Khadr Sentenced To 40 Years By Military Tribunal

[Sharpshooter]

I am currently a Section Commander of a rifle section in an Infantry Regiment. Good enuf for ya?

It is not my responsibility to find relevant refereces for you. Your refs are either irrelevant, or you misquote them. Again, not my fault.

Khadr is a Canadian, was not a Cdn soldier (a legit military force), was not protected under the 4th GC as a non-Gov soldier as he did not display arms openly or abide by the rules of war, he should not have been tortured (if he was, which is debatable), should not have been charged with murder (but there's not much we can do about that as he wasn't charged in Canada), and he should have been either killed in battle or charged under the law of the land in which he committed his 'crime' (Afghanistan). As well, although he was a beligerant, he was NOT what the US calls a 'lawful combatant' (there is no legal definition for what he is, only what he is not).

I have shown you quotes from the relevant clauses of the GC, which CLEARLY show that, despite your desire to the contrary, he put himself in no-man's land by taking up arms as part of a non-recognized force and wage war in contravention of the GC. The GC doesn't protect EVERYONE, it only protects certain people. IF you don't like it, rant against the GC, don't kill the messenger.

If you have a ref to the GC that actually APPLIES to him, I'd love to see it (again, he was 15, not UNDER 15).

[Wetcoaster]

You mentioned some sort of haebus corpus thing as though a non lawyer would know about it.

And of course when I say he's a young offenders act away from being treasonous, what I mean is that the only thing that's saving him from a treason charge is his age. If there's a different act now that deals with that then my name might be out of date but the concept that he would be guilty of treason were it not for his age is still true.

And ok, he's a child soldier and what not. So I go back so what? What are they going to do about it? Soon he will be free in Toronto. Or not. You sound like there's some profiteering for a white knight lawyer to come to his aid. I was asking what that was all about.

[Wetcoaster]

That is if the rest of the world recognises it. Go commit a crime in Saudi that's legal here (like being gay) and see how much that worldwide charter recognition helps you.

Ditto Gitmo apparently!

[old_time_hockey]

You can join at 16 or 17 (can't recall), but you cannot serve overseas under 18. I suspect this is due to the whole 'child soldier' thing we've been flogging for the better part of a day.

Truth be told, I'm a little tired of it...but I AM anxiously awaiting wet's reply...

[Wetcoaster]

Again, you're off base.

The SCC is the supreme authority in Canada (and I like it that way). But the SCC, in all it's omnipotence, has no authority on International bodies or the US.

[Wetcoaster]

Other than set him free how the heck is that done? I knew the lawyers making money would come out eventually.

[Sharpshooter]

Omar Khadr as Child Soldier

Omar Khadr was a minor when he allegedly committed the acts that form the basis of the charges against him. Both US and international law require governments to provide children (persons under the age of 18) with special safeguards and care, including legal protections appropriate to their age. While children should be held accountable for their crimes, international law requires that they be treated in a manner that takes into account their particular vulnerability and relative culpability as children, and focuses primarily on rehabilitation andreintegration.

A body of international treaty law and standards establish fundamental norms when dealing with alleged juvenile offenders. The main sources are the following:

International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR),

Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC),

UN Rules for the Protection of Juveniles Deprived of their Liberty (UN Rules for the Protection of Juveniles),

UN Guidelines for the Prevention of Juvenile Delinquency (The Riyadh Guidelines)

UN Standard Minimum Rules for the Administration of Juvenile Justice (Beijing Rules)

Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners (Standard Minimum Rules)

Body of Principles for the Protection of All Persons under Any Form of Detention or Imprisonment (Body of Principles).

The United States has consistently failed to uphold these internationally accepted standards in

the case of Omar Khadr. Specifically:

1) Length of detention/prompt determination of case: International standards provide that the

arrest and detention of a child must be used only as a measure of last resort and for the shortest

appropriate period of time, and that the case be handled as "speedily as possible." (ICCPR 10.

2(, CRC art. 37(, 40(2)((iii); UN Rules 2.)

Khadr was detained at Guantanamo for more than three years before he was charged in January

2006 under the first set of military commissions set up by President George W. Bush. His case

was dismissed when the Supreme Court declared those commissions unlawful in the case of

Hamdan v Rumsfeld in June 2006.

2) Legal Assistance: Every child deprived of his or her liberty is entitled to prompt access to

legal and other appropriate assistance. (CRC art. 37(d), 40(2)((ii)) Omar Khadr was not provided access to legal counsel until November 2004, more than two years after he was first transferred to Guantanamo.

3) Separation from adults: International law provides that every child deprived of his or her liberty shall be separated from adults, with the exception of unusual cases in which it is not in the child's best interest to maintain such separation. (ICCPR 10, 2, CRC art. 37©)

Khadr has been detained with the general detainee population at Guantanamo since he was 16.

In 2003, the US government took steps to segregate other child detainees (three children

estimated to be between the ages of 13 and 15) from the adult population in a separate facility,

but refused to take such action in the case of Khadr, despite his status as a minor.

4) Contact with family: Detained children have the right to maintain contact with their family through correspondence and visits. (CRC art. 37©).

In five years of detention, Khadr has been allowed to speak to his family by telephone only once.

His family has never been allowed to visit him.

5) Education, recreation: Children deprived of their liberty have the right to special care and assistance, including the right to education and recreation.(Beijing Rules 13.5, UN Rules for the Protection of Juveniles 12, 18(©, 38, 47.)

Although US authorities provided other children held at Guantanamo with access to specialized

tutors, a designated social worker, and recreational opportunities, these options were not made

available to Khadr.

6) Specialized juvenile justice systems and rehabilitation: Child offenders should have access to specialized juvenile justice systems, with specially-trained judges, prosecutors and attorneys. A cornerstone of international juvenile justice standards is also a focus on rehabilitation and social reintegration. (ICCPR 14 (4), CRC art.40(1), Beijing Rules 2.3.)

Khadr has never had the opportunity to request that his case be transferred to a specialized

juvenile justice system or the consideration of a non-judicial disposition. He has not been

afforded access to specially-trained judges or prosecutors with expertise in juvenile justice

standards or the particular needs and rights of alleged juvenile offenders. No consideration has

been given to his rehabilitation or eventual reintegration into society.

No international criminal tribunal established under the laws of war, from Nuremberg forward, has prosecuted a former child soldier for violating the laws of war. There is an overriding presumption in international law that any exception be expressly authorized. The Special Court for Sierra Leone ("SCSL") is one such exceptional case and its jurisdiction was limited to promoting the child's "rehabilitation, reintegration into and assumption of a constructive role in society." Even with these qualifications, the SCSL has made it its policy not to prosecute any former child soldiers.

In 2000, the United States signed the Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the Involvement of Children in Armed Conflict and ratified it in December 2002. Article 6(3) of the Optional Protocol obliged States Parties to take all feasible measures to ensure that persons within their jurisdiction recruited or used in hostilities contrary to the present protocol are demobilized or otherwise released from service. States Parties shall, when necessary, accord to such persons all appropriate assistance for their physical and psychological recovery and their social reintegration.

The rehabilitation of former child soldiers generally entails reunification with the child's family, counseling, educational and vocational training, and other necessary assistance to aid their reintegration into society. The "Paris Principles," international guidelines regarding children associated with armed forces or groups state that "at all stages," the objective of programming for children who have been involved with armed forces should be to enable children "to play an active role as a civilian member of society, integrated into the community and, where possible, reconciled with her/his family."

The Principles further state that regardless of whether children who have participated in armed forces or armed groups escape, are abandoned, or are captured by opposing forces, "all appropriate measures to promote physical and psychological recovery and social reintegration must be taken."

In late 2003, the United States released three children (ages 13-15) detained at Guantanamo to UNICEF to enable them to receive rehabilitation and reintegration assistance in Afghanistan. However, the United States government has not made any such rehabilitation assistance available to Omar Khadr, nor acknowledged his possible status as a child used in armed conflict.

http://www.law.utoro...hildSoldier.pdf

[Wetcoaster]

Someone should forward this info to the illegal millitary tribunal post haste so they know that a transfer up here will result in his imminent release.

[JAH]

Sure you are...and I'm the King of Hearts.

Also, he did display arms because he was said to have tossed a grenade, and he as the one identified doing it by a credible menber of an opposing force....btw...do snipers display arms openly? Do, predator drones displays arms openly?

He was put into the ether by, legal maneouverings of a corrupt regime. That maneouver still isn't recognised by the int'l community.

And again,

the 1989 UN Convention on the Rights of the Child

(CRC), again using 15 as the minimum age. In fact, this

law mirrors the rules of IHL that are applicable in

international armed conflict.

15...not 16 or 14....and again, that's a moot point because 18 could be applied to him, by any rational and legal court outside of the U.S. Military who interpret the GC and have done so in the past, in African based conflicts, and....who are not the arbitators of what is and isn't legal for the world.

They plain made it up and ran with it...and are now offering plea deals in order to run away from it.

[Sharpshooter]

I'm done with you. I can take your lack of comprehension of things military (possessing arms is not openly displaying them...otherwise, why make the 'openly displaying arms' distinction?). But you have now personally insulted and attacked me for the....fourth time in a row? I will not tolerate you calling into question my professional experience. It is well documented, but if you require independant verification, talk to Old Time Hockey or better yet, this forum's mod - Bertuzzi Babe. They both are aware of my experience.

I'm done in this discussion.

[inane]

It doesn't matter how many times you point him to the fact that he was a child soldier. It doesn't fit what he believes so he ignores it. He's a black and white military guy. Omar's a murdering terrorist. There is no grey.

[Wetcoaster]

You still haven't shown the motive for pleading guilty.

I think we all can agree that it was EXCEPTIONALY unlikely he would not have been convicted had he stayed with the not guilty plea. So he circumvented the process and plead guilty.

He's in the same boat.

[ronthecivil]

In Canada it would get you refugee status.

[Sharpshooter]

If you made it there alive sure.

Oh, and I know you like talking down to people, but that's a pretty impressive elementary school you went to if you were learning the latin terms for court procedures.

[Wetcoaster]

Can you provide a link to this? I tried yours but didn't find this. I want to know when this was ratified, by whom, the signatories, and whether or not Khadr was considered to be a part of an 'armed group' (and the definition of that). If I aam wrong on this point, I will freely admit it.

Oh, and seriously...Dallaire? Let's not sully the thread further with that coward.

[Wetcoaster]

Uh...I also learned about Habeus Corpus, The Emancipation Proclamation among other famous constructs, in elementary school too. I'm sure you did as well.

[Wetcoaster]

I'm done with you. I can take your lack of comprehension of things military (possessing arms is not openly displaying them...otherwise, why make the 'openly displaying arms' distinction?). But you have now personally insulted and attacked me for the....fourth time in a row? I will not tolerate you calling into question my professional experience. It is well documented, but if you require independant verification, talk to Old Time Hockey or better yet, this forum's mod - Bertuzzi Babe. They both are aware of my experience.

I'm done in this discussion.

[Sharpshooter]

Of course he did - but if one wishes to play silly bugger rather than debate the merits this is the strategy to employ.

[ronthecivil]

The court also declared it would be "appropriate and reasonable" for the Canadian government to bring Khadr home, though it stopped short of ordering the government to do exactly that.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper declined the court's

advice. "So we get these important legal victories, but so far they don't mean much in practical terms," says Whitling.

[ronthecivil]

Uh...I also learned about Habeus Corpus, The Emancipation Proclamation among other famous constructs, in elementary school too. I'm sure you did as well.