Snapshot85 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 As a Proud Father of a beautiful young women.... I have been more intrested I womens leagues. I knew they made less then the men.... but it's crazy... RECENTLY FOUNDED NWHL is the best paying womens pro league at 15k/yr average salary .. and a 250k/yr team salary cap. I would love to see the nhl step in... I'm sure pro teams like the canucks leafs flames... would love to be in the equality mix... it would be good for them and the women.... I doubt the teams would miss a million or 2 and with that they could afford to pay the ladies enough to live. Anyways it's very intresting ...its worth a google. Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, Snapshot85 said: As a Proud Father of a beautiful young women.... I have been more intrested I womens leagues. I knew they made less then the men.... but it's crazy... RECENTLY FOUNDED NWHL is the best paying womens pro league at 15k/yr average salary .. and a 250k/yr team salary cap. I would love to see the nhl step in... I'm sure pro teams like the canucks leafs flames... would love to be in the equality mix... it would be good for them and the women.... I doubt the teams would miss a million or 2 and with that they could afford to pay the ladies enough to live. Anyways it's very intresting ...its worth a google. Cheers The NHL has donated money to the NWHL every year. Why should they donate any more than they already have? There's already a strike by over 200 premier players going on because the women want the NWHL to fold and the NHL to start a women's league. The NBA did that years ago when they created the WNBA and they've regretted it ever since. It continues to lose 8 figures every year. Not enough people want to watch women play basketball. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/wnba/2018/12/28/wnba-looks-for-new-president-profitability-in-2019/38809289/ A for profit league like the NWHL should stand on it's own 2 feet or fail just like any other for profit business venture. Two NHL teams have even already pulled out of the NWHL (Buffalo and New Jersey). The Sabres owners actually took total control of the Buffalo Beauts franchise last season and gave it back after 1 year. The CWHL folded last year because they couldn't bring in enough people to watch their games, and they were even a non-profit to boot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapshot85 Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 19 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said: The NHL has donated money to the NWHL every year. Why should they donate any more than they already have? There's already a strike by over 200 premier players going on because the women want the NWHL to fold and the NHL to start a women's league. The NBA did that years ago when they created the WNBA and they've regretted it ever since. It continues to lose 8 figures every year. Not enough people want to watch women play basketball. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/wnba/2018/12/28/wnba-looks-for-new-president-profitability-in-2019/38809289/ A for profit league like the NWHL should stand on it's own 2 feet or fail just like any other for profit business venture. Two NHL teams have even already pulled out of the NWHL (Buffalo and New Jersey). The Sabres owners actually took total control of the Buffalo Beauts franchise last season and gave it back after 1 year. The CWHL folded last year because they couldn't bring in enough people to watch their games, and they were even a non-profit to boot. Seriously ??? I'd be good if NWHL folded and NHL started a womens league. But 15k/year salary??.... team salary cap is less than a third of the league minimum of just 1 player in the nhl. Who cares if the league loses money.... nhl and owners are making a fortune!! What's a mil a team ?? It would be great for the sport to have a legit womens pro league. It would attract more young women to the game... which is great for the longevity and growth of the sport. Lots of females support hockey and support the nhl teams... why cant the nhl support a womens league. ?? Its asinine to say dont do it because it loses money. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapshot85 Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said: The NHL has donated money to the NWHL every year. Why should they donate any more than they already have? There's already a strike by over 200 premier players going on because the women want the NWHL to fold and the NHL to start a women's league. The NBA did that years ago when they created the WNBA and they've regretted it ever since. It continues to lose 8 figures every year. Not enough people want to watch women play basketball. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/wnba/2018/12/28/wnba-looks-for-new-president-profitability-in-2019/38809289/ A for profit league like the NWHL should stand on it's own 2 feet or fail just like any other for profit business venture. Two NHL teams have even already pulled out of the NWHL (Buffalo and New Jersey). The Sabres owners actually took total control of the Buffalo Beauts franchise last season and gave it back after 1 year. The CWHL folded last year because they couldn't bring in enough people to watch their games, and they were even a non-profit to boot. Ummmm... AHL would fold without the parent clubs!! Yes the nhl teams get something from it.... they would benefit from a womens league aswell. Edited October 27, 2019 by Snapshot85 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Snapshot85 said: Seriously ??? Yes. Quote I'd be good if NWHL folded and NHL started a womens league. That's you. Quote But 15k/year salary??.... team salary cap is less than a third of the league minimum of just 1 player in the nhl. Yes. That's because the league is highly profitable and the players take a share of the profits. Quote Who cares if the league loses money.... nhl and owners are making a fortune!! The owners didn't become millionaires and billionaires by giving their fortune away. Quote What's a mil a team ?? You're naive if you think it's the teams that would pay it in the end. Divide 1,000,000 by 82 and that's how much everybody's tickets will go up to pay for a league that 95% will most likely not even care about. Quote It would be great for the sport to have a legit womens pro league. It would attract more young women to the game... which is great for the longevity and growth of the sport. That was the same argument made for basketball/NBA yet the WNBA's attendance is declining and the lost money is rising. It's been over 20 years. Quote Lots of females support hockey and support the nhl teams... Yet they aren't packing the arenas to watch the NWHL. Like everyone else, they're more interested in the NHL. Minnesota was the only team in the league to turn a small profit last year. Quote why cant the nhl support a womens league. ?? They can, but it will be the fans in the NHL who pay for it. I watch the NWHL every season and even I don't want my Sabres tickets to rise in price to fund it. The NWHL can get my money through merch, and their ticket prices just like every other league. Quote Its asinine to say dont do it because it loses money. I hope you don't have dreams of ever running a Fortune 500 company... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 It'd be neat if the NHL would have a partnership with the NWHL to promote it, but professional hockey is an entertainment business and will only be as successful as the number of paying customers it attracts, which seems to be quite low, so I suspect it would simply bleed money for the NHL, so I doubt they'd be interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 14 minutes ago, Snapshot85 said: Ummmm... AHL would fold without the parent clubs!! Yes the nhl teams get something from it.... they would benefit from a womens league aswell. Not the same thing. Not even close. The NHL wants a feeder system in order to keep the gravy train in the NHL going. Without the AHL, the NHL wouldn't be as good as it is. An NHL run women's league would have no affect on the quality of the NHL. Wanna try again with another p*ss poor, not very well thought out idea? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Just now, -AJ- said: It'd be neat if the NHL would have a partnership with the NWHL to promote it, but professional hockey is an entertainment business and will only be as successful as the number of paying customers it attracts, which seems to be quite low. The NWHL had 3 NHL teams paying to promote it last year. Two of them have since left the league. People aren't exactly flooding to watch the games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapshot85 Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said: Yes. That's you. Yes. That's because the league is highly profitable and the players take a share of the profits. The owners didn't become millionaires and billionaires by giving their fortune away. You're naive if you think it's the teams that would pay it in the end. Divide 1,000,000 by 82 and that's how much everybody's tickets will go up to pay for a league that 95% will most likely not even care about. That was the same argument made for basketball/NBA yet the WNBA's attendance is declining and the lost money is rising. It's been over 20 years. Yet they aren't packing the arenas to watch the NWHL. Like everyone else, they're more interested in the NHL. Minnesota was the only team in the league to turn a small profit last year. They can, but it will be the fans in the NHL who pay for it. I watch the NWHL every season and even I don't want my Sabres tickets to rise in price to fund it. The NWHL can get my money through merch, and their ticket prices just like every other league. I hope you don't have dreams of ever running a Fortune 500 company... Lol... Your funny Did you know that the largest growing sector of minor hockey is womens?? I bet you diddnt.... To think that the NHL just because it's a for profit league doesnt have a obligation to the sport that built it is absolutely ridiculous. My fortune 500 company would do fine.... most spend 10s of millions on good will and equality.....makes the share holders happy. You probably focus on your quarterly divadends...... some dividends pay more but take decades. But hey what do I know... you sound like you know it all. Edited October 27, 2019 by Snapshot85 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapshot85 Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said: Not the same thing. Not even close. The NHL wants a feeder system in order to keep the gravy train in the NHL going. Without the AHL, the NHL wouldn't be as good as it is. An NHL run women's league would have no affect on the quality of the NHL. Wanna try again with another p*ss poor, not very well thought out idea? Yes I'm quite aware why the ahl exists and what its roll is... you said any for profit... The Ahl plays a important roll in the nhl ecosystem..... A womens league would also play a important roll. Both lose money. Womens league would lose less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, Snapshot85 said: Yes I'm quite aware why the ahl exists and what its roll is... you said any for profit... The Ahl plays a important roll in the nhl ecosystem..... A womens league would also play a important roll. Both lose money. Womens league would lose less. The AHL and NHL are heavily complementary products. AHL players very often feed directly into the NHL and helps the NHL be a better league. There's about a 0.000001% chance any woman would make it to the NHL if they were even crazy enough to use the same sort of system as the AHL. Even if the AHL on it's own would lose more money than a women's league, it still provides unseen additional revenues to the NHL via the complementary nature of the two leagues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Just now, Snapshot85 said: Lol... Your funny Lol, you're arguing with someone who has been watching and talking about the NWHL since it began while you have only just very recently learned that it even existed. I've had these discussions during NWHL games with people, on the Ice Garden website, the Athletic, etc. Quote Did you know that the largest growing sector of minor hockey is womens?? I bet you diddnt.... I'll bet you they've talked about it in the Ice Garden. If you start with a few hundred attendees and gain a few hundred more, walla, you're the fastest growing at a 100% rate of growth. Statistics can be deceiving especially when you compare small numbers to large numbers. Quote To think that the NHL just because it's a for profit league doesnt have a obligation to the sport that built it is absolutely ridiculous. To think that businessmen have an obligation to start another business just because you want social justice is absolutely ridiculous. Quote My fortune 500 company would do fine.... most spend 10s of millions on good will and equality.....makes the share holders happy. Your Fortune 500 would tank. I have no doubt of that when you say things like, "what's a million dollars" so cavalierly. Quote But hey what do I know... you sound like you know it all. I know more than you because I didn't just discover the subject matter and make a quick decision on what I think is right and wrong with other people's money. I've been talking about this subject with other for a few years now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Snapshot85 said: Yes I'm quite aware why the ahl exists and what its roll is... you said any for profit... The Ahl plays a important roll in the nhl ecosystem..... A womens league would also play a important roll. Both lose money. Womens league would lose less. A women's league wouldn't play an important role to the NHL. Again, that's what people said about the WNBA, and it never came true. It has struggled to interest people since day 1. The AHL is expected to lose money. It's a direct investment into the quality of the product that's on the NHL ice. Women's NHL-run hockey would have no direct influence on the quality of product in the NHL. And as the NBA has shown, it's very unlikely to do anything for attendance and interest in the men's league either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapshot85 Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, -AJ- said: The AHL and NHL are heavily complementary products. AHL players very often feed directly into the NHL and helps the NHL be a better league. There's about a 0.000001% chance any woman would make it to the NHL if they were even crazy enough to use the same sort of system as the AHL. Even if the AHL on it's own would lose more money than a women's league, it still provides unseen additional revenues to the NHL via the complementary nature of the two leagues. Hey AJ I understand what you and Sabre are saying. I'm not comparing the direct impact in the nhl revenue system as such. I highly doubt any women pros would make the nhl. What I'm saying is both leagues would have rolls in the nhl even though unprofitable on thier own. For the womens league... it would be to foster interest from young ladies in the sport .. in the end it would at the very least lead to more tickets sold and more merch sold by the nhl for nhl teams or womens league. Yes there is no direct number at this poin as to how much... but as I stated filling its roll it wouldnt matter... because it would be good for the sport of hockey ..... and what's good for the sport of hockey ultimately is good for the nhl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Snapshot85 said: Hey AJ I understand what you and Sabre are saying. I'm not comparing the direct impact in the nhl revenue system as such. I highly doubt any women pros would make the nhl. What I'm saying is both leagues would have rolls in the nhl even though unprofitable on thier own. For the womens league... it would be to foster interest from young ladies in the sport .. in the end it would at the very least lead to more tickets sold and more merch sold by the nhl for nhl teams or womens league. Yes there is no direct number at this poin as to how much... but as I stated filling its roll it wouldnt matter... because it would be good for the sport of hockey ..... and what's good for the sport of hockey ultimately is good for the nhl. Hmm you have something there perhaps, but I'm skeptical that added benefits of more interest in the NHL from women would match the cost of funding the league. I suppose it's something that would require more analysis and digging that is likely beyond the scope of us here on CDC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapshot85 Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said: A women's league wouldn't play an important role to the NHL. Again, that's what people said about the WNBA, and it never came true. It has struggled to interest people since day 1. The AHL is expected to lose money. It's a direct investment into the quality of the product that's on the NHL ice. Women's NHL-run hockey would have no direct influence on the quality of product in the NHL. And as the NBA has shown, it's very unlikely to do anything for attendance and interest in the men's league either. We will have to disagree then on many things my slightly hostile friend. To think you can compare the NHL and NBA and its fanbases is not a good argument. For reasons I wont get into on a public forum .... To think that investing in something because it's not profitable in profits you can see does not mean it does not have real world value. You may have been discussing NWHL alot longer than me... but I'm not new to women I hockey... I played with some elite level women players...I have been discussing womens in hockey long enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Snapshot85 said: Hey AJ I understand what you and Sabre are saying. I'm not comparing the direct impact in the nhl revenue system as such. I highly doubt any women pros would make the nhl. What I'm saying is both leagues would have rolls in the nhl even though unprofitable on thier own. For the womens league... it would be to foster interest from young ladies in the sport .. in the end it would at the very least lead to more tickets sold and more merch sold by the nhl for nhl teams or womens league. Yes there is no direct number at this poin as to how much... but as I stated filling its roll it wouldnt matter... because it would be good for the sport of hockey ..... and what's good for the sport of hockey ultimately is good for the nhl. "As a Proud Father of a beautiful young women", you want it for Social Justice reasons. You're parroting every poorly thought out and unresearched argument I've seen people make in comment sections about women's hockey for the last few years. Everything you've argued since is just to try and "win" a conversation and convince yourself that your wanting to feel good about giving money away is right. If you want to truly learn about Women's hockey, start here and read all of the old articles from when the league began and up to the current player strike: https://www.theicegarden.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapshot85 Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, -AJ- said: Hmm you have something there perhaps, but I'm skeptical that added benefits of more interest in the NHL from women would match the cost of funding the league. I suppose it's something that would require more analysis and digging that is likely beyond the scope of us here on CDC. When this turns into a womens rights issue..... how profitable would that be.... I'd think that the league would be much cheaper than guys not going to games or buying jerseys to support thier wifes and daughters in womens rights.... it is 2019 after all. Edited October 27, 2019 by Snapshot85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapshot85 Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 1 minute ago, SabreFan1 said: "As a Proud Father of a beautiful young women", you want it for Social Justice reasons. You're parroting every poorly thought out and unresearched argument I've seen people make in comment sections about women's hockey for the last few years. Everything you've argued since is just to try and "win" a conversation and convince yourself that your wanting to feel good about giving money away is right. If you want to truly learn about Women's hockey, start here and read all of the old articles from when the league began and up to the current player strike: https://www.theicegarden.com/ This is inaccurate. Think what you will... but dont pretend to know me. Sure social justice is part of it.... its 2019...... But my information on girls in hockey is from being involved with minor hockey in canada... And I will say it would be good for the sport of hockey and what's good for the sport of hockey is good for the NHL. If you dont get that I dont know what to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Snapshot85 said: Lol... and when this turns into a womens rights issue..... how profitable would that be.... I'd think that the league would be much cheaper than guys not going to games or buying jerseys to support thier lifes and daughters in womens rights.... it is 2019 after all. Just about half of the audience at the womens games are men. We're already supporting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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