Baggins
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Posts posted by Baggins
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Then you clearly don't understand what makes a powerplay successful.
A D-man that can move the puck up the ice, QB from the point, and get the puck through traffic on net is key to any powerplay.
Garrison and Edler cannot do these things because they lack elite skating, hockey sense and accurate shots. One of these two need to go this summer in order to acquire a player who can fill the role they're supposed to.
The numbers speak for themselves. Ehrhoff was the key to the powerplay because of his hard accurate shot and ability to gain and hold the zone. Every top team in the playoffs has a player that can do this. The Canucks don't
I don't buy that at all. He's given far more credit than he deserves for Sedin success. His first season here was also Burrows first full season on the Sedins wing. I think Burr's 35 goals & 32 assists had a greater effect on the Sedins numbers than replacing Salo with Ehrhoff. Also the Sedins increased pp numbers in 10/11 coincides with moving Kesler to the first pp unit. In 09/10 the Sedins combined for 48 pp points with Ehrhoff on their point. The only change to the pp in 10/11 when they combined for 77 pp points was Kesler.
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The guy was the best value in hockey for 4 years making "only" $2 million per when he was producing at a level where he easily should have earned at least double that. Not to mentioned being a heart and soul guy on the team.
So I don't begrudge him earning what he's making now. He's earned every penny.
Most here are, and always will be, what have you done for me lately fans. I've never seen so many so quick to turn on their own players. It's pretty sad.
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It's days like today I ask myself. Where is Canuckelion?
He didn't survive Bieksa getting re-signed.....
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And yet if he was planning on forcing a trade (which was the rumour to begin with) then why enrol his son in school in Vancouver and, again, why bother saying it on top of, "I love this city and want to stay here," if he's just trying to calm the rumours or be a good team guy?
Personally I think tas is really hoping Kesler is moved and is thus simply believing what he wants regarding Keslers honesty about the city.
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the point though is that no player would ever give less than a very positive review of the city they live in while speaking publicly. "i love it here and we have the best fans in the world" is a stock response for any player in any city in any circumstance. it doesn't necessarily represent their true feelings.
I agree regarding the fans. I'm not so sure any players actually love the fans. Not so much regarding the city though. Although a player is unlikely to slag the city while still there, if he didn't like the city he would be unlikely to stick around for a decade or more.
But still, you can't say what the player says doesn't represent his true feelings either. Do you know Kesler personally and what his opinion is away from the general public? I'll guess not. Therefore you can't make any assumptions about his honesty regarding the city. It really isn't the same a band passing through town.
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every fanbase has douchebags in it
The Canucks just have a heaping helping of them.
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Agreed but the real issue is Ryans desire to win the cup, and our desire to rebuild with high end youth.
Kesler can demand to stay all he wants but his career will go nowhere and he will waste the glory years of his prime. Our team wont be a true contender anytime soon.
For some location is more important than money or even an improved shot at the cup. Lacking the proverbial crystal ball you can't really say it would be impossible for him to win a cup playing here. You could have said the same about Mitchell signing in LA. What a waste of time for his career. They backed their way in to the playoffs and were rather unexpected winners. You never know what will happen down the road and Kesler still has years of playing time ahead of him. In the end it will be his decision alone to stay or go based solely on what he sees as best for himself and his family.
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Pouliot is 20 years old - 2 years (23 months) older than Honka.
Honka isn't as high profile but I wouldn't be so quick to prejudge him - if you do an age comparable, Honka has just as impressive numbers in the Dub, particularly if you consider that he's playing for Swift Current and not the absolutely stacked Portland Winterhawks.
Which at that age a quite an advantage in junior over an 18 year old. It's an extra two years of physical and mental maturity while playing against kids as young as 16.
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a player saying they love the city they play in is equivalent to a rock band referencing the town they're performing in during a live show.
its carries no weight.
A rock band that appears in a city once a year is not quite the same as a hockey player that lives 9 to 10 months in one city for a decade with his wife (sometimes a local girl) and their kids now is it. I'd have to give the hockey players honest opinion of the city far, far more weight than a band just passing through.
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Have you ever had enough of someone who is an obvious meat head/bully/whatever else? Maybe had the balls to push back and let them know they are full of crap? Well Torts did that, and maybe to a fault because in the larger context it became a lightning rod for criticism, public scrutiny etc etc. Everybody wants their NHL coaches to be gentlemen right?
No doubt Torts took issue with the other coach, and it wasn't the only time either. crap happens.
Torts ain't no saint.....
On Dec. 20, 2011, coach John Tortorella’s New York Rangers visited their rivals the New Jersey Devils at Prudential Center in Newark for the first time that season. It was a key division game, and one that would set the tone for the rest of their season series.
The Rangers, as the road team, would determine the personnel on the opening faceoff. In their previous two road games, New York started No. 1 center Brad Richards’ line for the opening draw. In this game, Tortorella opted for a different look: Fourth liners Mike Rupp, Ruslan Fedotenko and Brandon Prust.
Devils Coach Pete DeBoer responded in kind: Rather than throwing Zach Parise to the lions, like Randy Carlyle did when he lined Phil Kessel up next to John Scott this season, DeBoer skated out Cam Janssen, Eric Boulton and Tim Sestito.
The result? Comedic mayhem.
What might have been a line brawl to begin the game was instead Rupp vs. Janssen. David Clarkson and Brandon Dubinsky would have another fight 1:44 later. Whatever spark Tortorella was searching for, it appeared to work: The Rangers won the game, 4-1.
Fast forward three months, and the Rangers and Devils met again at Madison Square Garden. This time it was DeBoer that sent out the goons: Eric Boulton, Ryan Carter and Cam Janssen. Tortorella was forced to send out Brandon Prust, Brandon Dubinsky and Mike Rupp. Dubinsky was recovering from sinus damage, so defenseman Stu Bickel took the opening draw, knowing what was bound to happen.
Tortorella loudly scolded DeBoer from the Rangers’ bench, pointing and hurling F-bombs at the opposing coach … for doing exactly what he had done in Jersey months earlier.
“I guess in John’s world you can come into our building and start your tough guys, but we can’t do the same in here,” DeBoer said. “He’s either got short-term memory loss or he’s a hypocrite. So it’s one of the other.”
Said Janssen, via Fire & Ice: “If they didn’t want to do it and didn’t think it was necessary, then they wouldn’t have done it. It takes two guys to fight and we both agreed upon and we both obviously thought it was necessary and that’s why we did it."
Tortorella’s response when asked about the line brawl: It was “none of my business” who the Devils started in the game.
When asked about the Canucks/Flames line brawl on Saturday night, Tortorella said: "I thought my players responded tremendously," said Tortorella. "Listen - it shouldn't be in the game, that stuff. I don't want it in the game. But I have to protect my team, too. So all the pundits, all the people pissing and moaning, they don't have a clue what a locker-room's about. They don't understand the whole circumstance involved in that type of situation."
But Tortorella does. Because he’s used the tactic himself, and he’s been the victim of it.
When he’s dishing out the medicine, it’s part of the game. When he’s tasting it, it shouldn’t be in the game. And when he’s tasting it courtesy of a coach he has little respect for, it makes him completely snap.
Torts can dish it out but he clearly can't take it. Hartley played him for the hotheaded fool he is.
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That's great, now figure out how many quality shots did Garrison take compare to Ehrhoff.
I supplied the available factual stats. You supply opinion without evidence. So if that's you're argument YOU prove it.
That aside my response was regarding the ability to HIT the net. Opinion says Ehrhoff was better than Garrison. Facts say otherwise.
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So one reporter starts saying square peg in round hole and it becomes doctrine? How about thinking on your own?
As for the Canucks, they are not built to play in the Pacific. Gillis threw his own team under the bus by stating everyone except the Sedins is available. Yet, he goes on and trades Luongo for spare change. Kesler, with rumored deal on the table from Pittsburgh, Detroit, Toronto, Chicago and Anaheim, no deal. Edler? refuses to waive.
I don't blame Torts one bit and he did change his approach after that Dallas game.
He also said, because of injury, he had to adapt his system to reflect the lack of depth, and most importantly, didn't revert to the original system "soon enough".
Calm down bud.
You appear to be the one worked up.
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Therefore, so how about that Tortorella guy. You know... the Canucks' coach with three years and $6.000 MIL left on his contract?
Is he the exception to the rule and can only coach one style?
He said himself back in January he either needs to change his system or get new players. He didn't get new players and I didn't see him change his system. It seems he'd rather try to put square pegs in round holes than change his system.
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No cause Salo filled the role of Ehrhoff in 09/10.
I said it wasn't completely Ehrhoff, but the importance of having a defenseman that can get the puck through should never be understated.
Try and keep up.
Ehrhoffs shooting 10/11
Shot on goal = 209
Shots taken = 307
% of shots taken being on goal = 68.1%
Garrisons shooting 13/14
Shots on goal = 181
Shots taken = 260
% of shots taken being on goal = 69.6%
Ehrhoff is a god, Garrison can't hit the net. Funny how perceptions work here.
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I disagree.
Maybe they weren't completely reliant on Ehrhoff, but go back and check how many of his goals in his career season were either tips in front of the net, or rebounds off the pads.
You need a defenseman that can get the puck on net at the perfect height for those goals to be scored. Ehrhoff was a master at getting pucks on net. Garrison and Edler on the other hand couldn't hit the net all season. More of their shots went off of forwards shin pads than anywhere near the net.
Kesler PP goals:
09/10 - 12 g (2nd unit no Ehrhoff) 2:45pp ice time per game
10/11 - 15 g (1st unit with Ehrhoff) 3:37 pp ice time per game
Was his whopping 3 pp goal increase really due to Ehrhoff or the 33% increase in pp ice time combined with having the Sedins as linemates? I really do believe Ehrhoff is getting far too much credit on this board.
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Honestly, I have my problems with Torts, but anyone who tries to blame this teams lackluster performance this season on him, or at least a majority on him, didn't watch the same season I watched. At the beginning of the year, this team was playing well and it was evident Torts was one of the reasons. Then injuries came down and we pretty much had to field a roster of scratches, AHL players, and players just coming off injured reserve just to go back again. As he said, our group is old and stale without youth, excitement, spark, etc. That's why Santorelli was so big when we were hot. He provided energy throughout the lineup similar to how Burrows used to do before he was also played with injuries this year. Torts was given a roster good enough to be a wild card team or possibly, barely in the division top 3, had to deal with more injuries than I have ever seen in my life, and didn't really get the young guys in the lineup he wanted to. If I remember correctly, Torts was an advocate of Horvat and Shink at least getting 5 or so games with the team to see if they could possibly stay. Torts is a good coach. Just wait until next year when he has a healthy talented roster with some youth.
However, one thing I'll admit he is not good at, or whoever the special teams coach is, is the PP… Need to get better at that as soon as possible.
I don't recall any rumblings about keeping junior prospects for a regular season try out. Horvat simply wasn't very good in the preseason and Torts said himself Shink needed to work on his strength and was too easy to knock off the puck. The only rumblings about bonus games were from the fans here on this board.
That said, if I recall correctly there wasn't anybody on the opening roster who wasn't waiver eligible. Is it worth risking a player to waivers to give a kid you've already decided isn't ready a 5 or even 9 game try out? You decide he is going back to junior and you've already lost Santorelli to waivers. You don't risk losing you're depth to give a kid you know isn't ready a few bonus NHL games.
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I don't understand what your saying, is it that kess should be on the second unit pp?
Actually the way the game is reffed now he might as well go back to the 2nd pp unit and help make it more effective. But what I'm saying is it was adding Kesler to the 1st unit in 10/11 that gave the Sedins a huge pp production boost and making it the top pp in league, not Ehrhoff. In 08/09 without Ehrhoff the Sedins combined for 50 pp points. In 09/10 with Ehrhoff added on the 1st unit the Sedins combined for 48 pp points. Hmm, adding Ehrhoff didn't make any significant difference on their pp production. In 10/11 they combined for 77 pp points. What changed from those previous two seasons? Kesler was moved to the 1st unit.
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No, that would indicate Ehrhoff was the driving force of the powerplay and made Kesler's point production insanely high. Once Ehrhoff left, Kesler has been horrible on the man advantage, standing around waiting for the puck, because none of our defensemen can hit the net for those juicy rebounds or make those nice passes for the open net tap ins for him.
Ehrhoff was here the season before. Ehrhoff had no effect on the 2nd unit production from 09/10 to 10/11. Removing Kesler is the common factor there. Ehrhoff was here for 09/10 season playing 1st pp unit. So what changed in 10/11? Um, Kesler was moved up to the first unit. Many here highly overrate Ehrhoff.
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Kesler is not the player fans, the media, the management, thinks he is. He is the best third line C in the game or a great winger and the best part of his game is playing big and taking advantage of his body size and reach, and his hits.
If he still has that shot he hasn't done much to demonstrate that since padding his stats with a bucket of powerplay goals in 2010-2011. Can't complain because nobody else on the team is scoring enough but just consider a few basic concepts: The good players in this game make others around them better. Kesler does not do this. Kesler takes the puck and tries to ram it through 3 defending players before chucking the puck at a teammate as a last ditch effort to maintain possession. Lost count of how many times that happened during transition, it's so frustrating to watch one guy trying to beat everyone by himself and failing.
Look at him for what he is. He is not a snipe shot with accuracy, in other words he's not a Perry or a Stamkos type guy, and he's not a playmaker. He got 41 goals one season and 50 assists during another and both seem to be an anomaly. He's not a guy that makes his teammates better, apparently, or the guys on his line jst don't have enough finish.
The man gets prickly when people ask him about it, and other things. He's not a thick skinned guy or a typical locker room leader. John Toews never sounds mopey or deflective, even pissy during interviews. Ryan Kesler is a great third line centre and this year we saw what he can do when the going gets rough- did he put the team on his back and go into the beast mode everyone talked about for so long? No. Seen him do it over the course of 2-3 games once or twice a year though.
The expectations on the guy are totally unrealistic, and to me anyway he's not what people think he is. If he succeeds somewhere else it will be due to other players making him more effective, something outside the scope of the big man's game he plays. He won that selke for being enthusiastic without the puck but tbh he looked uninterested this year and we've probably seen the best of him as a Canuck already. When the going gets tough , the rats flee the sinking ship, and the captain stays on board. Is Ryan the 'captain' of this team, or now that the going got rough, is he seeking a way out?
His pp stat padding in 10/11 amounted to a whopping 4 points. In 10/11 on the 1st unit with the Sedins he had 30 pp points. The previous season playing 2nd unit with Raymond and Samuelsson he had 26 pp points. It was actually the Sedins who had a big increase in pp production when Kesler joined them. Oddly the 2nd unit had a big drop in 10/11 without Kesler. That would seem to indicate it was in fact Kesler that was the driving force on the pp for the 09/10 and 10/11 seasons.
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Kesler has an NTC not a NMC
A NMC means no movement, period!
A NTC could mean many different scenarios, depending on the language of the contract.
If Management told Kesler to supply a list, then he is contractually obligated to supply one if it is in his contract.
I believe Kesler when he says he wants to stay.
No he's not required to do anything as he has a full NTC. A full NTC gives him the legal right to decline any trade. The difference with a NMC is a player can't be traded or sent to the minors without his permission. A full NTC doesn't prevent a player from being sent to the minors but does give him the right to decline any trade.
You're confusing a full NTC with a limited NTC. A limited NTC will have a set of conditions attached within the players contract. Those conditions can vary greatly from contract to contract.
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The Incredibly Strange Creatures Who Stopped Living & Became Mixed-Up Zombies (1963)
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If you want to just look at stats and not what both players bring to the table on the ice. Man did you even watch in 2010-11 ? The Hoff ran the PP and also made Edler look like a future stud dman.
I did watch. Did you? Henrik controls the PP and always has from the half boards. If Hoff is the PP QB you think he is why has he not enjoyed the same success without Henrik with Buffalo's top players? Why does he not hit the net there more than the "can't hit the net" Garrison here? Answer those questions. The stats don't lie. Garrison is actually hitting the net more than Ehrhoff is.
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garrison is slow(real slow), does hit/check,gets beat regularly to the outside, has a terrible first pass and can't hit the net with his shot. he is possibly the most overrated player on this team.
if he's a top 4 it speaks volumes why this team has struggled so much since his arrival.
hopefully they trade or buy him out.
Ya, it's a shame we didn't keep Ehrhoff.....
Garrison - 79 games played 7 goals
Shots on goal - 179
Missed shots - 79
% of shots taken being on goal - 69.4%
Shooting % - 3.9%
Ehrhoff - 77 games played 6 goals
Shots on goal - 161
Missed shots - 74
% of shots taken being on goal - 68.5%
Shooting % - 3.7%
Well at least we don't have Garrison signed until he's 40.....
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How is anyone surprised? Fans wanted it and the owners acknowledged that.
Oh it was a bad move. Give me a break. No it wasn't, he's screwed up this team is about time he's got fired. Time to start the healing. However if they hire Jay Feaster as the new GM we would have been better off with Gillis.
Today was a good day. First step towards becoming better.
If the fans are running the team it's really in trouble.
[Report] Torts wanted to buy out Alex Burrows
in Canucks Talk
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Winner of the longest fart on cdc. Just keep blowing it out your.....