[[Trade] Blackhawks trade Madison Bowey, 2021 5th-round pick to Canucks for 2021 4th-round pick]

32 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Chicago saw an opportunity to upgrade their 5th to a 4th for nothing.

 

GMs must love when they see Bennings number on their phone.

A poster earlier mentioned how not picking Bowie up on waivers benefits us long term for the expansion draft, and lets us place him on the taxi squad without his cap hit counting and opens up roster spots to help guys like Juoulevi get ice time. 5th vs 4th round picks are negligible, that is common knowledge. No offense intended but i remember when you used to be one of the guys on the boards providing a voice of reason with insightful facts and outlooks and not the snarky comments

[[Trade] Blackhawks trade Madison Bowey, 2021 5th-round pick to Canucks for 2021 4th-round pick]

28 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

For those complaining about waivers, players like Bowen are more valuable once they pass waivers as we can just put him on the taxi squad and have his cap essentially removed. If we pick someone on waivers. The player has to he on the active roaster and eat into our already capped cap.

Also a waiver pick up also would take up a spot from the kids that we should he playing for tue rest of the season. 

we need more people like you on these boards 

[[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks @ Ottawa Senators | March 15, 2021 | 4 p.m. PT | SNP]

Happy with the win, a dub always helps improve your day no matter how ugly. But I can't help but feel the implications of squeezing out wins with the otherworldly goaltending strategy is having zero benefit in helping our team improve long term. I understand it's a pandemic year and the coaching staff is going to remain employed, but what's the point? This type of play and system is not helping the team moving forward and develop in any sense. I still really cannot believe we gave up 46 shots to Ottawa, who were coming off a back to back. But happy nonetheless for the team and the fans, we really have something extraordinary in Demko 

[[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs Montreal Canadiens | March 8, 2021 | 7 p.m. PT | SNP, RDS]

4 hours ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

The fact that there is a decent chance of us returning to the cup finals 10+ years later before any other team in Canada always puts things in perspective for me. People seem to think that when a team rebuilds it will automatically become successful,  yet the truth is that usually isn't the case. Of all the teams that have been on the same timetable as us, none have a 1C, 2C, 1D, 1G and 3-4 real good wingers. We also have another 5+ prospects that legit have a chance at being regulars with the team.

We also have 60+ cap coming off the books over the next two seasons.

It often baffles me how short sighted and reactionary some people are regarding our team. Nuances regarding the rebuild are ignored and there's this perpetual "grass is greener on the other side" idea that somehow tanking and stacking up top 3 picks will magically build a cup winning team. But glad majority of fans (at least on this board) are opposing that non sense, especially the poster earlier who laid out the facts regarding the rebuilds of teams like Chicago, Florida and Colorado. I'm not even going to get into whatever Buffalo, Edmonton and Arizona have been doing all these years. It also doesn't help that we have the most toxic media in the entire NHL. Completely agree with this post and glad there is a more reasonable outlook on things among a larger portion of fans now. 

 

[[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks @ Toronto Maple Laffs | February 4, 2021 | 4 p.m. PT | SNP]

28 minutes ago, mll said:

Fwiw Barry Trotz says he couldn’t care less about the amount of shots they face.  He says he’s fully confident in their system and won’t give them anything.  A rival coach says they let you shoot but dictate from where.  

 

Unlike NYI, the Canucks don’t seem to limit high danger scoring chances.

 

Last season the Canucks were bottom-5 in mid-to-high danger scoring chances allowed per CSA but Markstrom was the best goalie in saves above expected.  By January they had him winning 8 games above expected based on the type of shots exchanged.  Kevin Woodley often cites them in his segments.

 

CSA defines mid-to-high danger scoring chances as plays that have an expected conversion rate of 10% or more.  CSA is probably the most elaborate tracking out there because they capture the full context of the play that leads to a shot on net - number of screens, passing play, etc.

 

Before this game CSA had the Canucks ranked 30th in high danger expected goals against per 60 so far this season.

 

Thanks, this is a really informed and thought provoking reply. I truly believe our team's struggles lie within this realm of defensive fallacies, and the numbers clearly back it up. 

[[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks @ Toronto Maple Laffs | February 4, 2021 | 4 p.m. PT | SNP]

2 minutes ago, Elias_Pettersson said:

That’s the system, to collapse and let shots from the outside. That’s why we’re always outshot.
 

The thing that bugs me the most is guys backing up at our blue line and letting guys walk right in our zone constantly. 

That's just a brutal system, every shot on goal is a potential scoring chance not matter where it's coming from. Also leads to shaky coverage situations depending on where rebounds or deflections go. I don't understand how the coaching staff doesn't see the correlation between this awful system and the 5+ goals a game that we give up each game

[[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks @ Toronto Maple Laffs | February 4, 2021 | 4 p.m. PT | SNP]

3 minutes ago, DefCon1 said:

That means coaching staff is the problem for how our D plays.

I'm taking that directly from Green from interviews where he explicitly states that he's not worried about high shot totals we give up each game. There is obviously a structural discrepancy in the coaching philosophy where the belief that giving up shots in the ballpark of 40 each game isn't something to worry about or needed to be corrected. So yes, there's a large reason to believe that coaching has a huge hand in the bizarre system our defense is currently executing 

[[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks @ Toronto Maple Laffs | February 4, 2021 | 4 p.m. PT | SNP]

I honestly don't get how Green and the coaching staff casually overlook that we're giving up nearly 40 sog every game. How the heck do you expect to win getting peppered like that. We are statistically the worst defense in the league and it seems to make no difference to the coaching staff. 

[[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks @ Montreal Canadiens | February 1, 2021 | 4 p.m. PT | SNP]

I honestly don't understand how Green & the coaching staff justify allowing so many shots on goal each game. There is an obvious correlation of scoring chances arising with the amount of pucks directed to the net. Makes no sense how they are openly overlooking such a glaring problem which is killing us game after game. 

 

The defensive "system", if we even have one, is clearly not working, and it has been like this for longer than we realize. We just don't have Marky anymore saving the day with 5-6 miraculous saves a game. There needs to be a serious consideration of a coaching change right now. If not Green, then Baumer for sure because what we have is statistically the worse defense in the NHL right now. 

[A realistic analysis of Jim Benning's tenure so far]

8 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Benning inherited Sedins (2) Horvat, Tanev, Markstrom , Kasian*, Kesler*, Edler, Bieska*  and Burrows*

* all traded

The cupboard was not as bare as is suggested. To choose to set the clock at 2017 may be convenient, but to simply discount the previous 3 years is a tad disingenuous. JB has been charge for coming up to 7 years, we can't waive a magic wand and jusr cut short his years  By the way that's roughly the same time as Sakic and Gorton

The poster I'm quoting below is spot on in regards to the first part of your reply. The cupboard was as bare as I can remember any team having in recent years with aging, declining pieces as well as zero elite prospects (I love Bo but he was never considered a grade A prospect). As for the second part, I think it's disingenuous to bind all years of JB's tenure into a single lense or direction. I began with the 2017-2018 timeline because that's when all bets were off from the ownership about playoff runs and JB was given free reigns to rebuild the team. That's when the current trajectory of our team truly begins. It is false to conflate this current direction with the one we had in 2014-2017 when team personnel publicly used to state we were trying to be a competitive playoff team with the previous Sedins led core. 

 

2 hours ago, khay said:

Sedins had NMC.

 

JB took the time to develop Horvat and Markstrom. In particular, Markstrom was given the starting role in the AHL and provided with mentorship from Ryan Miller. Horvat was brought up the right way, starting from the fourth line and up. Along the way, he received mentorship from Richardson, Bonino, Sutter, and Henrik, rather than throwing him to the wolves.

 

Bieksa and Burrows had dwindling values -- Bieksa got us a 2nd, Burrows a prospect. Good trades by JB for couple of guys in their twilight years.

 

Despite everyone on CDC wanting to trade Edler and Tanev, JB stood tall and kept him, which was a great decision. Yes, he lost Tanev for nothing but Tanev was instrumental in Hughes development and the team playing decent hockey last season.

 

Kassian? lol are you kidding? Everyone in the NHL probably was aware of his alcohol problems. I'm glad he fought it off now but he had very little value.

 

Kesler? lol The two-team trade list Kesler?

 

 

[A realistic analysis of Jim Benning's tenure so far]

1 minute ago, Fred65 said:

What's seperates Sakic is the defence has has  assembled. For a number of seasons MacKinnon was not as prominent as he is now, ex  Duchene. Sakic played the Duchene trade like a violin. He got a 1st round pick ( Bowen Byron and Samuel Girard ) and dumped $6 mill. the Avs are the team of the future and likely the best D in the league. NY brought in a GM that as clearly heavily researched ( a relatively unknown ) and cleared out a lot of Cap Space and the drafted well

Agreed. And holy, that Duchene trade was a masterclass. From my point of view, all three GMs in question had completely different starting points and teams they inherited. Sakic had Mack and Landeskog & Duchene as a massive trading chip (it was inevitable he was leaving). Gorton had Zibanejad emerge, the huge fortune of Panarin choosing the NYR, and high, hard to miss draft picks like Kakko, Lafreniere. And Benning inherited only Horvat as a key prospect & an ownership group determined to stay competitive. But as I've originally pointed, since the rebuild became definitive as of 2017-2018, we have trended upwards in a huge way, and in the mix as one of the fastest and most impressive rebuilds without the luxury of 1st and 2nd overall picks, the leverage of huge trading chips or top 10 talent level free agent signings. 

[A realistic analysis of Jim Benning's tenure so far]

3 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

I think we tend to look at the job he's done in isolation. I tend to think the job Sakic has done and Gorton in NY is ahead of Vcr. We can debate the merit of the Virtanen, Juolevi but considering where they were picked we should have  done better. I'm hoping for better from Podkolzyn but IMO it's a coin toss. JB strength we are told are his scouting abilities. IMHO the difference maker for JB was and is the selection of Pettersson. I do not believe in JB's wildest dream that he anticipated how well EP would turn out. Without EP Benning would fall far behind Sakic and Gorton. His management skills can rightfully be questioned. The impact of the Ericksson deal has and continues to be a huge huge hurdle and not far behind is Beagle and Roussel. Ask yourself this question what's the difference between Sautner and Benn. Heck Chatfield is ahead of Benn, that's not good Cap management IMHO. Finally ask if he is replaced do you believe that a replacement will be worse equal of better. I think the odds are a new GM will be better. For too many yeasr it appeared that there was no plan in Vcr .... years wasted

Sakic inherited two huge pieces in Mackinnon and Landeskog, and deserves credit for the trades and draft picks that landed him players like Makar, Rantanen and Girard. But keep in mind Mack and Landeskog are 1st and 2nd overall picks. The highest pick from our core is a 5th. Benning has arguably drafted better than Sakic, with more players selected in a lower order succeeding at the NHL level. Gorton is a tbd scenario. Zibanejad came into his own last year in his 4th year in NY, Panarin literally selected to go to that team, and their prospects are largely unproven up to this point. We are right in the mix of the top recent rebuilds (I would also include Carolina in this)

[A realistic analysis of Jim Benning's tenure so far]

1 minute ago, Convincing John said:

Did Tampa spend to the cap when they drafted their core? 

I'm not sure, but I also don't see how this is relevant man. The fact is, Tampa won in 2020, 12 years after they drafted the first piece of their core. Teams go through ups and downs before they win it all. Washington & St. Louis being other recent examples. As it stands, we're in a good place to compete for many years to come, and it's completely unrealistic to believe we would be making a cup run last year no matter how to reassemble the roster.   

[A realistic analysis of Jim Benning's tenure so far]

8 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

What did he sign like a 9 year contract? Who cares about how big he was in a 2nd round exit. His contract and all the others in the bottom 6 prevent us from exploiting another team in cap trouble. Think about this, he has spent the same amount of money as Tampa has the last 6 years. Haha. I don’t love ANY of his UFA signings. 

I'm unsure how you're comparing us to Tampa. Many teams spend to the cap or close to it under various circumstances, but only 5 teams have won the cup in the past 6 off seasons. Also, much of Tampa's core was drafted over 9 years ago- Stamkos 08, Hedman 09, Kucherov 2011, Palat 2011, etc. Take your own example of the TBL, it takes time to build a cup winning team, even with top end talent like they have. 

 

Edit: You cannot understate the experience that even a second round exit provided to our young players. Using your own example of the TBL again, look how many unsuccessful playoffs runs they had to endure before they finally won it all.  

[A realistic analysis of Jim Benning's tenure so far]

15 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Whoa..that was vintage stuff. Particularly liked them last 2 paragraphs. Lots of HF/twitter hater-types deserve your full post tattooed on their upper-torso!

 

Hey man, you gotta' post more!

Appreciate it! Will try to for sure man. And completely agree about the HF/Twitter audience lol 

[A realistic analysis of Jim Benning's tenure so far]

1 minute ago, Convincing John said:

UFA’s aren’t what they were 5 years ago. This game has changed so dramatically in the last decade. By the time you become a UFA, you’re on your way down. Signing a 28 year old to a 6 year contract is kinda out of style. It’s hard to find a big UFA contract that has had value all the way till the end. If you need to shelter young players, sign your Joe Thornton and Cory Perry deals. Don’t be locking down Jay fricken Beagle. Jay fricken Beagle equivalents are available at any point in time during the season and the next few decades via trade for a super late pick or a cheap and short UFA contract. Cap space should be used as a weapon to make dumber GMs pay for their sins. Take away RFA’s they can’t fit but you can. 

I have to disagree with you, you cannot compare Joe Thornton & Corey Perry at this point in their careers to a guy like Beagle. He was a key part of the 2018 Caps championship team & a monster last year for us in the playoffs. Thornton & Perry are not playing shut down minutes, killing penalties and matching up against the opponent's best players. Our young forwards go out there, play & develop their game without having to worry about stuff that guys like Beagle take care of, tough minutes that often go unnoticed 

[A realistic analysis of Jim Benning's tenure so far]

3 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

He's probably at D+/C- if we're being honest.  I'm not sure you can give points for drafting in the top 5/top 10...aren't you expected to do well in that range?  Evidently, even that's been a tough job because the team dropped the ball on Juolevi & Virtanen and it remains to be seen with Podkolzin.

 

He's passing but only just.  There's probably much better guys out there, especially after 7 years.

I see where you're coming from, that's a genuine way to look at things. But I truly can't analyse his moves until we get to the 2017-2018 season because of the various circumstances preceding that timeline. And in this span, he's shown his shrewdness with things like the JT Miller trade, Schmidt for a 3rd, reasonable contracts with Boes & Bo, as well as his strong draft record. Keep in mind how many teams miss with even top 10 picks, it's more common than it might seem. 

[A realistic analysis of Jim Benning's tenure so far]

5 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

I’ve been silently lurking these boards a long time as well and I’m just so tired of people either blindly defending Benning or blindly hating him. Mind you, the ones who blindly hate Benning end up getting banned. Why can’t we criticize him and love him at the same time? 
 

He is a human who makes human mistakes. He has built a great young core but at the same time he has done horrible damage to this team with his UFA frenzies. Everyone talks about how all these bottom 6 guys are going to be off the books and then it’s cap space galore. We always get excited about cap space when we have expiring veteran contracts. Miller, Sedins, etc. Then UFA day starts and Jim pulls out his pen and it’s gone. When he stops this detrimental UFA addiction every time he has 75 cents in cap space, I’ll call him a legendary GM. Until then, he is just good. 
 

Overall, he is a B-, he’d be an A+ if someone knocked him out and threw him in a closet every July 1st. 

I agree, the next wave of free agency signings will be a big part of his legacy. For the first time he'll be in a position to assemble a true contender, as opposed to looking for role players to shelter and mentor the youngins. 

[A realistic analysis of Jim Benning's tenure so far]

I've been following this forum since 2008 and it's always great to read different perspectives about this team that we all love. Although I've hardly posted over the years, I feel compelled to now because I think we have a team that is unlike any other we've had before; at least within the time frame that I've been following the Canucks (the 02-03 season, the glorious WCE days). 

 

The person at the crux of moulding this roster is the ever polarizing Jim Benning. Love him or hate him, you have to admit that his run as GM, from what he inherited to what he is building up, has been unprecedented. The following is my personal perspective on what his run has been like, and why we must be a little more patient and let him see his vision through. 

 

The end of the Gillis era was one of the most frustrating times for me as a fan. The team had no clear direction, random trades were made on a whim, the embarrassing goalie "controversy" & how that was handled, on top of the fact that we all knew the Sedins had a few more good years in them that were being completely wasted had all of us pretty exhausted. When Benning came in as GM in 2014, it was clear through interviews with him & Linden that the team was still aiming to compete, and moves made in the subsequent couple of years were a clear indication of that objective. Good or bad, it's pretty accurate to ascertain that ownership believed that the team could still be competitive, and moved steadily in that direction. I see every move made in this era as an attempt at a long shot playoff run, whether it's the Loui signing, the various trades, and all else. But things just did not work out, and finally during the 2017-2018 it became clear that we were undergoing a full fledged rebuild. This is where my assessment of Benning's tenure truly starts. 

 

If you guys recall, the 2017-2018 season started off quite strong until injuries decimated us. But Boes & Bo had solid seasons and there was this guy named Pettersson that was tearing it up and breaking records in the SHL. I remember feeling optimistic having 3 legitimate young players on the come up, right as the Sedins played their final season. When was the last time we had something like that? Keep in mind this was just about three years ago, which is not that long of a time span at all. We have witnessed a team that lost its two faces of franchise, was going through misguided hopes of playoff runs, and a guaranteed basement dweller go into its deepest run since 2011 and legitimately in talks of being a long term contender within the span of three years. 

I think a lot of fans would benefit to broaden their perspective on what is going on here. Everything seems to be evaluated on such black & white terms, whereas we have a team in hand that is so ahead of schedule and the envy of many fan bases around the league (whether they want to admit it or not). I look at Detroit, Colorado, Carolina, Toronto, Arizona, Buffalo, Minnesota, Edmonton, even Calgary & Montreal, and how long it took some of them to become competitive. I can't help but feel that some of us really take our situation for granted.

 

On a few critiques that Benning gets, especially pertaining to this off season: There is no way I would be comfortable in having Marky & Tanev to those contracts long term. The only guy we lost that would make sense to still have is Tofolli, but you can't overlook the flat cap & the shady Lou recapture situation that blind sided us. Regardless, I have immense faith in Hog & it wouldn't surprise me if he ends the season with more points than Tofolli. His overall 200 foot game has so much potential as well. On the topic of the bottom six contracts, I agree they might be a bit overpaid, but look at where we were when we signed those guys, that veteran presence was essential. And there is no way we make a playoff run last summer without the likes of Sutter & Beagle. That's another aspect you cannot look at in black and white terms because the value of these guys is what teams like Edmonton, Buffalo, Arizona, and currently Ottawa have all lacked. It is entirely unreasonable to believe that this season or last would be seasons we'd be competing for the cup; the time frame when these contracts hold their greatest weight on the cap overall. When it's said & done, especially with majority of those contracts coming off the books as soon as this off season, I think our team long term in context of creating a team culture and helping our young players develop, has been better off with those guys being around than without them.

 

I want to close by again underscoring the fact that we are in an unprecedented situation. The WCE era and the Sedin era are the two most prolific times our team has had in the past 20 years. But both eras had a 3-4 year window, as those players peaked a bit later in their careers. With the team we have now, we have already gone further than the WCE ever did, and this is a team that has truly only been assembled and taken direction in the last 3 years. The window here to be legitimate contenders seems to be open for several years to come. Our core is young, and they are coming into their own in a positive and competitive team culture & environment, that many other rebuilding teams lacked. And the man at the helm of this has had his ups & downs but he's done something in the last three years that majority of teams around the league would take in a heart beat. So let's keep our perspective focused on the long term, understand the gray areas that challenged our team, and ultimately enjoy this era. I will openly admit I was wrong if management takes a blatant wrong turn, but with the hand that was dealt turning into what we have now, I am greatly looking forward ahead to being a Canucks fan. 

 

Cheers & take care guys

 

 

[PGT Coyotes 1 Canucks 0]

this is what happens when a strong team is ruined by sickening mismanagement..terrible handling of assets and constant change of team direction has led to the collapse of a once elite team..as long as mike gillis calls the shots, our team will suffer from perpetual mediocrity

[[PGT]1 second]

pathetic effort..the team played like this was just a casual pick up game, whereas the ducks played like they had everything to lose..biggest example of that would be the gwg, where daniel gets the puck taken away (i dont even jnow what he was trying to do) and perry scores with 1 second left..even though the game had 5 seconds left, perry still gave it his best effort to get a win right there. that is the difference between stanley cup contenders and the scared to get into the offensive zone team that the canucks currently are.

sorry to say but you would almost never see that kind of effort from a canuck with only 5 seconds remaining in ot.

i hope torts rips them a new butthole tonight after such a shameful effort

[David Booth: Hold onto him?]

no buy him out or trade him in the offseason

sign Callahan 6 x 6mil

Sedin Sedin Bur

Cally Kes Santo

Higgy Horvat Kassin

Hasn Richardson Ses

I don't know whether you or all the other people who suggest signing Callahan are trolls or are actually being serious. You do realize he is the captain of the Rangers and he is extremely valuable to them. They aren't just going to let him go. Even if he does make it to free agency, there will be an abundance of teams trying to sign him.

[David Booth: Hold onto him?]

With Booth playing solid hockey, he brings a balance to this team that we haven't had in the last few years. His cap hit may be questionable, but he is sort of like a Raffi Torres with a stronger offensive upside. The strongest quality Booth brings to our team is that with him, we have 3 solid lines that are offensive threats. Going into the wear and tear of the playoffs, this is absolutely necessary if we want to go far.

Many people are suggesting that we trade him at the deadline for whatever we can get. That is absolutely insane because we will be leaving a hole in our lineup that cannot be easily filled. When the 1st and 2nd lines don't produce, we are able to rely on Booth/Richardson/Kassian to provide a spark and they haven't let us down.

I say we give it until the end of the playoffs and realistically assess Booth's performance and go from there. I he produces solid numbers and helps the team, keep him (cap is going up and he only has one more year left), otherwise look at the market, see if there is an adequate replacement available and consider a trade or a buyout.