 4. I see you like to shout loudly about the misses that JB has had at the draft but what about his hits? Several home runs as I see it and the best GM at drafting in Canucks history

Are you Benning's cousin or something? This can't be real...

May 17, 2021

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

I really have nothing to talk about with people who seem to have completely ignored the stupidity of this season, the team infection and conseqjence of that ordeal. Last year is the year to look at it if you want a measuring stick. The track they were on then is pretty much where they were expected to be and it's a good spot. They have some growing to do and pieces to add over the next couple years, but they are in good shape.

So when team is bad = disregard

team is good = regard

Wow. You do realize that COVID literally saved this team last year right? They were trending downwards and Markstrom and Boeser were hurt. They likely would have missed the playoffs last year. The Canucks won a couple games in the bubble due to Vezina level goaltending from Markstrom and Demko, and now suddenly that's the benchmark we are using?

Some of y'all are really smoking the good stuff.

May 17, 2021

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

the failure wasn't the pick, it was the complete mismanagement of Virtanen by Green.

This is how I know you're trolling.

Virtanen was given every opportunity to play in the top six and completely flamed out this year.

Cmon man.

May 16, 2021

20 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

I love it when people bring back mistakes made during the first month on the job 7 years ago.

Awesome talking point Johnny Pajamas.

Ok.

Let's talk about how he absolutely fumbled the bag by trading a second and a prospect trending up for Toffoli and didn't even give him an offer at UFA?

Or do you want to talk about how he overpaid a backup goalie in Holtby for 2 years?

Or do you want to talk about trading Gaudette at his lowest value, or re-signing Jake instead of shipping him off at his highest value?

Or do you want to talk about how he's running the organization on a day-to-day basis or runs out of time when negotiating with free agents?

Or do you want to talk about how his lack of communication with the league/fans when the Covid outbreak happened, or when Jake's allegations occured?

Or do you want to talk about how he re-signed Pearson 3 years x 3M despite Pearson having a down year and seems to be on the decline and not trying to trade him for a pick?

Which one ya want?

Is duce in the name meaning deuce? It's suitable because that post was akin to a $&!#.

May 16, 2021

15 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Nylander's a notoriously lazy player and one of the worst contracts in the league. The guy refuses to backcheck and doesn't care about winning. You don't want a floater like that around young players. Ritchie is decent, but it's hard to argue he was worth his draft position. OJ will be getting more minutes once Baumer is replaced with an actual coach; it is unreasonable to blame Juolvevi for the shortcomings of an incompetent assistant coach.

Thanks and Virtanen is what? A douchebag accused of sexual assault, who stinks on and off the ice is soooo much better?

May 16, 2021

Just now, Alflives said:

OJ will be a player for us. I see him as taking much of Edler’s minutes. Plus OJ passes fantastic. Nylander is always going to be “Double Flamingo” boy.

And this is why I have so little faith for you guys.

You are expecting a guy who the coach won't trust to play more than 13 minutes game to take much of Edler's minutes?

You can't be for real. This has to be a masterful troll job.

May 16, 2021

Just now, Drewman said:

OK, how about using last years stats as a comparison. Pearson played 69 games with 45 points, and Tofu played 68 games at 44 points. Playoffs? Pearson 17 games 8 points, Tofu 7 games at 4 points. They're almost identical. I'm betting you're making this judgement call on the fact Tofolli looks great this season, but hindsight is 20/20.

You got to be kidding me.

Pearson signed his extension when? How many points did he have when he signed his extension this year?

May 16, 2021

2 minutes ago, Hogs & Podz said:

You dismiss to much in order for this to be a level headed conversation. You see to black and white here. Obviously you're a hater... Fair enough but stop pretending your views aren't slanted.

I myself am okay with JB being let go but I understand there is a lot if grey here to the story that you choose not to see. Good luck trying to have a 'honest discussion'.

When did I say my views weren't slanted?

I am obviously in favour of firing JB and have been for years.

What I am trying to understand is, how can anyone still be supporting him at this point despite the mountain of evidence that points to complete ineptitude at his job?

May 16, 2021

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

I liked what I saw from OJ so far; don't be surprised to see him in the top 4. As for Jake, most teams missed in that draft. The only guy from 4-10 that turned out to be useful was Ehlers.

Cmon man. OJ is not even being trusted to play more than 13 minutes a game. The chances of him developing into a top 4 defenseman is the same as a scratch card at this point.

That's just being disingenuous. Like I don't understand why you feel the need to even defend the Virtanen pick?

Nylander went 8th overall, many including myself preferred Nylander because he had higher offensive upside and previously played center.

Many also liked Ehlers who went 9th overall because he had an amazing year at Halifax and seemingly had higher offensive upside.

Nick Ritchie, a far more useful and consistent player than Virtanen went at 10.

I like how you stop the range at 10, because Fiala went 11, Vrana went 13, Larkin went at 15, Sanheim at 17, and Tuch at 18 etc.

Virtanen was a massive swing-and-a-miss and it wasn't hindsight. Nylander and Ehlers had far better junior careers at that point.

May 16, 2021

3 minutes ago, Hogs & Podz said:

I agree with you overall here, except Jim has been great at drafting not just good. Definitely top 5, maybe top 3 over his tenure. Definitely best draft GM in canucks 50 year history.... So give credit where credit is credit is due. However I can't disagree with the rest of your points here.

I can't quite say great drafting with the Juolevi and Virtanen misses (two top six picks) Those two misses set the franchise back years.

I think his drafting is a solid B+. Everything else is a C/C-.

May 16, 2021

9 minutes ago, Brad Marchand said:

Without getting too much into the complex politics of the current management/ownership dynamic, I think the current state of the team hammers home the point that acquiring young talent is a distinct process from building a truly competitive team around that talent. JB and company have done a good job at the first thing, but haven't demonstrated quite yet that they're capable of doing the second.

Again without getting too much into detail, the current team is not good enough at consistenly carrying the play, often relying far too much on their goaltending to bail them out. There are good enough core pieces to build around, I just have doubts about whether the current management team is the one that can make the next step with this group of players.

That is exactly it. I couldn't have said it better.

Jim has done a good job acquiring young talent, but has failed miserably to build a competitive team around them.

It is so hard to build a competitive team around young talent. It takes great pro scouting, great contracts, and great trades... nothing that Jim has shown he can deliver on a consistent basis.

May 16, 2021

12 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Back to toffoli K. Sweet we never talk about him.

Pearson-.460 ppg career translates to 37 pts av. 3.25 for 3 years

Toffoli-.596ppg career translates to 48 pts av. Makes 4.25 for 4 years

The contract has virtually the same value. I'm sorry if you cant see that I don't want to continue this conversation anymore. I just laid out fact but you care to put your personal dislike for bennung above all else.

Then you go on to say virtanen was "putrid in the playoffs" yet his "value was at an all time high". How exactly does that work? You think you're the only ones that watches these games? You dont think other GMs knew about Jake's playoff performance lol. K.

Yes bennings strength is drafting. Hes made some good trades. Some bad ones. Signed some good deals. Some bad ones.

Hes a good GM not a great one.

Would you care to list your replacement GM?

Using career stats to evaluate current contracts makes NO sense. I'm not going to get into that at all because that method of evaluation is just incredibly incorrect.

Signed some good deals. Some bad ones? I don't think you're being objective at this point.

Benning's signings have been for the most part, horrendous. Especially the UFA deals. Even the biggest Jim Benning fans can admit to this fact.

May 16, 2021

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Well, considering this is a Canuck’s team forum, why would a fan of our team choose a player (for his poster name) from a team a lot Vancouver fans don’t care much for?

I was JohnTavares when he was with the Islanders.

If my username is bothering you, I suggest you to go outside and enjoy the sun

May 16, 2021

1 minute ago, kanucks25 said:

For some, it's no longer about what's best for the franchise.

It's about not wanting to face the reality that you vehemently and emotionally defended something for 7 years and it ended up being wrong.

And that goes for both sides.

But why? Why can't we band together and evaluate this properly?

Even the biggest Jim Benning fans can't say it's been a good 7 years. We at the VERY least need a President of Hockey Operations to oversee his transactions.

Some fans will defend him till he dies - I just don't understand the rationale?

May 16, 2021

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I want to open communication to a Canuck’s fan who chooses a Leaf’s player for his poster name?

I want to know why a random internet stranger's username bothers you? Go outside my friend.

May 16, 2021

13 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

I support JB because hes the best drafting GM we've ever had. I'm a firm believer that that is how you build a team. Build through the draft and supplement through FA and trades.

I want to make a couple comments I dont agree with in your original post (cor the record I think it's well thought out and reasonable, unlike the typical &^@# managment content).

You go on to criticize Benning for letting toffoli walk, then criticize him for retaing Pearson. Textbook contradiction. JB has his flaws. This isnt one of them. He learned from his mistake. Toffoli isnt a PPG guy. Hes having a year he wont repeat ever again. BOOK IT. if JB doesnt sign pearson all his haters come back and say he lost an asset when we acquired him and let him walk for nothing if he has a decent year. Toffoli played here for a couple months. LET IT GO HE WAS A RENTAL.

As for not trading Virtanen he was coming of a year that he would have been a 20g20a forward. He was supposed to be our toffoli this year. That didnt pan out due to jake being jake. This has nothing to do with JB. Like the Pearson/toffoli thing if we traded virt to keep tanev, and virt goes off and tanev played his regular 50 games (in an 82 game season) you criticize JB for that too.

Theres no winning against a monday morning QB. Which is what you and many of JBs critics do.

Bad GMs are good at nothing (snow). Good Gms are good at a couple things (benning). Great GMs are good at everything (yzerman). I support JB because hes a good JB albeit not great one.

Here's the thing though... Toffoli is a clear-cut top six forward that had 10 points in 10 games in the regular season with us, as a rental acquisition.

Pearson was an expiring third liner that we could have gotten assets at the deadline for (likely a 3rd).

It's not really a one-to-one comparison. We gave up assets to get Tofu, and lost (opportunity cost) assets in order to retain Pearson.

Jake was putrid in the playoffs (3 points in 16 games) - even Jim attested to that. Jim had a chance to trade Virtanen at his peak value but decided to take a chance to retain him over Toffoli. This gamble obviously did not work out. If we were truly trying to compete, why would we not trade Virtanen for a pick and try to re-sign either Tanev or Toffoli?

Benning's strength is drafting, but what about the other aspects? Trades? Contracts? I don't think it's fair to qualify Jim as a "Good GM" at this point.

May 16, 2021

5 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

i don't think we needed this thread

Maybe, maybe not.

I want to directly open communication with those will still support management and try to understand their perspectives.

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