Israel takes out top Hamas commander after missiles launched from Gaza

[لني]

Mohd Mursy has just given himself widespread power by neutering the judiciary.

No protests are kicking up of this.

Could make things interesting.

[Tearloch7]

Mohd Mursy has just given himself widespread power by neutering the judiciary.

No protests are kicking up of this.

Could make things interesting.

[لني]

The new Mubarak? .. the West and Israel will be fine with this as long as he is "their" dictator, and keeps the peace treaty in place .. Americans will probably raise aid if he will be their lap-dog .. **woof**

[Mainly Mattias]

those who have adopted pro-palestinian views seem to assume that the argument is anti-palestinian.

it is anti-hamas and anti-terrorism. apples and oranges, people.

too many little groups with different perspectives, morals and goals to lump them into 2 groups: palestinian and israeli.

[ThaBestPlaceOnEarth]

Any guesses or speculation as to who stands to make the greatest gain from this "incident"? .. there is some very delicate "diplomacy" being played out here .. we live in historic times .. often it is so easy to get wrapped up in the minutiae, and miss the broad strokes history uses when true change takes place ..

When combined with climate changes, this earth and its societies are undergoing very strenuous tests of of collective "will" .. it is happening sooner than I, for one, thought ..

[Coda]

Of course it is totally the Palestinians fault for their current plight, despite the benevolence of the all-giving Israeli government .. get yer head out of yer arse! .. it's clouding yer vision ..

[لني]

Morsi and his EMB government make a short-term gain, by using their diplomatic access to HAMAS they give themselves greater legitimacy both regionally and with the US. However it's at at the expense of the major long-term disadvantage of tying themselves much more closely to HAMAS. That could have big repercussions down the road if HAMAS turns back to a more radical stance, or sides with Iran in the event hostilities break out, or otherwise makes Egypt responsible for some heinous action of theirs.

Israel itself doesn't really gain except by demonstrating the effectiveness of Iron Dome. Likud however stands to gain big-time if this leads to electoral victory, which most expect it will because they took almost no damage and dished out a ton of it on Gaza. It also eases the bad feelings between Netanyahu and the Americans after he intervened in their election.

HAMAS benefits short-term, because the bombardment stopped. They benefit medium-term because the cease-fire shows they have leverage vis-a-vis Israel, not just militarily but diplomatically, this deal really improves their standing with everyone. They benefit long-term from closer relations with Iran and especially Egypt, which will likely relax border security, weakening the Gaza blockade. However they lose out big-time though in the actual conflict, from loss of infrastructure and the death of an important figure in al-Jabari.

Iran benefits a little bit, showing they have a proxy down south in Gaza as well as up north in Lebanon that can hit Israel relatively hard. That puts the screws on and makes Israel nervous with respect to the possibility of hostilities breaking out. America benefits by coming in with their involvement at exactly the right time. Nobody is really upset at the way America intervened, which is rare. FATAH, Abbas, and the West Bank palestinians are the ones who really lose out of all of this, as they were irrelevent, completely sidelined. This whole thing really reinforces the division between the West Bank and Gaza, they have some Taylor Swift going on there, or some NHL/NHLPA if you prefer.

[Special Ed]

Gaza has only to stop attacking Israel for the violence to cease. Evidence #1: The West Bank. Evidence #2: Yesterday's ceasefire.

The challenge stands: please show me any "hot" conflict now or any time in history where two countries have been exchanging rocket and artillery fire and one country does the following:

1. Processes and sends huge amounts of food and other humanitarian aid to the point that the opposing population has an obesity problem.

2. Provides free medical aid and medical personnel.

3. Phones enemy commanders so their families can evacuate before their houses are destroyed.

4. Calls off airstrikes when civilians are seen nearby.

5. Drops leaflets telling civilians which areas to evacuate in advance of a ground invasion.

You can not provide an example of another country that has done this because one doesn't exist. And yet par for the course: the Israelis are compared to Nazis, as we've seen many times throughout this thread.

In the other corner we have Hamas, government of Gaza:

1. Directly supports and advocates for the targeting of civilians, by rockets, suicide bombers, and other means.

2. Openly calls for the total annihilation of Israel.

3. Indoctrinates Palestinian children from infancy to hate Jews and become Martyrs in the act of killing Jews and destroying Israel.

4. Denies the holocaust happened.

5. Rewrites history in children's textbooks.

5. Steals humanitarian aid destined for its people.

6. Operates weaponry from schools and mosques

7. Uses civilians as human shields.

8. etc., etc., etc.

In my opinion, things will only get worse until Hamas has been totally eradicated.

Basically, the Anti-Israeli stance seems to consist of the following:

1. The Jews of Israel stole Arab land-they are therefore in the wrong! (ignoring that the founding of Israel was not at all that simple or one sided)

2. Any force used by Israel on any Palestinians for any reason is tyranny: any good things done for the Palestinians are ignored.

3. Anything done by any Palestinians is some form of freedom fighting initially provoked by the Israelis.

[Coda]

Great except let's just switch 'eradicate Hamas' to 'eradicate every violent {Islamic} terrorist group'. And by 'terrorist' I mean a group that actually intentionally targets civilians. Such as suicide and remotely detonated bombings on buses. Commercial jetliner hijackings.Or indiscriminate launching of unguided missiles into civilian inhabited areas. Public executions and dragging bodies through the streets. Beheadings. Throwing acid in girls faces ect ect.

For the record, evidence of widespread modern day conflicts around the world nearly all involve radical Islamists. These people can barely keep the peace among themselves, let alone their neighbours. These groups are an international security threat and everyone knows it.

Israel is simply dealing with the same thing most modern nations have. Like Russia. I wonder how Russia managed to handle their situation hmmmm. Haven't heard anything blowing up around them recently. Maybe Israel should take a page from the book of dealing with Islamic terrorism Russian style.

[Special Ed]

Ideally that would be good. But it's not a simple problem. Think how many people, military and civilian, were killed trying to get rid of Osama Bin Laden. Western countries and their foreign policies are not perfect: about as often as not western military intervention in the middle east and elsewhere has made things worse rather than better.

[Buddhas Hand]

Interesting. I'm guessing most of the Anti-Israelis on this forum are Caucasians living in North America. I suppose you would think it a reasonable response for the native population to start blowing up buses in your city, suicide bombing civilians, and shooting hundreds of rockets from reserves into neighbouring towns. I suppose you'd think the angry response would be "ironic" and condemn the governments from responding to stop the attacks.

Actually...no you wouldn't.

[Buddhas Hand]

those who have adopted pro-palestinian views seem to assume that the argument is anti-palestinian.

it is anti-hamas and anti-terrorism. apples and oranges, people.

too many little groups with different perspectives, morals and goals to lump them into 2 groups: palestinian and israeli.

[Buddhas Hand]

Nah. Just a continuation of the "strong-man" culture in the region.

Partly why i never shared the enthusiasm that some had for the revolution but more importantly the election of the MB.

[DarthNinja]

Call me a 'Zionist supporter' all you want. I'm not a Jew nor have even befriended one. Never been to Israel and don't plan to go. If being against radical Islamic factions who currently terrorize the world on a global scale makes me a 'Zionist supporter' well I guess I must be.

[Special Ed]

With all due respect, this statement, plain and simple, is precisely the reason why you are the last individual who is fit to comment on this topic due to how utterly clueless and ignorant you are of both the current and historical reality.

You know nothing about the reality, nothing about the history, nothing about any facts and every statement you've made reflects that you've done absolutely zero research into this subject.

The only thing you are capable of is merely regurgitating the nonsense that your TV fills your mind with.

[DarthNinja]

According to you? Well that's fine with me. I feel the same about you being disillusioned in the reality of the world and caught up in historical elements which have nothing to do with current events. I'm not into conspiracies and false flags. Personally I think they're ridiculous and overblown. If you don't like that about me no big deal lets just move on and you can simply not reply to my posts. But you won't deter me from posting with your 'you know nothing about nothing' speech. For a second time... I don't watch TV.

[Special Ed]

Wow....just...wow!

Say what you like, but you continuously display your ignorance on this topic. Don't worry, you're far from alone. I just had to reply to that last comment of yours because it punctuated your ignorance.

And I'm not saying 'you know nothing about nothing'. I'm saying you know nothing about this topic (except what the MSM feeds you).

[Tearloch7]

I have never been quite so involved in a topic since Shane Doan re-signed in the Desert .. for the record:

I neither hate Israel, nor love "Palestine" ..

I hate oppression, for it leads to war ..

I hate war, for it leads to fanaticism ..

I hate fanaticism, for it leads to loss of "self" ..

It is too easy to find something to hate ..

Shalom ..

[DarthNinja]

See we just have different perspectives here. Mine is that the problem Israel faces is not local. It's global issue which I have already outlined that several times. I personally don't believe that 'historical elements' revolving around 'land disputes' are relevant to the core issue with what's happening in regards. As i said the 'land disputes' are merely just an excuse therefore not relevant to me. I can see how that would look ignorant to someone who is certain about the 'land grab' senario. And I don't blame anyone for thinking that. Nor do I think I'm 100% right.

That being said I'm still open to discussion on this difficult topic. I have not insulted anyone and apologies to any disrespect others may have felt from my comments. I'm by no means perfect and as I have said before... A casual observer with an opinion. An opinion which could be swayed believe it or not, but I have not seen anything that would change it yet.

[Tearloch7]

See we just have different perspectives here. Mine is that the problem Israel faces is not local. It's global issue which I have already outlined that several times. I personally don't believe that 'historical elements' revolving around 'land disputes' are relevant to the core issue with what's happening in regards. As i said the 'land disputes' are merely just an excuse therefore not relevant to me. I can see how that would look ignorant to someone who is certain about the 'land grab' senario. And I don't blame anyone for thinking that. Nor do I think I'm 100% right.

That being said I'm still open to discussion on this difficult topic. I have not insulted anyone and apologies to any disrespect others may have felt from my comments. I'm by no means perfect and as I have said before... A casual observer with an opinion. An opinion which could be swayed believe it or not, but I have not seen anything that would change it yet.