canucksnihilist
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Posts posted by canucksnihilist
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And... logic suggests it will be very tight and difficult for the team to make the playoffs based one:
1. This group hasn’t done it before
2. Lots of players are untested and u tested in this group - what role do they best fit in the team, do they have chemistry, etc.
not saying I’m not excited about this coming season - but really the team needs a lot to go right to make it. Like EP and Boeser becoming legit stars. Top 25 or so. And other players having career years or for the younger players finding a new level of game.
and it goes without saying if Meyers or Miller are Eriksson type players then the team is done - as the contracts can’t be bought out. Imagine if Erickson’s contract could be bought out? I have no idea why these kind of deals are made - same money is even ok but just structure them for the team and not just the player. Nobody else wanted Meyers for that $...Nobody else wanted Ericsson. Baffling.
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15 hours ago, spur1 said:
Logic without faith is just fantasy
Good quip
However, logic has nothing to do with faith. Logical analysis examines the facts and determines a conclusion - or at least a probability of a conclusion.
Faith based analysis is the definition of fantasy imho. Faith is believing something to be true based on belief that is not grounded in facts.
Ie religion is a faith. If the hockey team is your religion fair enough... but don’t suggest that logic needs faith to be effective. Where would science be if faith were needed for scientific progress?????
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On 7/31/2019 at 12:42 PM, spur1 said:
Ye of little faith.
No faith. Just logic.
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22 hours ago, spur1 said:
Playoffs start this season. Your assessment of the team is very negative.
Glad u have a crystal ball.
reality is it should be close. The first year a team competes for it they don’t necessarily get in. They aren’t a powerhouse by any means right now
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To compete u need:
1. Two top lines that are scoring threats. Ep, Boeser, Horvat. Miller. Ferland. Pearson?
close... but how does that stack up against a legit contender? If EP is a superstar, meaning he can produce at a ppg pace against top D.... then it looks better.... but no other player in that top 6 is in danger of getting to a 100pt season. And EP is an unknown. He might be a 60-70 point player against top D.
so no... there is no one two legit punch. Let’s see how EP and Boeser develop, but they are the only 2 that might get there. Is that going to carry the team? Sounds like they need a 40 goal helper, and I don’t see the rest of the top 6 anywhere close. Miller isn’t going to do it. We can hope - if EP is a superstar it turns this around. If so it would be in a few years.
2. Shutdown line. Used to have it. But Sutter is done - his speed is gone. That means Bo has to be shutdown, and that means fewer goals for the team. So on this front... no. Maybe gaudette can step up.
3. Dynamic D. Well Hughes might be the real deal. But probably a few years away from really doing it. Nobody else in the team is even close to a game changing defense man. So.... no.
4. Goaltender. Markstrom played lights out for a long time last year. So ya. And if they make the playoffs it will be because of Markstrom. Demko might be a star but we don’t know.
conclusion: if the kids develop enough then yes. But in all likelihood it will be really close. The team will have a better chance in a few years when the young core has played a few seasons together. Then if we can save the cap space and grab a game changer, or keep our draft picks (which always seems elusive in Vancouver) and get lucky then we should be a solid playoff team. But this coming year? I predict a strong start and a February slump (just like the last 4 years) that hopefully the team can overcome.
in any case they aren’t a powerhouse team next year. Maybe in a few years.
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Hard to feel sorry for someone making his salary.
His play just fell off a cliff the season he signed. Not his fault, just he way it worked out.
Pay him 3/4 and this isn’t an issue. Victim of FA - but again, hard to feel sorry for him
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6 hours ago, Alflives said:
Quinn Hughes will score over sixty points this year, win the Calder, get nominated for the Norris, and help us get into the playoffs. I know six other teams foolishly passed on Quinn, so he fell into JB’s lap, but it’s still a draft pick.
The kool-aid sure tastes good doesn’t it?
Sure hope it is legit, would be fun wouldn’t it?
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4 hours ago, teepain said:
Edler stetcher
hughes myers
juolevi benn
if canucks cant move Loui or sutter, tanev may have to go. His cap hit just fixes all our problems
Loui Sutter beagle Schaller.
imagine what the situation would look like if these contracts were structured such that they could be bought out? If only JB could get someone who knows something about risk and contracts..... the players wouldn’t care in all likelihood. If their production declines and they get sent to the minors - they would rather be bought out and then sign a new contract more appealing to nhl teams.
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On 7/16/2019 at 8:15 AM, Googlie said:
Grammar policing is a different animal - e.g. "should of" instead of "should have"
What gets my goat is posters who don't proof read before hitting "submit" - but I try to prod with gentle humor. e.g. one of the more common is "complimentary " instead of "complementary" ..... as in "Jake compliments Bo", to which I reply "I've never read anything about Jake praising Bo"
Hence my subtle dig at "rabbit" instead of "rabid"
Don’t forget that autocorrect is responsible for a lot of errors. So some of the time you are chasing a ghost
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4 hours ago, Alflives said:
Why would we go after an old UFA, who was once a star, and pay him way too much, when we have Petey and Quinn? Our two young super duper stars are 20, and will be in their primes for the next decade.
Well... if that player is a game changer, is a superstar... then ya.
who was good that was available?
1. Remember Chara at 28/29? When he left as a FA from Ottawa?
2. Tavares.
3. Hossa to Chicago
4. Hasek Buffalo
thats is all I can think of. Oh and messier to Vancouver (that’s a joke). But adding a star player is always a good idea. They also last longer and play at a top level longer
makes sense?
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On 7/17/2019 at 2:18 PM, oldnews said:
the ironing is delicious.
"all the players brought in will be boat anchorzzz!"
you're making pretentious claims - in the future - and you expect it to be countered with "facts"? lol.
you aren't talking facts - that's why you got called out in the first place.
Come on man - can’t u take a joke? So serious....
call me out on other posts and I’m happy to banter a bit.
here: how is the team going to sign a top level FA in the next few years? Like a superstar FA? We can’t, that’s how. Maybe waiting is OK. Do you think the trade off for competing now is better than saving cap space for a legit superstar later? Or making a trade for one?
nobody knows if the trade off is worthwhile, but everyone has an opinion
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On 7/16/2019 at 11:54 PM, Canuck Surfer said:
I was against the cost of acquiring Miller.
Until we landed Myers and Ferland for less than I thought. Miller is 26. Pearson 26. Markstrom 29, Roussel 29, Ferland 27, Myers 29.
They may not get better. But are not on the edge of decline either? Only Edler, Sutter and LOL Eriksson. Over that time, hopefully the older players get made redundant by Jake, Gaudette, Lockwood, DiPietro, Madden,Podkolzin, who can also drive business, Woo, Tryamkin & Juolevi.
But the bus will get driven by Horvat, Boeser, Pettersson, Hughes, hopefully Demko & Hoglander when we win a cup. The oldest of whom is Horvat 24. They are our best players. How long we have a Window of Opportunity is up to them! Look at Chicago. They won after Ladd, Byfuglien & others moved on. It was built Keith, Kane & Toews.
The key is only that, ultimately Pettersson, Hughes & Boeser land as advertised.
That window does not have to be short.
Key is to be able to add another EP, Qh, Or Boeser through FA.
NOT another middling player. Support should come through the draft - with top ups at the very top.
Now it can be justly argues that the team had no choice - and I’m ok with that. But the overspending and buyout proof contracts for older players has to stop else we are screwed!
Id also argue that the talent brought in isn’t high enough for the money committed. Chicago got Hosa which really put em over the top. We need that kind of signing... of course now we can’t do that for 3/4 years... so maybe the true window opens in 3/4 years? Until then we are learning how not to lose?
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8 hours ago, oldnews said:
You must be from the future.
Otherwise, what a dumb, pretentious/presumptuous/assumptive comment wadr.
That’s what I’d expect from you... opinion without facts
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In all likelihood the young players will peak 3-4 years from now.
all the support players brought in to make the playoffs now are just to save management jobs. If u think differently u are fooling yourself.
the team needs some young players who can help them in 3/4 years. The rebuild isn’t over - it is at the point where support players need developing.... however that isn’t likely now... All the players brought in so far last year and this year will be anchors just when the core is really ready. Not to mention the anchors that already are on the team. How can u think that plan will win a cup?
It is the nature of FA to overpay and get a return in the first half of the contract. Then suffer during the last half. That is why only teams that are close to a cup spend on FA to put them over the top. Cause it is worth it to win a cup.
however this team is mortgaging the future so they can make the playoffs. Not to win a cup. Sure if the new core are the best players in the league it all works out... but that won’t happen - if it happens - for a few years.
does anyone else see this not making sense? Except to make sure JBs contract is renewed?
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8 hours ago, coastal.view said:
well i guess fans like to think it is their money that is being spent
i don't, so it really does not matter to me
i'm more concerned about seeing a steady progression or development of the core players
which appears to be on track
and that the team avoids cap hell that some teams are now facing due flawed planning
so i think the chances of avoiding early overspending
is somewhat inhibited by having cap space at this stage of the team building tied up
as it increases greatly the chances it will be properly assigned to the key players
since it will only become available when they expect significant contracts
suggesting acquiring subban at this stage of team building
is appealing
but his contract term and aav will in fact most likely create
the same salary cap hell we see in other teams this off season
so your appetite for him only confirms my comfort with the present salary cap situation
making him unaffordable to the team
The money and cap is a logical part of team building and it’s structure. It is as important sometimes as the players that are on the team. Sometimes!/ fans don’t think it is their money..... not sure where you get that but it is way of base and topic imho
a case in point: if we hit home runs and get awesome players the next 5 years in the draft, maybe we can’t afford to pay them and will have to trade them...: and keep some of the older less talented FAs that were signed. Depends how awesome they are and what they are worth of course. But that is exactly the concern - and how it correlates with development.
The team is just trying to make the playoffs now - and I applaud their attempts. However I hope a different mentality governs decisions once that goal has been achieved. One that correlates with your more long term vision
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5 hours ago, IBatch said:
NO. Subban is overrated and wouldn’t surprise me if one of Hughes, Myers or even Edler outscore him. In NSH he was used against a much lower level of competition then Weber sees in MTL (the best) and could still barely manage 40 points. Much rather have Benn and Myers, who are at least as good defensively. At that price he should be doing it all and still be a Norris quality guy (which I don’t ever think he was, he robbed EK of a Norris)....Josi was their top guy. Maybe he has a bounce back year but I think he won’t and NJ will come to regret this move.
Ok sure.
That wasn’t the choice I had - it was subban vs beagle/ Schaller / Erik/ Sutter m
Not sure that subban is washed up? Haven’t seen him play in a while - but when he was with the canadiens he was awesome....
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3 hours ago, coastal.view said:
i'm not really worried about that issue
it is a forced savings plan to some extent
those funds will be freed up when we need the money the most
to deal with new contracts for hughes and ep40
not sure how you think that could be done if subban's huge contract was added this off season ?
Just saying in retrospect there are better ways to have spent that money. Wouldn’t you rather have subban than those players?
Not or saying that spending the money was a bad idea - just the return. The team will be tight when signing the core - but every team is. It all comes down to: does it matter? If the core is good enough to dominate it won’t matter if we have to lose some deals to keep them together. Hope so! We will see
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The core rebuild is over.
And the band aid has been applied that is the supporting cast.
if the core 4/5 are all stars we are done. Can we afford to sign them with the anchor contracts we have? Hopefully. I guess we are testing the theory that u can’t build a team through FA
anchor contracts: 13 million for basically nothing. Imagine the team of these anchors were never signed? Maybe we would have PK Subban on the team, and could be a true competitor.
erik
sutter
beagle
but that’s what FA is all about. U get a player for a few years and then are screwed for a few years.... that’s why it’s hard to build through FA.
The team has to get way way way more creative than they have been of they can pull it off.
will be interesting! Really if the core 4/5 are all stars we are OK. If they are just stars we are screwed
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Make Orr break this coming season.
got a good chance... I like this Ferland deal. It it all comes down to chemistry. Hope it works out.
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The contract is by the way: buy out proof.
no idea why JB keeps giving away buyout proof contracts..... sure would be nice to buy out eriksson now wouldn’t it?
meyers gets 16m up front. So a buyout doesn’t give them any real cap relief. And... there is a chance this is a contract the next management team might want to buy out. Or maybe JB.... hope he makes it but his contracts mean the team can’t make it to that next level... so far....
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Man reality is tough for so many of you
its obvious these are terrible contracts:
1. Eriksson
2. Schaller
3. Sutter.
4. Gagner
the 4th line is the most expensive in the league...
don't u are a pattern here?
Sure there are awesome things too .... but can’t u be objective at all? Can u actually think about what is real instead of what you want reality to be? Some of your posts - looks like you work for the Canucks or something.
young core development? Drafting? Jb is awesome. Those are his strengths
getting value from contracts - getting the team a good deal? When did that ever happen?? Name one instance please? Even just one! It doesn’t exist. Make a trade that benefitted the team? Where vancouver is the clear winner? Not even a steal just a great trade? Nope.
so why is it such a reach to see reality.
pick up your paycheck at the front office on your way out - if u aren’t getting paid then there is something wrong with some of you
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Seems the Canucks couldn’t get P.K. subban because we spent too much on the 4th line last year. That’s one thing that stands out in this article (below). Not that it was a slam dunk he would come here however, but this does negate a lot of opinions about how the overspending won’t hurt the club. Nobody would rather have an expensive 4th line over P.K. subban.....
Bennings one weakness. He doesn’t negotiate contracts very well compared to his peers. I would love it if they actually hired a capologist and let someone other than Benning make the money decisions.
like him or not it’s a decent read and makes some j retesting points:
Patrick Johnston: Canucks face salary cap complications with free-agent talent available
The Canucks' messy cap situation means they may not be able to make many big moves in the coming days.
https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/canucks-facing-down-cap-crunch-as-free-agency-get-set-to-open-
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9 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said:
We can not make any moves and it would be better this. Lucic though. Not that high of a bar to clear.
Can’t understand you...
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The trade is decent. The window isn’t 10 years but 5.... but by then we assume another top 6 forward will slot in(the Russian we just drafted).
We we really did need a larger top 6 forward. If u go by archetype this is 1000 times better than Lucic
Are we a playoff team next year?
in Canucks Talk
Posted
No... based on statistics and history
Not sure why you don’t think that logic exists without faith - please explain your thinking process.