Satan's Evil Twin Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 So what is your definition of a true chrsitian? All one has to do is say "I'm Christian." Then it doesn't matter what they do? I'm a true agnostic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlach Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 You know Jesus? That guy. In reality, it's an unattainable standard and using it excludes, I'm pretty sure, you and every other living human. I'm pretty sure most usages have resorted to using the term "Christian" for people who say they follow Jesus, regardless of to what degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlach Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Also I think I should just reiterate my point. Not all Christians are hateful and crazy just because some (perhaps even a lot) are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Yeah obviously people who say they are Christian don't always live up to those standards but the point isn't to be perfect but at least try and follow them. LIke I said they can say "We are Christians" but actions speak louder than words right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jägermeister Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Their are crazy Christians just as there are crazies in about every group of people. More often than not the crazies will become more publicized than your average member of the group. To assume all (or even most) Christians are crazy hate mongers, is the same as assuming all Muslims are extremists, despite the fact only a very small fraction of them actually fit that description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyfan87 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Their are crazy Christians just as there are crazies in about every group of people. More often than not the crazies will become more publicized than your average member of the group. To assume all (or even most) Christians are crazy hate mongers, is the same as assuming all Muslims are extremists, despite the fact only a very small fraction of them actually fit that description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlach Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Do you see many Christians giving up their possessions to the poor and going to spread the word? No? It's really not "don't always live up to those standards", it's more accurate to say "never live up to those standards". So how far can one stray from the paragon of a True Christian™ before they aren't considered one? What if their actions have their heart in the right place? Surely you don't suppose every good intention resolves itself favorably. Your point is right, not all Christians are hateful and crazy, but nobody suggested as much. You just suggested they weren't Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlach Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 The funny thing is that atheists could not possibly fathom the fact that they also have crazies in their community. It's a reason why I don't identify myself as an atheist anymore and would probably now say I'm a pragmatic agnostic. The worst atheists are just as intolerant as the some of the worst christians. Personally I can't understand spending my life being intolerant and ridiculing the lives of others which is something a segment of both the atheist and christian populations like to enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tearloch7 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 The funny thing is that atheists could not possibly fathom the fact that they also have crazies in their community. It's a reason why I don't identify myself as an atheist anymore and would probably now say I'm a pragmatic agnostic. The worst atheists are just as intolerant as the some of the worst christians. Personally I can't understand spending my life being intolerant and ridiculing the lives of others which is something a segment of both the atheist and christian populations like to enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Their are crazy CDCers just as there are crazies in about every group of people. More often than not the crazies will become more publicized than your average member of the group. To assume all (or even most) CDCers are crazy hate mongers, is the same as assuming all Canucks fans are extremists, despite the fact only a very small fraction of them actually fit that description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Yeah you're right I was hasty with my words and was wrong to say this guy isn't a Christian. What I should have (and what I originally meant to) argued was that not all Christians are crazy and discriminatory like this sect. Though I do maintain that there should be a difference between what groups we label as christian and true christian based upon their actions. No one is going to live up to Christ's standards (that's the post, he's the perfect example) but when one group calls out certain people, like homosexuals, or is doing harmful things to them we should ask "is that something someone who supposedly believes in a message of love and tolerance would actually do?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 The funny thing is that atheists could not possibly fathom the fact that they also have crazies in their community. It's a reason why I don't identify myself as an atheist anymore and would probably now say I'm a pragmatic agnostic. The worst atheists are just as intolerant as the some of the worst christians. Personally I can't understand spending my life being intolerant and ridiculing the lives of others which is something a segment of both the atheist and christian populations like to enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlach Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 You will continue to run into the same problem of no true Scotsman as long as you try to separate the Christians who aren't hateful bigots from those whose actions dictate they are. Why? Because if you listen to those degenerates, you will notice they think they are doing good. The most insane, hateful Christian you can imagine, will just as likely think he's doing good with his actions. That's the thing, we're human and can be convinced of anything, and some are convinced they hateful acts are for good cause. That's like saying you maintain there should be a difference between what groups we label as Greeks based upon their actions. There is a difference, it's in their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyfan87 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 What? Really? That post is 100% wrong is 150% bull, what part do you guys agree with? Is it the part where he paints atheists as having more in common than lack of belief in a god(s)? Is it the part where he decides to call himself something else based on the previous misconception? Or is it where he equates the worst atheists to worst theists? Or Is it where he suggests that atheists are intolerant and ridiculing? Do you agree with his newly found "pragmatic agnosticism"? Or the suggestion he's no longer an atheist because he does not wish to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Yeah I think we are pretty close to agreement. But just because someone believes they are doing good doesn't mean they are (obviously you agree with that). Similarly someone who believes they are following Christ's teachings aren't necessarily following them, and even if they think they are we should be able to distinguish them from those who are just by using reason. The difference between Greeks or Scotsman is that they were born into that specific nationality their actions don't make or break them as Greeks or Scots. Being Christian isn't supposed to just be believing Christ is God or whatever they believe, but actually trying to follow his examples and so their actions do matter...as far as being a factor for distinguishing certain Christian groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlach Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 What? Really? That post is 100% wrong is 150% bull, what part do you guys agree with? Is it the part where he paints atheists as having more in common than lack of belief in a god(s)? Is it the part where he decides to call himself something else based on the previous misconception? Or is it where he equates the worst atheists to worst theists? Or Is it where he suggests that atheists are intolerant and ridiculing? Do you agree with his newly found "pragmatic agnosticism"? Or the suggestion he's no longer an atheist because he does not wish to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 So when Stalin (an atheist) attacked and destroyed the churches in the Soviet USSR would you say he wasn't a true atheist? I mean come on are you a hypocrite? What he did constituted genocide according to international law so you can put him right up there with theists who have also committed genocide in the name of religion. Or does the true Scotsman fallacy only apply when it is suitable for your own personal views. I don't believe in god but I'd rather not call myself an atheist for practical reasons. I have had many religious friends throughout the course of my life and I know what grief they have been given by know it alls like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlach Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Doesn't god see into the hearts of all men and even those whose harts are pure and actions are misguided are Christians? Ignorance shouldn't be underestimated when it comes to religious actions. I think you just solved the no true Scotsman fallacy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyfan87 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I agreed that both groups have crazy people and both groups can be intolerant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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