The Official Transit Thread

[nitronuts]

X$/device x Y buses = How much money? Sensing equipment rugged enough to withstand being on and retrofited into an existng bus doesn't strike me as something with a cheap unit price. Not to mention the need to carry around yet another THICK (your kidding right?) card?

What's the benefit of this?

I could go on and on with this, but simply said you really have no idea what you're talking about...

[ronthecivil]

It also acts as a psychological barrier, creating a perception of safety in the system.

Staff won't be able to check everyone's tickets, especially for things like paying one less zone.

Countless cities with world-class metro systems use fare gates...surely, they can't be in the wrong.

Countless world class cities around the world have moved towards a more suburban city layout and a move away from the city core. Surely, they can't all be in the wrong can they?

OF COURSE THEY CAN BE IN THE WRONG. Regardless, the world isn't a cookie cutter anyways.

EVERY STUDY DONE SHOWS THAT THE BARRIERS COST MORE THAN YOU WOULD EVER HOPE TO MAKE BACK. Money loosing venture.

So I guess what your suggest we pay (significantly) for is some sort of physcological impression. As if a gate is going to stop anyone from getting on. If you want to increase safety, increase the police presence, have good lighting (and better yet urban design) around the stations, and so on, and so forth. This is a giant red herring being disguised as "doing something" that will have no impact on safety and a negative impact on operating budgets, which last I check, were in serious perile and in no need of additional strain.

[nitronuts]

I see.

Will bus ticket machines start spitting out smart cards instead of transfers? Since I get to the SkyTrain station, I would need a smart card to get on. Will the U-Pass become a smart card then?

I think when I went to Canton, you used these plastic coins to get on the subway and the turnstiles would take the coin back once you have used it up or something.

I am really confused how this thing will actually work.

Cards spitting out? No! You wave the card over a sensor, and you're done. You keep your smart card as you are able to refill it with money either online or at a SkyTrain ticket machine. The smart card is like a transit debit card.

[ronthecivil]

I could go on and on with this, but simply said you really have no idea what you're talking about...

So retrofitting all the buses for smart cards would be cheap?

What are the benefits of a smart card, other than it's awesome stealability?

[Opmac]

X$/device x Y buses = How much money? Sensing equipment rugged enough to withstand being on and retrofited into an existng bus doesn't strike me as something with a cheap unit price. Not to mention the need to carry around yet another THICK (your kidding right?) card?

What's the benefit of this?

The card is just the size of a debit/credit card. Many people who take transit have a monthly card or U-Pass anyways, so they would be carrying a card of some sort already anyways.

I know when I went to Canton, you take the subway, they give you a plastic coin. You use that coin to get onto the system and when you exit, you have to go through another set of turnstiles and the plastic coin gets eaten up by the machine. (couldn't think of a better way to explain this)

Probably something similar here.

[nitronuts]

Countless world class cities around the world have moved towards a more suburban city layout and a move away from the city core. Surely, they can't all be in the wrong can they?

OF COURSE THEY CAN BE IN THE WRONG. Regardless, the world isn't a cookie cutter anyways.

EVERY STUDY DONE SHOWS THAT THE BARRIERS COST MORE THAN YOU WOULD EVER HOPE TO MAKE BACK. Money loosing venture.

So I guess what your suggest we pay (significantly) for is some sort of physcological impression. As if a gate is going to stop anyone from getting on. If you want to increase safety, increase the police presence, have good lighting (and better yet urban design) around the stations, and so on, and so forth. This is a giant red herring being disguised as "doing something" that will have no impact on safety and a negative impact on operating budgets, which last I check, were in serious perile and in no need of additional strain.

[ronthecivil]

Instead of being a jerk why don't you explain how this investment will end up saving translink money or make transit easier to use with this system? Where all those previous cost studies all wrong?

[Opmac]

Cards spitting out? No! You wave the card over a sensor, and you're done. You keep your smart card as you are able to refill it with money either online or at a SkyTrain ticket machine. The smart card is like a transit debit card.

I am just confused about how the transition from bus to SkyTrain would work.

You paid a coin fare so you get a paper transfer card from the bus, you get to the SkyTrain station. Now what?

Exchange the transfer for a smart card, or will the turnstiles take transfers as well.

[ronthecivil]

Fare cards are common place throughout the world. Fare gates are common place throughout the world. They work. Distance based travel is common place, not these stupid zones.

Conforming with everyone else is the benefit?

The zones ARE stupid, but at least they aren't complex.

[inane]

Conforming with everyone else is the benefit?

The zones ARE stupid, but at least they aren't complex.

Distance based travel is not complex...? You go this far, you pay this much. Pretty simple stuff.

Conforming is not the benefit, but if it were a money losing venture, why would everyone else do it?

[ahzdeen]

I am just confused about how the transition from bus to SkyTrain would work.

You paid a coin fare so you get a paper transfer card from the bus, you get to the SkyTrain station. Now what?

Exchange the transfer for a smart card, or will the turnstiles take transfers as well.

If it's like korea, there will be no transfers. You'll pay for the bus and skytrain separately. But because they're distance based fares, it would probably end up costing about the same. That would mean individual bus or skytrain trips would be cheaper (in theory).

[ronthecivil]

Distance based travel is not complex...? You go this far, you pay this much. Pretty simple stuff.

Conforming is not the benefit, but if it were a money losing venture, why would everyone else do it?

Almost all transit systems are money loosing ventures. As far as I know we stack up pretty well with regards to subsidy per person compared to the rest of the world. Get rid of some of the money sucking bus routes and were doing even better. Certainly the skytrain system which is almost profitable is not in need of copying others. They should be copying us.

[inane]

If it's like korea, there will be no transfers. You'll pay for the bus and skytrain separately. But because they're distance based fares, it would probably end up costing about the same. That would mean individual bus or skytrain trips would be cheaper (in theory).

In Korea though if you rode the subway and used your card, then rode the bus within an hour (i think? maybe an hour and a half) your bus fare is at a discounted rate.

[Opmac]

If it's like korea, there will be no transfers. You'll pay for the bus and skytrain separately. But because they're distance based fares, it would probably end up costing about the same. That would mean individual bus or skytrain trips would be cheaper (in theory).

I am not liking this smart card thing then.

Then again, I have the U-Pass and when I graduate, I'd be driving anyways.

[ahzdeen]

In Korea though if you rode the subway and used your card, then rode the bus within an hour (i think? maybe an hour and a half) your bus fare is at a discounted rate.

Ya, same with bus to bus. You just have to scan out on your way out. There is a "transfer rate" but it's not much. The real savings is the fact that if you have a card, the transit system is 10% cheaper than if you buy all cash fares.

[ronthecivil]

Ya, same with bus to bus. You just have to scan out on your way out. There is a "transfer rate" but it's not much. The real savings is the fact that if you have a card, the transit system is 10% cheaper than if you buy all cash fares.

I guess if your doing distance based travel on the bus you have to sign in AND out. That sounds slower than what happens now. What it does sound like is a suductive way to quitely pull as much money out of the ridership as possible. Swipe the card and the money disappears. I suppose that's a benefit, unless of course you think that transit should cost as little as possible. I guess that's our fate though when we try to copy for profit private transit systems based in asia. All we need now are door pushers and we can use the skytrain to subsidise bus service in the valley.

[Opmac]

I guess if your doing distance based travel on the bus you have to sign in AND out. That sounds slower than what happens now. What it does sound like is a suductive way to quitely pull as much money out of the ridership as possible. Swipe the card and the money disappears. I suppose that's a benefit, unless of course you think that transit should cost as little as possible. I guess that's our fate though when we try to copy for profit private transit systems based in asia. All we need now are door pushers and we can use the skytrain to subsidise bus service in the valley.

Nobody's going to sign in and out of a bus. Not going to walk all the way to the front of the bus to do it. Not gonna do it if you put it right at the back door. Not reaching in my pocket to get my smart card.

[ronthecivil]

Nobody's going to sign in and out of a bus. Not going to walk all the way to the front of the bus to do it. Not gonna do it if you put it right at the back door. Not reaching in my pocket to get my smart card.

Ya, I wonder what the bus riders union will think about this smart card shenanigan's. Should make for some fun.

[ahzdeen]

I guess if your doing distance based travel on the bus you have to sign in AND out. That sounds slower than what happens now. What it does sound like is a suductive way to quitely pull as much money out of the ridership as possible. Swipe the card and the money disappears. I suppose that's a benefit, unless of course you think that transit should cost as little as possible. I guess that's our fate though when we try to copy for profit private transit systems based in asia. All we need now are door pushers and we can use the skytrain to subsidise bus service in the valley.

I don't know exactly how it would work here, but in korea there are different buses for different distances and all buses of a type cost the same. Not perfect distance pricing, but pretty close. So it would be like the green buses travel within neighborhoods, like a green bus would stay within "x" km of metrotown. Orange buses would travel between neighborhoods, like an orange bus would travel between metro and brentwood. The red buses would travel farther distances. Like from Metro to Coquitlam Centre. All buses of the same colour would cost the same, but red>orange>green (obviously).

[ahzdeen]

Nobody's going to sign in and out of a bus. Not going to walk all the way to the front of the bus to do it. Not gonna do it if you put it right at the back door. Not reaching in my pocket to get my smart card.

Don't have to take it out. Ever used paypass?