The Official Transit Thread

[nitronuts]

yes. rawr.

[BuckyHermit]

That rendering is inaccurate/unlikely -- they're missing the drug dealers.

[inane]

man you guys, I love how because I don't want an overpass in Richmond I've therefore i) never been there ii) think we should eliminate cars

Even nitro agrees with me on this one you guys, eventually you'll see the light.

Roads are for EVERYONE. cars, trucks, pedestrians, cyclists, mopeds, unicycles, segways, etc...

Cars have BY FAR the majority of that space. We are just taking a little tiny (relatively) slice of that space and putting people as the priority. I know that section of 3 road is busy, so take another route. It's not like there's a shortage of nice wide roads in Richmond as alternatives.

[inane]

Also finally took the new skytrain last night. Certainly feels more like a proper subway than the rest of the network, that was nice. Much quieter although screeching around QE Park was loud. I parked at Bridgeport and went down to the game--the signage for paying at the parkade is horrible at Bridgeport. There are signs everywhere with arrows pointing everywhere saying 'pay station' but there are none to be found. Nowhere does it say you have to leave the parkade and go to where the skytrain station is where there's a bank of pay stations.

Poor design--you line up to pay for parking, walk 5 feet and line up to pay for skytrain. I felt like I was getting dicked somehow....

[inane]

Not sure why they are doing this AFTER the skytrain is built....but there are open houses for planning the Cambie corridor starting tonight.

http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/planning/camb...idor/public.htm

[ronthecivil]

That could happen, except there would be hell to pay with the 3Rd merchants who already got screwed over with 9 years of building the 98 and then the RAV.

I majorly smell lawsuit if this is the case; sadly, it's more likely that the merchant wins (due the the bimbo on cambie suing and winning.

The merchants would loose the lawsuit, the city has iminant domain over thier own roads. They can do whatever they want with them.

Might not help them at the election though.

[ronthecivil]

Why would it be slow? Those trains should be well capable of running on a straight track through an urban area reasonably safely at 90 km/h, provided the track is fenced off and crossings have proper flashing lights, bells and gate arms, with fewer stops at that. (Apparently, Caltrain goes 127 km/h.)

And it wouldn't be competing with, but helping the Expo Line with the load if it ran during rush hours only. During other times, the track can be lent to Amtrak, Via and whatever other passenger lines can make use of it.

It would be over open stretch of country that they would be running at top speed. They should slow down enough to make their stop when they approach the populated areas of Langley, Aldergrove, Abbotsford and Chilliwack.

90km/h trains running under the skytrain?!? Well let's see....

At that speed, the gates and bells would have to be down well in advance of any approaching trains, which would throw quite a wrench into the north south traffic flow, which last I checked wasn't exactly zipping by.

Redidents that previously complained about skytrain noise would now have the ding ding ding to complain about too.

You still haven't confirmed that the train route is intact the entire way.

Your crapload of fences now made pedestrian movements a hell of a lot harder.

Are you sure your not just trolling?

As for your Chilliwack idea it's at least not wacky it just wouldn't end up being worth the money. That would be very expensive track to use as high speed rail, you would have to build it on piles the entire way.

[ronthecivil]

New Westminster Station renovation renderings plus the new mall being built around it:

Ticket Platform Level - Looking East. Retail South of the guideway:

Ticket Platform Level - Looking East. Retail North of the guideway:

Columbia Street elevation: - what's at grade on Columbia???

Train Platform Level - Looking East at train platform level:

Looking East from McInnis Street Overpass:

Compare with the VIA Architecture rendering -

there does seem to be a tall street wall to the left - but not as massive as the new renders:

I just hope that while they are at it they extend the platform. Looks like this station modification looks like it could be profitable. Perhaps it could be a pilot project.

[Buggernut]

90km/h trains running under the skytrain?!? Well let's see....

At that speed, the gates and bells would have to be down well in advance of any approaching trains, which would throw quite a wrench into the north south traffic flow, which last I checked wasn't exactly zipping by.

If they're running 15-30 minutes apart, that shouldn't make too big of a dent. People can adjust their driving habits to it.

Maybe 90 km/h is a bit much, but it should at least match Skytrain's top speed of 80 km/h.

Redidents that previously complained about skytrain noise would now have the ding ding ding to complain about too.

Welcome to the lives of those who already live near train tracks. At least they don't have to live with all the loud banging noises of freight trains.

You still haven't confirmed that the train route is intact the entire way.

Rebuild where broken. I think that is obvious.

[Common sense]

man you guys, I love how because I don't want an overpass in Richmond I've therefore i) never been there ii) think we should eliminate cars

Even nitro agrees with me on this one you guys, eventually you'll see the light.

Roads are for EVERYONE. cars, trucks, pedestrians, cyclists, mopeds, unicycles, segways, etc...

Cars have BY FAR the majority of that space. We are just taking a little tiny (relatively) slice of that space and putting people as the priority. I know that section of 3 road is busy, so take another route. It's not like there's a shortage of nice wide roads in Richmond as alternatives.

I like your logic. So does that mean i can walk in the center lane of Broadway at 4pm and still call myself "traffic?" Actually, better question is, how many people will be coming after me with a sledgehammer, "asking" me to move out of the way.

Face it, there's some things that just can't mix together. Cars and bikes, for one; cars and pedestrians; pedestrians and cyclists, even. The pseudo-bike lane on 3Rd, although it is (slightly) elevated from car traffic, still has the occasional bus driving on it. Another example of poor planning and how cars and other movers like bikes can't mix in such a cramped environment. OTOH, just to the east, we got Garden City and its fairly large shoulder for bikes. THAT works!

Now, we've all seen the chaos that were the result of 3Rd construction. When parts of the road were shut down and traffic diverted, what did that result in? Cars and other forms of transport moving onto other roads like Cooney, Buswell or Minoru, and further east to Garden City. Those roads, particularly the first two, were not designed for arterial traffic, but it was a means for local traffic to move around. Shut down 3Rd, and you ultimately get cars going to where planners don't want them to go.

Also, don't get me started with the notion of getting people to bus down to the city center. This isn't Vancouver, where buses service every city block. This is Richmond, where some buses see frequencies comparable to buses from south-of-the-fraser.

I'm going to wrap this up fast. You suggest taking that section of 3Rd and converting it to a human mall. Problem is, other roads aren't built/ready to handle that extra influx of traffic. Bus frequency isn't enough to support those that don't drive as a result of this change (actually, it isn't enough even as of now.) What happens then?

[cj_coolcat]

Re. New West Skytrain renos.

Haven't those already started? I was at that station a few months ago and the bus loop was shut down because there was already a bunch of construction going on.

[inane]

I like your logic. So does that mean i can walk in the center lane of Broadway at 4pm and still call myself "traffic?" Actually, better question is, how many people will be coming after me with a sledgehammer, "asking" me to move out of the way.

Face it, there's some things that just can't mix together. Cars and bikes, for one; cars and pedestrians; pedestrians and cyclists, even. The pseudo-bike lane on 3Rd, although it is (slightly) elevated from car traffic, still has the occasional bus driving on it. Another example of poor planning and how cars and other movers like bikes can't mix in such a cramped environment. OTOH, just to the east, we got Garden City and its fairly large shoulder for bikes. THAT works!

Now, we've all seen the chaos that were the result of 3Rd construction. When parts of the road were shut down and traffic diverted, what did that result in? Cars and other forms of transport moving onto other roads like Cooney, Buswell or Minoru, and further east to Garden City. Those roads, particularly the first two, were not designed for arterial traffic, but it was a means for local traffic to move around. Shut down 3Rd, and you ultimately get cars going to where planners don't want them to go.

Also, don't get me started with the notion of getting people to bus down to the city center. This isn't Vancouver, where buses service every city block. This is Richmond, where some buses see frequencies comparable to buses from south-of-the-fraser.

I'm going to wrap this up fast. You suggest taking that section of 3Rd and converting it to a human mall. Problem is, other roads aren't built/ready to handle that extra influx of traffic. Bus frequency isn't enough to support those that don't drive as a result of this change (actually, it isn't enough even as of now.) What happens then?

ahhh the old take someone's point and extrapolate it to the extreme and argue against that. you guys are nothing if not consistent.

ahh and another! the one I bolded, another great tactic by you guys. Make shiate up. I never said turn no. 3 road into a mall. why don't you try reading what i write before you rant on.

[ronthecivil]

If they're running 15-30 minutes apart, that shouldn't make too big of a dent. People can adjust their driving habits to it.

Maybe 90 km/h is a bit much, but it should at least match Skytrain's top speed of 80 km/h.

Welcome to the lives of those who already live near train tracks. At least they don't have to live with all the loud banging noises of freight trains.

Rebuild where broken. I think that is obvious.

15 mins apart plus you have to add time in advance for the arms to come down and then again a time after it leaves. They wouldn't be able to adjust their driving habits due to the fact that it would form a barrier the entire length. Even at 80km/h you would need to have quite the lead in time for the gates.

As for saying "welcome to the lives of those who live near tracks" you would get lynched in the public consultation for that remark. They long ago put up with the skytrain as a replacment.

As for rebuild where broken, what do you do when there is now something in the way, like say a skytrain pillar?

Increadibly expensive, a huge disruption to the public, and completely redunant, that's what this idea is.

[nitronuts]

Also finally took the new skytrain last night. Certainly feels more like a proper subway than the rest of the network, that was nice. Much quieter although screeching around QE Park was loud. I parked at Bridgeport and went down to the game--the signage for paying at the parkade is horrible at Bridgeport. There are signs everywhere with arrows pointing everywhere saying 'pay station' but there are none to be found. Nowhere does it say you have to leave the parkade and go to where the skytrain station is where there's a bank of pay stations.

Poor design--you line up to pay for parking, walk 5 feet and line up to pay for skytrain. I felt like I was getting dicked somehow....

I thought the new line felt like an underground monorail rather than a real subway.

Yea, they had to go around volcanic rock at QE Park...had they just gone right through it, done more blasting, it would probably have shaved off 3-mins.

[inane]

I thought the new line felt like an underground monorail rather than a real subway.

Yea, they had to go around volcanic rock at QE Park...had they just gone right through it, done more blasting, it would probably have shaved off 3-mins.

Well it's all relative, it felt more like a proper subway than the rest of the skytrain, but still nothing like a real, 8-car subway, wide platforms, many exits, connections, etc... like Seoul or wherever.

Edited September 22, 2009 by inane

[ronthecivil]

I like your logic. So does that mean i can walk in the center lane of Broadway at 4pm and still call myself "traffic?" Actually, better question is, how many people will be coming after me with a sledgehammer, "asking" me to move out of the way.

Face it, there's some things that just can't mix together. Cars and bikes, for one; cars and pedestrians; pedestrians and cyclists, even. The pseudo-bike lane on 3Rd, although it is (slightly) elevated from car traffic, still has the occasional bus driving on it. Another example of poor planning and how cars and other movers like bikes can't mix in such a cramped environment. OTOH, just to the east, we got Garden City and its fairly large shoulder for bikes. THAT works!

Now, we've all seen the chaos that were the result of 3Rd construction. When parts of the road were shut down and traffic diverted, what did that result in? Cars and other forms of transport moving onto other roads like Cooney, Buswell or Minoru, and further east to Garden City. Those roads, particularly the first two, were not designed for arterial traffic, but it was a means for local traffic to move around. Shut down 3Rd, and you ultimately get cars going to where planners don't want them to go.

Also, don't get me started with the notion of getting people to bus down to the city center. This isn't Vancouver, where buses service every city block. This is Richmond, where some buses see frequencies comparable to buses from south-of-the-fraser.

I'm going to wrap this up fast. You suggest taking that section of 3Rd and converting it to a human mall. Problem is, other roads aren't built/ready to handle that extra influx of traffic. Bus frequency isn't enough to support those that don't drive as a result of this change (actually, it isn't enough even as of now.) What happens then?

That can be fixed. Inane has a point, is was others that said they should turn No 3 into a ped mall. The thing is though not his plan it's still not a bad one. You should have cars seperated from the pedestrian enviroment.

[Buggernut]

As for rebuild where broken, what do you do when there is now something in the way, like say a skytrain pillar?

Replace with an arch, maybe? Hopefully, it won't have to be done in too many places.

Increadibly expensive, a huge disruption to the public, and completely redunant, that's what this idea is.

The question again becomes how does its cost compare with that of a Skytrain expansion? Maybe we're still long ways off, but perhaps it's a question we'll have to revisit as the Valley's population grows and rivals Vancouver's.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Buggernut

[Common sense]

ahhh the old take someone's point and extrapolate it to the extreme and argue against that. you guys are nothing if not consistent.

ahh and another! the one I bolded, another great tactic by you guys. Make shiate up. I never said turn no. 3 road into a mall. why don't you try reading what i write before you rant on.

My point is my point. It may be inconsistent with nitro's, OTH's, or ronthecivil's, but it's consistent with my beliefs of urban planning, my experiences of what Brighouse Stn is like right now, and my experiences of what 3Rd is like.

Provide me with instances where I have taken a point and extrapolated it to the extreme, as I can see nothing of the sort.

With regards to paragraph 2:

Cars have BY FAR the majority of that space. We are just taking a little tiny (relatively) slice of that space and putting people as the priority. I know that section of 3 road is busy, so take another route. It's not like there's a shortage of nice wide roads in Richmond as alternatives.

Forgive me if I interpreted that you wanted to take a part of 3Rd and make it a pedestrian mall, which is pretty damn much along the lines of putting people as the priority.

[ronthecivil]

Replace with an arch, maybe? Hopefully, it won't have to be done in too many places.

The question again becomes how does its cost compare with that of a Skytrain expansion? Maybe we're still long ways off, but perhaps it's a question we'll have to revisit as the Valley's population grows and rivals Vancouver's.

Uh, if there is a skytrain pillar in the way you would have to realign huge sections of one or the other to make it work. Railroads have much, much flatter curve standards then say a road. You can't just jog your way around, it's operation plow right though in the railway game.

As for how much it cost compared to simply expanding the stations, if you do it like they are doing in New West and tie it in with developement (which is actually completely consistant with even the fruitiest of urban planning theory) it could turn out to be profitable. Regardless of the costs of expanding skytrain, you would never ever do the project your describling because the ridership analysis will result in it having a terrible benefit cost ratio (aka a white elephant). AKA doing just about anything would be a better idea.

[Common sense]

That can be fixed. Inane has a point, is was others that said they should turn No 3 into a ped mall. The thing is though not his plan it's still not a bad one. You should have cars seperated from the pedestrian enviroment.

Which brings us back the original question posted by OTH:

Where the hell is that barrier separating people from cars, for as I see it, it doesn't exist. Well, actually, people are breaking down this paper-thin barrier by crossing the current crosswalk on a green light.