BuckyHermit Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 At this time, I'd like to scold Nitronuts for not letting us know about the Templeton Station open house. What gives, man? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Doubt there is 5+ Billion lying around. My suggestion is upgrading the Inter-urban line from Scott Road to Langley with future expansion to Abbotsford - Scott Road Skytrain station would be renovated to become terminus for the Interurban line and major bus hub. There is room to construct an interuban platform withing walking distance to the Skytrain. Shuttle bus services to connect with Vancouver Airport, BC Ferries using South Permiter Road and Wal Nut Grove and Maple Ridge also using south perimter road. Phase 1- stops at Scott Road, North Delta (Kennedy), Newton, Sullivan Station, Cloverdale Phase 2-Langley Centre -may take a couple years as right of way is difficult with roberts bank rail traffic; new track will have to be built between Cloverdale and Langley. Phase 3- Abbotsford (Maybe Aldegrove) Expansion -same problem as Langley as new track will need to be built. Either extensive upgrade of current interurban line or complete new track built between Abbotsford, Aldedgrove and Langley. Abbotsford Airport Shuttle from Abbotsford station; Follows the Buggernut map. Phase 4 Chilliwack Expansion- extensive upgrade of interurban track from Abbotsford to Chilliwack -If line is upgraded it would connect Langley Centre to Skytrain in under 25 minutes. -Initial Cost would be well under $250 million. -same concept as Portland's commuter rail WES "> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Here is my idea for a high speed rail line in the Lower Mainland: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&...6c774769988c9f3 Rationale for choice of alignment: It addresses the need for rail transit in the Valley. I think it'll only encourage sprawl.Space on Sea Island is limited, and future airport expansion in the region should be directed to Abbotsford International. This alignment provides a connection between the two airports. YVR with its existing land on Sea Island will have the capacity to reach 40-million passengers per year....and we won't reach that for at least 70 years? (assuming teleportation devices won't be invented by then). Even so, it's likely that YVR will remain as the region's international airport while YXX/Abby will become a major regional airport - perhaps attracting several million passengers per year by 2050.It directs tourists to the Bridgeport hub with the River Rock Casino next to it, where they can be milked of their money. :D lmao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 So Templeton is just a park, ride and fly? I believe it will be long-term parking and some employee parking...plus office parks, potential retail, and a satellite check-in terminal facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Here’s a little update about the third SeaBus, which is currently being built over at the Victoria Shipyards. Along with two photos, I got this email from fleet management this morning: I thought you might be interested to know that the hulls and the superstructure of the 3rd SeaBus have now been connected! Or at least, they’ve been assembled, and will now be welded together. The mast hasn’t been mounted to the vessel yet, but they’re expecting to do that later this week. One more photo of the SeaBus under construction is below. FYI, the third SeaBus is slated to go in service at the end of 2009. Here’s an earlier post showing the passenger house arriving at the shipyards in February. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Ya, not bad. And then extend skytrain to Cloverdale and put an intermodal station there. Then go direct south with the high speed rail connection to Seattle and beyond. Terminating HSR in Cloverdale, of all places, won't exactly leave a good impression of the region to the visitors. And it'll be something like an hour long Skytrain ride from Cloverdale to DT Van, with all the stops inbetween, for both tourists and Valley commuters alike. YVR with its existing land on Sea Island will have the capacity to reach 40-million passengers per year....and we won't reach that for at least 70 years? (assuming teleportation devices won't be invented by then). Even so, it's likely that YVR will remain as the region's international airport while YXX/Abby will become a major regional airport - perhaps attracting several million passengers per year by 2050. Didn't you say they may need to build another runway out onto the sea? I'd rather they expanded YXX instead. Plus, spreading the load among multiple airports instead of pushing either to the limit is better for aviation safety, though it may come at the price of convenience, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 ^ I’m all for YXX’s growth, but let’s be realistic about this – most of this growth will continue to be locally derived domestic and charter demand that is generated by population growth in the valley, not international or even transborder flights. Nevermind YXX, YVR is having trouble keeping its international flights. There are very few North American cities that are able to attract significant international traffic to a secondary airport. Those cities that are capable have tens of millions of people, cities like London, NYC, Los Angeles, Tokyo, etc. YXX could build it, but it won't be exactly "built it and they will come". YXX should certainly grow as market demands, but there's no need to turn it into Vancouver's Mirabel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 ^ I’m all for YXX’s growth, but let’s be realistic about this – most of this growth will continue to be locally derived domestic and charter demand that is generated by population growth in the valley, not international or even transborder flights. Nevermind YXX, YVR is having trouble keeping its international flights. There are very few North American cities that are able to attract significant international traffic to a secondary airport. Those cities that are capable have tens of millions of people, cities like London, NYC, Los Angeles, Tokyo, etc. YXX could build it, but it won't be exactly "built it and they will come". YXX should certainly grow as market demands, but there's no need to turn it into Vancouver's Mirabel. I was actually hoping for an eventual transfer to YXX as the region's main airport. Sea Island looks like a good place for a park, wildlife sanctuary and a ferry terminal to Nanaimo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Have you ever heard of Mirabel Airport? That's what YXX would be, if attempted to be a major international airport today...or in the next 50 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) Have you ever heard of Mirabel Airport? That's what YXX would be, if attempted to be a major international airport today...or in the next 50 years. Maybe it's something we should plan ahead for 50 years from now. Eventually phasing out YVR and turning its site into a ferry terminal and green space doesn't seem like a bad idea to you, does it? Edited June 4, 2009 by Buggernut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 It sounds easy on paper, in reality it'll be quite difficult. And really, being right outside the border of the centre of Canada's third largest region, Sea Island is a great location for an airport. We've also invested billions and billions and billions and billions into Sea Island, and for all of that to be wasted? To phase out YVR would mean to stop growth at the airport and take one huge gamble that would most likely, 99%, fail. Anyhow, on Mirabel...from wiki (take note of the red): The 1960s saw Montreal experience a tremendous economic boom. Massive construction projects, including the Montreal Metro coupled with the hosting of Expo 67 brought the city international status. More and more visitors were arriving to the city, especially by airplane, though not always by choice. The federal government required that European airlines make Montreal their only Canadian destination. This resulted in 15–20% annual growth in passenger traffic at the city's Dorval Airport. Optimistic about the city's future and its continuing ability to attract more and more visitors, government officials decided to build a new airport that would be more than able to absorb increased passenger traffic well into the 21st century. The Canadian Ministry of Transport studied five possible sites for Montreal's new airport: Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu (50 km to the southeast), Vaudreuil (40 km to the west), Joliette (70 km to the north), St-Amable (30 km to the northeast), and St. Scholastique (60 km to the northwest). Expropriation In March 1969, the federal as well as provincial governments reached a compromise to locate at the St. Scholastique site, and proposals were drawn up to expropriate 97,000 acres (390 km2), an area larger than the entire city of Montreal. It is served only by a long road link via Autoroute 15 and Autoroute 50. An additional link via Autoroute 13 was planned but never completed. Also planned but not finished was the connection of Autoroute 50 to the Ottawa/Gatineau area. The federal government expropriation resulted in making Mirabel the world's largest airport by property area. (King Fahd International Airport in Saudi Arabia later surpassed Mirabel as the world's largest airport by property area, a record it still retains). The airport's operations zone, which encompassed what was eventually built plus expansion room, amounted to only 17,000 acres (69 km2), about 19% of the total area of the airport. The federal government planned to use the excess land as a noise buffer and as an industrial development zone that was never started. This attracted the ire of the people of St. Scholastique who protested vehemently against the expropriation of their land. Nevertheless, construction started in June 1970 under the auspices of BANAIM, a government organization formed to build the airport. Operational History and Decline Montreal International Airport opened for business on October 4, 1975, in time for the 1976 Summer Olympics. In the rush to get the airport open in time for the Olympics, it was decided to transfer flights to Mirabel in two stages. International flights would be transferred immediately, while domestic and transborder flights would continue to be served by Dorval airport until 1982. The federal government predicted that Dorval would be completely saturated by 1985 as part of its justification for building Mirabel. They also projected that 20 million passengers would be passing through Montreal's airports annually, with 17 million through Mirabel. That claim never materialized, for by 1991 Mirabel and Dorval handled a total of 8 million passengers and 112,000 tons of cargo annually, while Toronto was handling 18.5 million passengers and 312,000 tons of cargo. Mirabel alone never managed to exceed 3 million passengers per year in its existence as a passenger airport. After 1976, Mirabel and Dorval began to decline in importance due to the increasing use in the 1980s of longer-range jets that did not need to refuel in Montreal before crossing the Atlantic, and this trend commenced during Mirabel's planning stages. Also, the enactment of French language protection laws caused Montreal to lose its status as Canada's leading business centre in favour of Toronto.[citation needed] These factors dramatically reduced the amount of projected air traffic into Dorval. The result was that a second airport was no longer needed, so Mirabel became a pariah airport in Canada, with only Air Transat holding out until the very end. The Control Tower, Mirabel Airport To ensure Mirabel's survival, all international flights for Montreal were banned from Dorval from 1975 to 1997. However, public pressure in support of Dorval prevented its planned closure, yet Dorval's continued existence made Mirabel comparatively expensive and unattractive to airlines and travelers alike. Dorval was only 20 minutes away from the city core while it took 50 minutes to get to Mirabel in ideal traffic conditions. Passengers who used Montreal in transit had to take long bus rides for connections from domestic to international flights, while Montrealers resented Mirabel as they were forced to travel far out of town for international flights. Many international airlines, faced with the stark economic reality of operating two Canadian points of entry, opted to overfly Montreal by landing instead in Toronto with its better domestic and US connections. The simultaneous operating of both Montreal airports resulted in Dorval being overtaken in traffic first by Toronto and then relegated to third by Vancouver International, as international airlines were slow to return to Dorval after it resumed handling international flights in 1997. Over time the decreasing passenger flights began to take a toll on businesses within Mirabel, particularly notable was the 354 room Chateau Aeroport-Mirabel hotel adjacent to the terminal, which was forced to shut down in 2002 after 25 years of operation. Debate In the late 1990s, Maclean's interviewed one resident, whose farm was expropriated, who said that his land was sacrificed to save the city. He was particularly critical of the Trudeau government for not closing Dorval as well as failing to recognize Mirabel's potential, as no legislation similar to the Wright Amendment was enacted that would force airlines to use Mirabel instead of Dorval. Supporters of making Mirabel the sole international airport of Montreal pointed out that it had the capacity to be expanded significantly to meeting growing future demand, unlike Dorval. They also noted that Dorval could be closed and its land be developed for prime real estate, and some of the profits could go towards improving access routes to Mirabel and/or the airport itself. The initial location of Mirabel was supposed to be a major justification for the project, not only because of its expansion room, but also the afforded buffer which would significantly reduce noise pollution in urban areas. However, advances in engine technology have significantly reduced aircraft noise. Inner city airports such as Houston Hobby, Dallas Love Field and San Diego International Airport are examples of successful inner-city airports that live with city-dwellers around them. Today The CAD$716 million expansion of Dorval from 2000-05 gave it the ability to serve 20 million passengers a year, ironically accomplishing one of the goals that was to be met with the construction of Mirabel. (In the 1970s, the federal government projected that 20 million passengers would be passing through Montreal's airports annually by 1985, with 17 million through Mirabel). Aéroports de Montréal financed all of these improvements itself, with no government grants.[8] Today, Montreal-Mirabel International Airport is used almost exclusively for cargo flights, with passenger operations having ceased on October 31, 2004, twenty-nine years after the airport's opening and many years of limited, primarily charter service. Bombardier Aerospace launches newly constructed units from its factory at Mirabel, and Bell Helicopter operates a commercial helicopter facility at Mirabel. With very little or, later, no airline service, and with many empty spaces inside its terminal, Mirabel has been the setting of several movies, TV series, and commercials for many years. The movie The Terminal features the mezzanine overlooking the immigration desks and the baggage carousels directly behind them, the tarmac and the main terminal entrance (with a digitally added New York skyline reflection). All other terminal scenes were shot elsewhere. In 2006, I-Parks Creative Industries, a French firm that specializes in the creation of urban tourist attractions, and Oger International SA, the global engineering company owned by the family of slain former Lebanese prime minister and entrepreneur Rafik Hariri, entered into an agreement to turn Mirabel into a theme park. The proposed concept of the park is based on the theme of water and outer space.[9][10] As of August 2008, negotiations, market research, and technical assessments are ongoing, and construction has not started.[11] In December 2006, in a move he called "correcting a historical injustice," Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced the return of 4,450 hectares of farmland expropriated to build Mirabel airport. About 125 farmers, who rent their land from the federal government, were permitted to buy it back. Harper said he was pleased to finish the work started by former prime minister, Brian Mulroney, who unlocked a major parcel of expropriated land during his first term in office in 1985. In May 2007, it was reported that the International Center of Advanced Racing had signed a 25 year lease with Aéroports de Montréal to use part of the airport as a race track.[6][12] At the same time fixed base operator, Hélibellule, opened a facility at the site to cater for the private jets that were expected. The company also provides a passenger service from Mirabel to destinations in Canada and the United States.[13][14] They operate three different types of helicopters; Bell 222, Robinson R22 and Aérospatiale Gazelle.[13] In August 2007, AirMédic moved from its base at Montreal/Saint-Hubert Airport to Mirabel. AirMédic is a non-profit humane foundation serving the population of Quebec and its visitors with the service of air ambulances. It offers MEDEVAC flights using a Eurocopter Dauphin.[5][15] In August 2008, the Agence métropolitaine de transport said it was willing to expand its commuter rail service to the airport if passenger traffic were to return. This is quite ironic since the AMT is also working to bring rail service to Trudeau Airport and had never shown interest in serving Mirabel when there was passenger traffic.[citation needed] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradMayFan Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Third SeaBus is looking good! And honestly with Canada Line + SeaBus every 10 minutes I can't see myself ever having to drive to the airport again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckyHermit Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Third SeaBus is looking good! And honestly with Canada Line + SeaBus every 10 minutes I can't see myself ever having to drive to the airport again! Ah, the joys of living in Richmond. For all visiting relatives, they phone us when they get off the plane, and we're there waiting for them by the time they step outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 http://www.translink.ca/en/Get-Involved/fe...-Workshops.aspx Sched for upcoming translink consultation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Common sense Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 http://www.translink.ca/en/Get-Involved/fe...-Workshops.aspx Sched for upcoming translink consultation. I'd hate to be going to the Richmond one. Imagine all the people in defense of the 400 expresses there. that being said, I'm so in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckyHermit Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I'd hate to be going to the Richmond one. Imagine all the people in defense of the 400 expresses there. that being said, I'm so in. x2 Let's roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_1 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) I think it'll only encourage sprawl. Sprawl is encouraged now anyways; building road projects such as the New Port Mann Bridge and Pitt River Bridge won't prevent sprawl. More people are moving east with no other option then to drive to work. Would it hurt to provide a green commute? Edited June 5, 2009 by tom_1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Terminating HSR in Cloverdale, of all places, won't exactly leave a good impression of the region to the visitors. And it'll be something like an hour long Skytrain ride from Cloverdale to DT Van, with all the stops inbetween, for both tourists and Valley commuters alike. Didn't you say they may need to build another runway out onto the sea? I'd rather they expanded YXX instead. Plus, spreading the load among multiple airports instead of pushing either to the limit is better for aviation safety, though it may come at the price of convenience, no? It might not be the best impression, but since there is no straight alighnment into downtown it would be much cheaper and probably faster, not to mention further extending skytrain down the valley. Plus, being so close to the border, shouldn't be hard to have a border post inside the station to clear customs that much more easily. As for YVR, like it or not, they are going to keep on expanding, if only because if they do build it, they do seem to come. That's not to say that abbottsfor airport can't grow too, but I think it would be better to allow them to expand naturally based on sound business plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 It might not be the best impression, but since there is no straight alighnment into downtown it would be much cheaper and probably faster, not to mention further extending skytrain down the valley. Plus, being so close to the border, shouldn't be hard to have a border post inside the station to clear customs that much more easily. The Richmond terminus I proposed should be close enough to the airport to have border personnel shuttle back-and-forth. As for YVR, like it or not, they are going to keep on expanding, if only because if they do build it, they do seem to come. That's not to say that abbottsfor airport can't grow too, but I think it would be better to allow them to expand naturally based on sound business plans. We should draw the line at filling in Georgia Strait to add a runway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 There were so many reasons to expand abbotsford and not YVR and they didn't. I'm sure they'll just pave the ocean in the name of $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now