Tearloch7 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 The second oldest profession MUST be "pimping", closely followed by "lawyering" .. everybody's gotta live off'a the money-maker .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 ^ Get used to disappointment. Anyhow, without further delay, let's talk about your topic. Prostitution and human trafficking are definitely connected. And it is the laws governing prostitution, or rather, the laws involving solicitation that make underground economies function exceptionally well. People make money because things are ILLEGAL. And when there's the illegal factor involved, there will be exploitation. Bootlegging alcohol, for example, during the Prohibition period, is an example of an underground economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Unfortunately while legalising booze kills off (most of) the illegal portions of it (unless you want beer delivered at 2 in the morning) the problem with prostitution is that it's not all about sex it's about some sort of weird power thing. So even if it's legal there's going to be people that won't fit in the legal framework and a large market to consume it. This isn't something benign. If you legalise it there will be increased demand for the "services" which will compell more people into the trade. So no real easy answer. Legalising will not eliminate the illegal trade. There's always some that will be "underground". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I think it would minimize it though. Is the guys who like young girls going to risk jail time, pay more money and risk his safety for a girl who's 16 when he can get a legal, less expensive, safer 18 year old elsewhere? Possibly. But I'd wager the numbers would go down and we could still sick the "Federales" on him (rightly so). It's the same false argument against legalizing Marijuana. "Gangs will just concentrate their efforts on other drugs" or "there will still be illegal grow ops" etc. Sure, there will always be crime and underground markets for ANYTHING. That doesn't mean we shouldn't take steps at REDUCING the harm and influence of those underground markets. Not to mention that the police can than concentrate on those small problematic markets rather than wasting time on all the stuff that should be legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Well you can see the downside is that if there's big money to be had and it's completely legit that more 18 year olds are going to give it a spin. Needless to say there's a lot of social costs in these kinds of things involving people on both sides of the equation. However, it's a given that it's going to happen so while I agree it should be legal it should be extremely discouraged. And rather than simply thinking hookers are happy and living some sort of high life recognize that the majority are depressed, addicted, and only in it because it's the only thing they have going for them. If people want to help how about instead of making life easy on the pimps and criminal gangs that already control the industry how about doing some things to help them address their problems? If we want a paradigm change instead of pursuing the hookers go after the clients. Joe Businessman might think twice about stopping for a 20 dollar ** on his way downtown if he knew he risked serious sanctions for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I don't think 18 year olds will be lining up to become prostitutes. Same thing with Portugal's laws decriminalizing drugs to combat their major usage issues (especially among youth) and offering treatment instead. They actually saw a REDUCTION in usage, not an increase. Women who were already going to be attracted to prostitution and/or porn for various reasons are the one's you'll see doing it IMO. I do agree that more help/counseling/treatment etc is the route to go though. I do disagree however that we should be going after the "Johns". If two consensual adults want to pay/be paid for sex, that's their business. We should be going after the criminals who pimp, enslave, beat, push in to drug addiction, traffic, prey on youth and profit on all those things however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetcoaster Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I don't think 18 year olds will be lining up to become prostitutes. Same thing with Portugal's laws decriminalizing drugs to combat their major usage issues (especially among youth) and offering treatment instead. They actually saw a REDUCTION in usage, not an increase. Women who were already going to be attracted to prostitution and/or porn for various reasons are the one's you'll see doing it IMO. I do agree that more help/counseling/treatment etc is the route to go though. I do disagree however that we should be going after the "Johns". If two consensual adults want to pay/be paid for sex, that's their business. We should be going after the criminals who pimp, enslave, beat, push in to drug addiction, traffic, prey on youth and profit on all those things however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetcoaster Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 That would be an acceptable path. My "going after the Johns instead" plan is what to do should it be illegal. Shame the perp, not the victim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 And that is precisely what the sections of the Criminal Code that are being challenged in this lawsuit are directed towards as the government has continually maintained and which forms the basis for the appeal. I loathe and despise pimps and nothing gave me more satisfaction back in the day than arresting and detaining such scum... and those living off child prostitutes are the worst of the worst. In one arrest a member of the VPD vice squad totally lost when we raided an apartment in the West End with a number of child prostitutes on premises - the pimp sneered at him that there was nothing we could do to touch him and the VPD member dropped him with a Mag light strike. It really hit home to him as he has two daughters of the ages being pimped out. He ended up being suspended and the pimp who was from Seattle was deported rather than face charges under the Criminal Code. Organized crime is involved in human trafficking of women mainly from Asia. Central America and eastern Europe and forcing them to work in escort services and massage parlours that they operate as purportedly legitimate business fronts. One of the problems in prosecuting such people and building a case is that Canada Immigration prefers to simply deport the woman and poof there goes the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 The problem is that prostitution per se is not illegal for the prostitute or the "John" and unless the John is patronizing a child prostitute, what would you base a prosecution upon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetcoaster Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Well if we don't want it to be legal Australia or Netherlands style (or some modified version) we should make it illegal and form laws that make it illegal to purchase sexual services. How that is done is up to the wizards of Ottawa - they have no lack of lawyers around to help them out with that. If it's illegal to buy a plant it shouldn't be to hard to figure out how to write a law to make it illegal to buy a **. Not that it's the route I prefer as noted in a few posts ahead but even the out right making it illegal would still be an improvement on our current system that does nothing to stop it but does plenty to keep it in the hands of criminals. But either way they should **** or get off the pot and make up their damn mind which model we are going to use instead of weaseling out and using the latest supreme court challenge against our current system of passive aggressive half measures. If the debate is hard to have with strong feelings on either side so be it. Let's have the freaking debate then and settle it one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Prostitution is not legal in all Australian jurisdictions since criminal law is generally a state/territory matter in Australia (unlike Canada). So laws on prostitution differs depending upon the Australian jurisidiction, much like the United States where states exercise the criminal law power over prostitution simpliciter. It would be quite easy to criminalize prostitution but successive Canadian governments have chosen for decades to not embark on such a path. Legalizing brothels brings in a whole other set of issues - who regulates them? Since this would fall under the jurisdiction of the provinces and by extension, municipal authorities, this creates a whole of the set of problems since the feds do not have such regulatory powers once certain prostitution activities (focused on exploitation and pimping) are removed from the realm of criminal law. And the provinces and municipalities have been clear for decades that they want nothing to do with regulating prostitution in any way shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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