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Canada Closes Embassy in Iran, Expels Iranian Diplomats from Canada


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#121 skolozsy2

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 05:34 PM

mate i agree with what you are saying , and i have never said israel is the only one causing the tension in that area .
but we in the west seem to support israel , and they seem to be the catalyst for a lot of the friction in the middle east .

as i state in my profile , i try my best to treat others the way i expect to be treated myself , and i wish more people in the world lived by this ideal , and if they did there would not be as many problems like the one we are discussing in the world today.

i completely understand whay you're saying and dont dispute any of what you said. We in the west have sworn to protect Israel and they seem to abuse it way too often. Unfortunetly, pulling our support could lead to a regional war in which nukes get used and Israel ceases too exist. No real good solution...atleast not one that will appease everyone.

As to your 2nd part....amen. If only more people had that attitude, then this topic wouldnt exist.


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#122 Pouria

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:23 PM

Not to mention our geographic location. Good luck on invading Norh America. that's goes for even more powerful nations like china and Russia. You have a stronger ground force which still needs to be moved accross the ocean. So we can hit u with the luxury of not being hit back. And I highly doubt the US is letting Canada be replaced up north or Britain. Good luck with invading the fortress that is NA.

And we have not recruited hard like others. Imagine a threat on Canadian soil. I'm fairly certain our forces in service would increase drastically. ATM we are a docile country but we have proven to be a strong when needed.

With our history in the WW and what I have seen and read currently. We have some of the best troops in the world. Study warfare enough and you see how numbers often mean very little. Training, strategy, equipment, leadership and moral all play a major role.


Who said anything about invading NA?? This was just a discussion about what the results of Canada vs. Iran would be in a conventional war in a vacuum. It is just a comparison in a vacuum between the two military not about invasions, allies and blah blah. Someone said that Iran's army is more powerful than the Canadian army because it was ranked higher. Thats it, don't make it complicated and bring in scenarios about invasions and whatnot.
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#123 Pouria

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:29 PM

Canada vrs Iran. Iran can't even cross the ocean to get to us. We hit them they cat even hit us. I know who would win that battle. We have the capability to strike and weaken the Iranian infrastructure. They do not have the ability to weaken ours.


Canada needs to get permission from big daddy US to come and attack Iran. They would need permission to use US bases. How many Canadian bases do you think there is in the Persian gulf? I can tell you that it is far less than the US bases. You need some kind of base and a bunch of vessels there for air craft refueling, navigation among other things. You can't just fly a jet from Canada to Iran, throw a couple of bombs and come back. If it was this easy to invade or weaken infrastructures of other countries, then Israel would've declared war on Iran already.

Edited by Pouria, 08 September 2012 - 08:29 PM.

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#124 Pouria

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:43 PM

You speak for all Iranians? Many Iranians in Canada are refugees who had to flee their homeland as a result of the revolution. The truth is the Iranian community is pretty split about the move. Some welcome it, as they hate the regime. Others fear it could create difficulties for people wishing to travel between Iran and Canada:

http://www.canada.co...9247/story.html


So none of those "refugees" want to go back and visit their family in Iran? Really? How do you know? Do you know most of the Iranians here or are you just making stuff up? Abolishing the Iranian embassy and removing the Canadian embassy from Tehran, will make it impossible for some of the young Iranians who haven't taken the 2 year military training to visit Iran. It will cause some issues in terms of renewing passports or stamping Iranian passports for 3 month visits, and it might also take away dual citizenship. You are just talking out of ignorance and don't know the real situation.
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#125 Tearloch7

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:50 PM

As I said at the beginning of this thread, it is never good when diplomatic opportunities are lost, and it makes me wonder if something is "in the works"? .. I would not put anything past the current Israeli government, tho they will probably wait until after the US elections on November 6th .. all hell could break loose in the Mid-east if their is any "pre-emptive" action taken .. does anyone else smell a "Weapons of Mass Destruction" ploy in the making??
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#126 Pouria

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:01 PM

All the Iranians I know. Quite a few, including my gfs family. All very much dislike the regime. All have told me that at times their houses hAve been invaded without warning. That family members are taken without reason or known length of time.

Imagine if our police could kick down your door at 3am take your brother and father. Go through all personals and leave your home in shambles. All without warrant or reason. When you hear these things you become a little more appreciative of what we have here eh.


Yes, we dislike the regime but we still like to visit our homeland and see our people (family, friends, relatives etc.) Cutting off the channel of communication like this is really bad for us who want to visit Iran and see the land that we were born in. The regime is crap but the land has not changed and the people are still the same.
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#127 Pouria

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:04 PM

As I said at the beginning of this thread, it is never good when diplomatic opportunities are lost, and it makes me wonder if something is "in the works"? .. I would not put anything past the current Israeli government, tho they will probably wait until after the US elections on November 6th .. all hell could break loose in the Mid-east if their is any "pre-emptive" action taken .. does anyone else smell a "Weapons of Mass Destruction" ploy in the making??


I don't know what will happen but something is up. It is just so random that Canada cuts diplomatic ties with Iran just now. Why didn't they cut it a couple of years ago or the year when Bush mentioned Iran as part of the axis of evil. Harper must know something we don't or he is just licking Netanyahu's balls.

Edited by Pouria, 08 September 2012 - 08:05 PM.

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#128 Electro Rock

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:07 PM

Iran may not be much of a military power but they are a force to be reckoned with when it comes to practicing terrorism and unconventional warfare, which incidently the reason their embassy was kicked out.

On the other hand Canada has always been quite vulnerable when it comes to internal security threats. Losing their terrorist recruitment and clandestine service operating base of an embassy should hinder Iranian terror plans quite a bit, but it's just not hard to hurt a country like Canada via internal attack.
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#129 Pouria

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:09 PM

We could each spell out various scenarios where either side "may" dominate .. so it becomes moot .. 3.8 million troops versus 128,000, half of those being reserves .. technology would even it out some but if we learned anything from Iraq, it is that once you need to put people on the ground and in harms way, it changes the dynamic completely .. it is like fighting forest fires .. you can bomb fires infinitum, but you need boots-on-the-ground to put the fire out .. obvious scenario is that we would have to invade them, since we initiated this "action", and we would lose ..

As far as dreams, where would a man be without his dreams .. it was my attempt to end my part of this pointless discussion .. :lol:


I agree. Technology is good but it is limited. If war was fought by only a bunch of air crafts, there wouldn't be any US army in the middle east. They would just send planes, bomb the place and comeback (simplistic idea of most people here who think a war is similar to their simulated video games)
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#130 Common sense

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:28 PM

As I said at the beginning of this thread, it is never good when diplomatic opportunities are lost, and it makes me wonder if something is "in the works"? .. I would not put anything past the current Israeli government, tho they will probably wait until after the US elections on November 6th .. all hell could break loose in the Mid-east if their is any "pre-emptive" action taken .. does anyone else smell a "Weapons of Mass Destruction" ploy in the making??


The question is, why enter into diplomatic opportunities when the Iranian government has shown no signs of wanting to enter into one?
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#131 Pouria

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:35 PM

Iran may not be much of a military power but they are a force to be reckoned with when it comes to practicing terrorism and unconventional warfare, which incidently the reason their embassy was kicked out.

On the other hand Canada has always been quite vulnerable when it comes to internal security threats. Losing their terrorist recruitment and clandestine service operating base of an embassy should hinder Iranian terror plans quite a bit, but it's just not hard to hurt a country like Canada via internal attack.


Tell me when has Iran ever planned a terrorist attack on the Canadian soil? When did a terrorist attack happened here? In fact, I don't even recall an Iranian terrorist attacking any part of North America. The other question is, why would Iran even care about Canada? Canada is irrelevant when it comes to world politics and it isn't a significant target or priority for Iran to attack Canada since they won't gain anything anyways. US and Israel are their targets because they receive threats from them but I doubt they even care about Canada.
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#132 Pouria

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:42 PM

The question is, why enter into diplomatic opportunities when the Iranian government has shown no signs of wanting to enter into one?


The Iranian regime can care less about Canada but it is the Iranian-Canadians who will suffer more from this decision. Having a Canadian embassy in Tehran or not won't make any difference to Iran but it only meets Harper's stupid agenda of satisfying the Israeli government. If Israel ever goes to war, you can bet Canada will be fighting along side them before American politicians could make a decision of joining them or not. It is the reason why I hope someone else from the Liberals or NDP get elected to displace Harper as PM.
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#133 Common sense

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:54 PM

The Iranian regime can care less about Canada but it is the Iranian-Canadians who will suffer more from this decision. Having a Canadian embassy in Tehran or not won't make any difference to Iran but it only meets Harper's stupid agenda of satisfying the Israeli government. If Israel ever goes to war, you can bet Canada will be fighting along side them before American politicians could make a decision of joining them or not. It is the reason why I hope someone else from the Liberals or NDP get elected to displace Harper as PM.


A lot of fuss is being made by you over the Iranian-Canadians, but it appears as if the reaction is mixed in said community - http://www.globaltve...0863/story.html.
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#134 Tearloch7

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:57 PM

The question is, why enter into diplomatic opportunities when the Iranian government has shown no signs of wanting to enter into one?


No offense but we only have the word of the western powers as to what Iran has offered diplomatically .. how do we know? .. would you believe the word of an "entity" that invented weapons of mass discussion based on invented criteria in order to justify invading a sovereign country? .. then use that information to beguile your allies into joining you? .. thank goodness the Liberals were in power and told Bush to bugger off .. we really have no idea what goes on behind closed diplomatic doors .. I trust none of them as they all have their own agenda's
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#135 Pouria

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:59 PM

A lot of fuss is being made by you over the Iranian-Canadians, but it appears as if the reaction is mixed in said community - http://www.globaltve...0863/story.html.


Because am Iranian-Canadian..duh, of course it is a big deal to me, it might not be to you. The mixed reaction from a small sample size of Iranians interviewed doesn't give the whole picture. There are a lot of Iranians here that visit Iran, so you can disregard the mix reaction bit you got from that news article. Plus all of my friends are disappointed about this news and I've got a lot of Persian friends.
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#136 Tearloch7

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:04 PM

I do believe the majority of "aware" Canadians have great respect and compassion for the Iranian people .. I fervently hope that some day there will be true separation of Church and State there, and thru out the Middle East, and indeed, the world ..
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#137 Common sense

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:09 PM

Because am Iranian-Canadian..duh, of course it is a big deal to me, it might not be to you. The mixed reaction from a small sample size of Iranians interviewed doesn't give the whole picture. There are a lot of Iranians here that visit Iran, so you can disregard the mix reaction bit you got from that news article. Plus all of my friends are disappointed about this news and I've got a lot of Persian friends.


I don't and can't discount the fact that you're of Iranian descent, and as an Iranian-Canadian you would obviously know a lot others. What I can question is the sentiment of the 120,000 current Iranian-Canadians compared to the sample size you provide (ie. your friends).

I'm showing that there's a lot more to this than just the passports and visas; there's the refugees and those who faced persecution at the hands of the Iranian government.
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#138 Common sense

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:11 PM

No offense but we only have the word of the western powers as to what Iran has offered diplomatically .. how do we know? .. would you believe the word of an "entity" that invented weapons of mass discussion based on invented criteria in order to justify invading a sovereign country? .. then use that information to beguile your allies into joining you? .. thank goodness the Liberals were in power and told Bush to bugger off .. we really have no idea what goes on behind closed diplomatic doors .. I trust none of them as they all have their own agenda's


Obviously, living in the western world, we are biased to western-based news. What is being said about this decision from the Iranian side; are there any news articles coming from Iran?
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#139 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:28 PM

The Iranian regime can care less about Canada but it is the Iranian-Canadians who will suffer more from this decision. Having a Canadian embassy in Tehran or not won't make any difference to Iran but it only meets Harper's stupid agenda of satisfying the Israeli government. If Israel ever goes to war, you can bet Canada will be fighting along side them before American politicians could make a decision of joining them or not. It is the reason why I hope someone else from the Liberals or NDP get elected to displace Harper as PM.


So true.

And this is another reason, why elections matter....though i'm sure I don't have to tell you or other Iranian-Canadians that.
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#140 Clark Kent

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:32 PM

An issue fighting Iran is the use of children. They would send them out into the foxholes, and overwhelm the position; This was a tactic used in the Iran-Iraq war. Why is this an issue? Our soldiers are noble people, they value life, and they do not shoot children.


Iran-Iraq war shouldn't be used as an example. During that war, Iran had no army as it had been disbanded to prevent a coup. Iran was not able to use fighter jets (which at the time, Iran's air force was equipped with the latest technology that the US would sell). Not to mention Iraq was supported by most of the world, weapons from some, intelligence and what not from others. Iraq also used chemical weapons.

Iranians were volunteering to go and fight and so they did. That is were the Basij came from.

On the first bolded part.....I agree, if Canada wanted to wage a battle all the way in Iran, it would be a real challenge....however, if you meant the geography as in terrain would be an impediment, then I have to ask you, what kind of terrain does Iran possess that Canada doesn't and hasn't trained her military members in?


I didn't mean because of terrain, I meant Iran would have all the advantages of being able to use its missile arsenal against Canadian ships, would have an advantage of man power if Canadians tried to land on the shores.

But when you bring terrain into the store, sure Canada has areas which are just as mountainous as Iran, but the Iranians known their mountains better. Keep in mind that Iran has been expecting a US invasion for thirty plus years, they have complex tunnels built, set up covert bases, and all the other things that would give them an advantage in a war.

I'm not trying to take anything away from the Canadian Forces, but if Iran has home advantage, it will win.


The second bolded part....the answer is none. And i'm ok with that, those suckers are too expensive and I wouldn't want to get into the carrier business with our tax dollars.


Well okay then.

On the third bolded part, which air asset does Iran have that would be a match for our upgraded CF-18A Hornets, let alone one armed with some of the most advanced missile, radar, communications and other avionic technology?


I don't remember what my third point was, and I am too tried to go back and look (just finished a thirteen hour work shift), but Iran has a pretty advanced air defence system that would counter the Canadian Air Force. Not to mention they have their own aircrafts which has been getting better, not nearly good enough, but better. At the very least they can be used as kamikaze crafts.

Couple of side notes:

Iran is set to have a week long (I could be wrong, but I believe it's a week) air defence drill, in which they say they will show a domestically made SAM system that that is based on, but more advanced than the S300. Now, either they are full of crap, or the rumors about them getting the blueprints for the S300 systems, and had some Russian scientist come and show them how to build it.

Second note, Iran's aircraft knowledge should be growing dramatically after studying the UAV that landed in Iran.
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#141 Clark Kent

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:35 PM

Obviously, living in the western world, we are biased to western-based news. What is being said about this decision from the Iranian side; are there any news articles coming from Iran?


The problem is, both sides are so full of crap, that it neither is really worth reading.
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#142 Navyblue

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:48 PM

Who said anything about invading NA?? This was just a discussion about what the results of Canada vs. Iran would be in a conventional war in a vacuum. It is just a comparison in a vacuum between the two military not about invasions, allies and blah blah. Someone said that Iran's army is more powerful than the Canadian army because it was ranked higher. Thats it, don't make it complicated and bring in scenarios about invasions and whatnot.


I found it interesting
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#143 Pouria

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:50 PM

I don't and can't discount the fact that you're of Iranian descent, and as an Iranian-Canadian you would obviously know a lot others. What I can question is the sentiment of the 120,000 current Iranian-Canadians compared to the sample size you provide (ie. your friends).

I'm showing that there's a lot more to this than just the passports and visas; there's the refugees and those who faced persecution at the hands of the Iranian government.


I really doubt that there are this many Iranian Canadians who are happy about this, because it technically means that it will be harder for them to go to Iran. Not sure why so many of them would be happy about the cutting of diplomatic ties with Iran since it doesn't necessarily benefit them in any way. Especially if they have family or relatives there and want to send them a letter of invitation to visit Canada. The negatives far outweigh the positives for these people, so am not sure why they are that happy. Besides, there is also a mixed reaction in the parliament about Harper's decision to cut diplomatic ties with Iran. I think there is definitely more to this than Harper's lame excuse about the safety of Canadian diplomats due to the British embassy crisis.
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#144 Special Ed

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:33 PM

I really doubt that there are this many Iranian Canadians who are happy about this, because it technically means that it will be harder for them to go to Iran. Not sure why so many of them would be happy about the cutting of diplomatic ties with Iran since it doesn't necessarily benefit them in any way. Especially if they have family or relatives there and want to send them a letter of invitation to visit Canada. The negatives far outweigh the positives for these people, so am not sure why they are that happy. Besides, there is also a mixed reaction in the parliament about Harper's decision to cut diplomatic ties with Iran. I think there is definitely more to this than Harper's lame excuse about the safety of Canadian diplomats due to the British embassy crisis.


Personally I'm not happy about this, as it screws with my life and friends. I kind of thought having the ability to communicate with the Iranian regime was a plus. America = bad cop / Canada = good cop. I do agree with you that it seems there is more to this. I'm concerned about any possibility of a strike against Iran.

Edited by Special Ed, 08 September 2012 - 10:49 PM.

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#145 Pouria

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:37 AM

Personally I'm not happy about this, as it screws with my life and friends. I kind of thought having the ability to communicate with the Iranian regime was a plus. America = bad cop / Canada = good cop. I do agree with you that it seems there is more to this. I'm concerned about any possibility of a strike against Iran.


That is the thing that concerns me, because completely cutting off diplomatic ties with Iran out of nowhere, and without linkage to any serious event tells me Harper knows something we don't. Heck, even America provides some basic service to Iranian-Americans visiting Iran but the fact that the government of Canada is advising Canadians (including Iranian-Canadians) against travel to Iran and eliminates even the most basic or necessary services to Canadians in Iran tells me something significant is bound to happen. Only a country that goes to war with another would completely terminate diplomatic ties.
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#146 Sharpshooter

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:38 AM

Why Canada severed relations with Iran

-snip-


Ken Taylor, who was Canada's ambassador in Iran during the U.S. hostage crisis that began in 1979, told CBC's Hannah Thibedeau he doesn't agree with Canada's decision to suspend diplomatic relations.

"Given Canada's status as an international player, there's great value to having someone there on the ground who can interpret what is going on, to the extent that there are challenges to doing that properly," he said.

Mundy said that now, "We no longer have the ability to communicate directly, government to government, with the Iranian government."

Stein says, "The major impact will be on the Iranian diaspora in Canada, which will have a lot more difficulty getting visas to go home for visits."

Canadians imprisoned in Iran

Another significant impact to Mundy is that "we no longer have Canadian diplomats on the ground to protect the interests of Canadian citizens" in Iran. "There are a lot of Canadian citizens in Iran, some of whom are in jail, and some of whom depend upon the Canadian diplomats to make representations on their behalf."

Hamid Ghassemi-Shall, a Canadian citizen jailed in Iran since 2008, is one of three Canadians being held in Iran's notorious Evin prison, the same prison where Canadian photojournalist Zahra Kazemi was killed in 2003, which led to a serious worsening of relations between the two countries.

Iran sentenced Ghassemi-Shall to death in 2009.

His wife, Antonella Mega, told Thibedeau on Power and Politics that she feels the Canadian announcement is "a great disappointment for me and Hamid." The diplomats who have now left Iran "have expressed great concern for Hamid's case" and "have been continuously advocating for him."

Feeling that "a door is now closed," Mega said she wants to hear from the Canadian government, "What is the plan that Canada has to help Hamid?"

http://news.ca.msn.c...ons-with-iran-1


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#147 Pouria

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:47 AM


All it means is that I can't go to Iran anymore to visit family and friends. Thank you Harper!
No Iranian-Canadians would take the risk of going to Iran anymore (especially carrying a Canadian passport). There is no Canadian diplomats to represent us and the regime could potentially imprison random innocent Canadian travelers for no reason because Canada can't do anything. Severing diplomatic ties basically gives the reign to the Iranian government to do anything they want with Canadian-Iranians living there and maybe even wrongfully accuse them of espionage.
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#148 Sharpshooter

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:59 AM

All it means is that I can't go to Iran anymore to visit family and friends. Thank you Harper!
No Iranian-Canadians would take the risk of going to Iran anymore (especially carrying a Canadian passport). There is no Canadian diplomats to represent us and the regime could potentially imprison random innocent Canadian travelers for no reason because Canada can't do anything. Severing diplomatic ties basically gives the reign to the Iranian government to do anything they want with Canadian-Iranians living there and maybe even wrongfully accuse them of espionage.


Harper doesn't care about brown people.
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#149 لني

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 01:11 AM

Canada does very little for its citizens abroad.

I have friends who had to be evacuated during the first gulf war and had to rely on the americans while the yokel canucks showed up late.

They were also largely no shows during the conflict in libya as my company was trying to evac canadian citizens

The british/canadian gentleman who was a victim of saudis coverup of terrorist attacks in the earlier 2000s had some interesting perspective of his dealing with both the brit and canadian diplomats while he was being tortured in a saudi prison.
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It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.


Logic at its finest.

#150 Pouria

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 01:27 AM

Harper doesn't care about brown people.


Iranians aren't brown buddy. They are Aryans (Indo-Europeans) and some are white and look Caucasian. The only thing Harper cares about is Israel. I wonder if Mr. Harper had a sleepover tonight at Mr. Netanyahoo's house. I bet they are having butt sex right now.

Also, here are the examples of pure Iranians (not all are brown, only some are brown while others are white)

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Edited by Pouria, 09 September 2012 - 01:50 AM.

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