Buggernut Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Tiny little localities like Oslo? 1.4 million, actually. Considerably smaller than us by about a million still. The population density is the difference. Europe's is much higher than ours. Look at Japan and Korea. They are covered with high speed trains (KTX and shinkansen) because they have the density. That certainly doesn't hold true for Northern European countries like Sweden, Norway and Finland, which do have some yellow on that map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 ^ I heard that there are some safety concerns with the KTX though. Not sure what that has to do with whether or not the density warrants that type of train.... Regardless, I lived in Korea for a few years and rode the KTX all the time. Fast, efficient, cheap--it was great. Not to mention the subway and bus system in Seoul. It makes Vancouver look like a cute little village. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 1.4 million, actually. Considerably smaller than us by about a million still. That certainly doesn't hold true for Northern European countries like Sweden, Norway and Finland, which do have some yellow on that map. 1.4 million is a tiny little locality? Right, and those countries, just like Canada, have their yellow concentrated right by mainland Europe as we would to the US border--where we have our density. There are other factors though, they are politically and socially more integrated--developing this network would be easier if the US and Canada shared more than just business links. Hey, I'm all for the train, I think it would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckyHermit Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Not sure what that has to do with whether or not the density warrants that type of train.... Regardless, I lived in Korea for a few years and rode the KTX all the time. Fast, efficient, cheap--it was great. Not to mention the subway and bus system in Seoul. It makes Vancouver look like a cute little village. Any input on the subway systems in other places in Korea, like Daegu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) ^ I heard that there are some safety concerns with the KTX though. Those silly Koreans, always trying to jump ahead of the Japanese at everything overnight, and skipping a lot of crucial steps in the process...such as ensuring human safety. Edited June 5, 2009 by Buggernut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Those silly Koreans, always trying to jump ahead of the Japanese at everything overnight, and skipping a lot of crucial steps in the process...such as ensuring human safety. ? Did you just pull this from your butt or do you have some source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) ? Did you just pull this from your butt or do you have some source? Just a quip about a culture that seems to have a petty penchant for sticking it to the 'Japs' in every way imaginable. Having ambition, pride and goals of building your country/community into a winner is good, as long as you go about it properly. Omitting important steps and precautions in a rushed attempt to get there isn't. It holds even more true for China, which seems to have no problem letting its own people get poisoned or blown up in mines in the name of 'progress'. Edited June 6, 2009 by Buggernut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozzy Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I don't like public transit...buses are sticky...i heard that someone took a leak on a seat because the driver got mad at them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckyHermit Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Just a quip about a culture that seems to have a petty penchant for sticking it to the 'Japs' in every way imaginable. Having ambition, pride and goals of building your country/community into a winner is good, as long as you go about it properly. Omitting important steps and precautions in a rushed attempt to get there isn't. It holds even more true for China, which seems to have no problem letting its own people get poisoned or blown up in mines in the name of 'progress'. Reminds me of their English program. Japan started hiring English teachers for their JET program, so Korea decided to get going with their own program (called EPIK) to try to one-up them. Although to be fair, they had a lot of work to do in that regard anyways (with or without the JET program influencing them) and improvement is still necessary... Their students' English proficiency rates (according to LPI-like exams) are still among the bottom half in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Common sense Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I don't like public transit...buses are sticky...i heard that someone took a leak on a seat because the driver got mad at them... Please...people take leaks on the bus whether or not they're mad at the bus driver. Sometimes, they take leaks when the bus driver isn't around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) Please...people take leaks on the bus whether or not they're mad at the bus driver. Sometimes, they take leaks when the bus driver isn't around I wish they'd invent a leak detector, that would set off an alarm and have multiple flashing lights with arrows pointing to the offending passenger to embarrass them as much as possible. Edited June 6, 2009 by Buggernut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Reminds me of their English program. Japan started hiring English teachers for their JET program, so Korea decided to get going with their own program (called EPIK) to try to one-up them. Although to be fair, they had a lot of work to do in that regard anyways (with or without the JET program influencing them) and improvement is still necessary... Their students' English proficiency rates (according to LPI-like exams) are still among the bottom half in the world. Helps that the Japanese got a decade head start and millions/billions in aid to reconstruct their economy and 2 cities. Korea was completely flattened by the Japanese and Chinese and then the Korean War... After having visited a few of the war memorial/museums I can't blame the Koreans for being a little pissed off. Their country has just been a stomping ground for the Japanese/Chinese. And some of the 'methods' used by the Japanese...yeah, bad stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckyHermit Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Helps that the Japanese got a decade head start and millions/billions in aid to reconstruct their economy and 2 cities. Korea was completely flattened by the Japanese and Chinese and then the Korean War... After having visited a few of the war memorial/museums I can't blame the Koreans for being a little pissed off. Their country has just been a stomping ground for the Japanese/Chinese. And some of the 'methods' used by the Japanese...yeah, bad stuff. Reminds me of the phrase I kept using during my Asian Studies presentation in my last university semester: "The [Koreans] apparently didn't like to be occupied." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Why? Even tiny little localities like Oslo, Norway, Bern, Switzerland and Huesca, Spain (where?) can afford 200+ km/h rail. And the Obama administration is willing to pick up the rest from the US border, right? The density of the Lower Mainland does not warrant a inter-city regional high speed rail system, and the region is quite small. Normal commuter rail will do....but a high speed rail connecting Vancouver to Seattle and other American cities? Sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) The density of the Lower Mainland does not warrant a inter-city regional high speed rail system, and the region is quite small. Normal commuter rail will do....but a high speed rail connecting Vancouver to Seattle and other American cities? Sure. It's going to be hard to justify spending billions on tracks for a train that just runs to and from Seattle a couple of times a day, right? If much of the same infrastructure is also to be used for Valley residents' daily commute, the costs would be much more justifiable. Edited June 6, 2009 by Buggernut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtzfan Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) look how convenient if we have fare gates and smart cards! Edited June 7, 2009 by kurtzfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Made a few little modifications to my HSR map: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&...792389&z=10 Added a station in Hamilton (East Richmond) and a Skytrain extension connecting to it. Also added a station in South Surrey. If the tracks are in place, why not let the people of S. Surrey and White Rock use it for their commute? Is my idea looking more attractive or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) ^ What? No more comments from nitro or ron on this? In addition to providing a commute option to/from the Valley, an airport connection and facilitating high speed rail to Seattle, it also bridges the gap between Surrey/N. Delta and Richmond. If 'high speed rail' (whatever your definition of it is) is not suitable for this route, what is the maximum feasible speed for it? I say it should strive for 200 km/h and be electrified for quick acceleration. Maybe start at a lower speed until the entire route is grade separated. And the tracks should be compatible with whatever trains they have planned for the Northwest HSR corridor, since they'll be shared with them. Edited June 8, 2009 by Buggernut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePointblank Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 ^ What? No more comments from nitro or ron on this? In addition to providing a commute option to/from the Valley and an airport connection, it also bridges the gap between Surrey/N. Delta and Richmond. If 'high speed rail' (whatever your definition of it is) is not suitable for this route, what is the maximum feasible speed for it? I say it should strive for 200 km/h and be electrified for quick acceleration. Maybe start at a lower speed until the entire route is grade separated. And the tracks should be compatible with whatever trains they have planned for the Northwest HSR corridor, since they'll be shared with them. Signalling would be an issue, as you sharply decrease the line capacity. Also, at high speeds, passing non-high speed freight and passenger trains would cause severe buffering for those trains, and could destabilize the loads. Furthermore, a high speed line that runs 200km/h or more would require special track layout that would require wide, banked turns, which won't work for non-high speed traffic. Another issue would be that such high speed lines should be grade-separated from other lines and crossings for safety reasons. The current Cascades trainset is capable of reaching 200 km/h, but current track and safety requirements limit the train's speed to 127km/h. Upgrades to the track would allow the train to achieve the designed top speed, and this would be the easiest way forward to test the waters to see if there is sufficient demand to build a dedicated high speed line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) Signalling would be an issue, as you sharply decrease the line capacity. Also, at high speeds, passing non-high speed freight and passenger trains would cause severe buffering for those trains, and could destabilize the loads. Furthermore, a high speed line that runs 200km/h or more would require special track layout that would require wide, banked turns, which won't work for non-high speed traffic. Another issue would be that such high speed lines should be grade-separated from other lines and crossings for safety reasons. The current Cascades trainset is capable of reaching 200 km/h, but current track and safety requirements limit the train's speed to 127km/h. Upgrades to the track would allow the train to achieve the designed top speed, and this would be the easiest way forward to test the waters to see if there is sufficient demand to build a dedicated high speed line. There aren't existing tracks in the sections through Richmond, Langley and Abbotsford, nor a bridge over Annacis Island, so they'll have to be built from scratch. Anyways, the idea was inspired in part by the plan to electrify Caltrain in the SF Bay Area. Right now, they run on diesel locomotives, but plans are in place to upgrade it to an electrical system, and the tracks are eventually to be shared with the new California High Speed Rail. I figured we could model something similar to it, with parts of the track shared with the Northwest HSR successor to the Cascades. Edited June 8, 2009 by Buggernut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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