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#391 Wetcoaster

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:25 PM

So how is it that smoke from cars, trucks and other industry is easily dissipated in the air, yet second hand smoke from 1 cigarette out doors is life threatening?

Again... BS detector is going off.

Only if you ignore the clear evidence.

According to medical evidence (including that of the US Surgeon General) secondhand smoke is much more toxic, contains more carcinogenic substances that pose an immediate risk to health than the other pollutants that you mention.
http://www.surgeonge...moke/index.html
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#392 NuckNuckNucks

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:39 PM

Only if you ignore the clear evidence.

According to medical evidence (including that of the US Surgeon General) secondhand smoke is much more toxic, contains more carcinogenic substances that pose an immediate risk to health than the other pollutants that you mention.
http://www.surgeonge...moke/index.html


Can you put your face right up to the muffler of an idling car for a few minutes and get back to us with your findings?
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You have to be a true bandwagoneer if you buy Mike's line about looking for the right deal to trade Luongo.

True fans and hockey diehards know, that is double talk for, "Luongo is a high ticket commodity now or next year, we'll keep him around just in case Schneider turns out to be a lemon and chokes games."

And choke he will.

I know this. I'm never wrong.

#393 Dral

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:46 PM

Only if you ignore the clear evidence.

According to medical evidence (including that of the US Surgeon General) secondhand smoke is much more toxic, contains more carcinogenic substances that pose an immediate risk to health than the other pollutants that you mention.
http://www.surgeonge...moke/index.html


Sure... I believe that.. smoking probably is more harmful if you consider the same amount of smoke... but how many packs of smokes would I have to go through to equal the same emissions as driving a truck for 1 hour?
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#394 Wetcoaster

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:03 PM

Can you put your face right up to the muffler of an idling car for a few minutes and get back to us with your findings?

Irrelevant.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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#395 Tearloch7

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:05 PM

Can you put your face right up to the muffler of an idling car for a few minutes and get back to us with your findings?


No, but I bet you could .. :sick:
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#396 Wetcoaster

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:09 PM

Sure... I believe that.. smoking probably is more harmful if you consider the same amount of smoke... but how many packs of smokes would I have to go through to equal the same emissions as driving a truck for 1 hour?

Consider these findings from the US Surgeon General:

  • Cigarette smoke contains more than 4,000 chemical compounds.
    • Secondhand smoke contains many of the same chemicals that are present in the smoke inhaled by smokers.
    • Because sidestream smoke is generated at lower temperatures and under different conditions than mainstream smoke, it contains higher concentrations of many of the toxins found in cigarette smoke.
  • The National Toxicology Program estimates that at least 250 chemicals in secondhand smoke are known to be toxic or carcinogenic.
  • Secondhand smoke has been designated as a known human carcinogen (cancer-causing agent) by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the National Toxicology Program, and the International Agency for Research on Cancer, and an occupational carcinogen by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health.
    • Secondhand smoke contains more than 50 cancer-causing chemicals.
    • When nonsmokers are exposed to secondhand smoke, they inhale many of the same cancer-causing chemicals that smokers inhale.

The Surgeon General has concluded that:
  • There is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke: even small amounts of secondhand smoke exposure can be harmful to people’s health

As I understand it car exhaust emissions are not any where near as toxic nor as concentrated and not an immediate health hazard to the same degree as second hand smoke.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#397 hudson bay rules

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:26 PM

I always laugh when people compare cigarette smoke to car exhaust. Firstly, they are both regulated and their negative effects are on the decline. Secondly, can you really imagine a world without cars as everything you can see in your life has arrived by car or truck? From the milk in your fridge to the computer you're presently on to the antibiotics you treat your cat with.

Edited by hudson bay rules, 06 January 2013 - 07:11 PM.

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#398 Wetcoaster

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:01 PM

I always laugh when people compare cigarette smoke to car exhaust. Firstly, they are both regulated and their negative effect are on the decline. Secondly, can you really imagine a world without cars as everything you can see in your life has arrived by car or truck. From the milk in your fridge to the computer you're presently on to the antibiotics you treat your cat with.

Hey a social utility and value comparison - that is unfair. :lol:
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#399 NuckNuckNucks

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:57 PM

Blah blah blah cut and paste blah blah


OK I'll stand in a room full of smokers for 1 hour and you stand in a closed garage with the car running for 15 minutes.

Let's both report our findings.
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You have to be a true bandwagoneer if you buy Mike's line about looking for the right deal to trade Luongo.

True fans and hockey diehards know, that is double talk for, "Luongo is a high ticket commodity now or next year, we'll keep him around just in case Schneider turns out to be a lemon and chokes games."

And choke he will.

I know this. I'm never wrong.

#400 jmfaminoff

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:18 PM

OK I'll stand in a room full of smokers for 1 hour and you stand in a closed garage with the car running for 15 minutes.

Let's both report our findings.

Comparing apples to oranges. Completely different.
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#401 Dral

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:40 PM

Consider these findings from the US Surgeon General:

  • Cigarette smoke contains more than 4,000 chemical compounds.
    • Secondhand smoke contains many of the same chemicals that are present in the smoke inhaled by smokers.
    • Because sidestream smoke is generated at lower temperatures and under different conditions than mainstream smoke, it contains higher concentrations of many of the toxins found in cigarette smoke.
  • The National Toxicology Program estimates that at least 250 chemicals in secondhand smoke are known to be toxic or carcinogenic.
  • Secondhand smoke has been designated as a known human carcinogen (cancer-causing agent) by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the National Toxicology Program, and the International Agency for Research on Cancer, and an occupational carcinogen by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health.
    • Secondhand smoke contains more than 50 cancer-causing chemicals.
    • When nonsmokers are exposed to secondhand smoke, they inhale many of the same cancer-causing chemicals that smokers inhale.
The Surgeon General has concluded that:
  • There is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke: even small amounts of secondhand smoke exposure can be harmful to people’s health
As I understand it car exhaust emissions are not any where near as toxic nor as concentrated and not an immediate health hazard to the same degree as second hand smoke.



Sure... I believe that.. smoking probably is more harmful if you consider the same amount of smoke... but how many packs of smokes would I have to go through to equal the same emissions as driving a truck for 1 hour?
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#402 Salmonberries

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:50 PM

I for one always make sure to stand downwind whenever I smoke my pipe outdoors. Wind direction is almost everything I find. Distance isn't worth much if the wind is blowin' that smoke back into the crowd. Also, the pipe emits an aromatic sweet melony cloud that is very pleasant and that the chicks especially seem to dig. The good folks at Borkum Riff deserve the credit here. Alternatively, when treating my nasty roomatizz condition with a white widow strain from the medical dispensary, I am a little less cautious, especially around the younger set who seem to enjoy the pungent aroma.

Once you realize that man has evolved into a big baby in our time the rest is just common sense.

Edited by Keke Mortson's helmet, 06 January 2013 - 09:52 PM.

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#403 J.R.

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:06 PM

I actually had to inform TWO people outside a Superstore that they're smoking within 10' of the door was not aloud. I was all the more annoyed that they seemed to not care that I was standing there with one of my newborn twin sons and our dog. F'ing disgusting.
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#404 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:58 PM

I for one always make sure to stand downwind whenever I smoke my pipe outdoors. Wind direction is almost everything I find. Distance isn't worth much if the wind is blowin' that smoke back into the crowd. Also, the pipe emits an aromatic sweet melony cloud that is very pleasant and that the chicks especially seem to dig. The good folks at Borkum Riff deserve the credit here. Alternatively, when treating my nasty roomatizz condition with a white widow strain from the medical dispensary, I am a little less cautious, especially around the younger set who seem to enjoy the pungent aroma.

Once you realize that man has evolved into a big baby in our time the rest is just common sense.


Dude, you smoke a pipe, that means you're a gentleman, who would get angry with a guy smoking a pipe!?
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#405 nux4lyfe

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:01 AM

I actually had to inform TWO people outside a Superstore that they're smoking within 10' of the door was not aloud. I was all the more annoyed that they seemed to not care that I was standing there with one of my newborn twin sons and our dog. F'ing disgusting.


Which was pretty much the exact same situation for me to begin with, but as you can tell, these d-bags will make every and any excuse to justify their inconsideration...does anyone even enforce these rules? You're quicker to get a ticket for not wearing a seat belt...I have yet to see anyone smoking illegally get a ticket...it's like a bs rule.
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#406 Dral

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:40 AM

Which was pretty much the exact same situation for me to begin with, but as you can tell, these d-bags will make every and any excuse to justify their inconsideration...does anyone even enforce these rules? You're quicker to get a ticket for not wearing a seat belt...I have yet to see anyone smoking illegally get a ticket...it's like a bs rule.


Yup - all smokers are dbags, and all non-smokers are cool, stand up, model citizens who have complete respect for society and all the rules that go along with it.
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#407 Wetcoaster

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:35 AM

Which was pretty much the exact same situation for me to begin with, but as you can tell, these d-bags will make every and any excuse to justify their inconsideration...does anyone even enforce these rules? You're quicker to get a ticket for not wearing a seat belt...I have yet to see anyone smoking illegally get a ticket...it's like a bs rule.

You need to contact a tobacco enforcement officer via your local health authority if it is a violation of provincial law or your municipal by-law enforcement officer if an extended municipal ban/regulation.

They can compel the business owner to enforce the law.
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Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#408 Wetcoaster

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:49 AM

Yup - all smokers are dbags, and all non-smokers are cool, stand up, model citizens who have complete respect for society and all the rules that go along with it.

I am unsure what the relevance is of that observation. If smokers are breaking the law, it matters not what the moral character of others may be.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#409 J.R.

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:07 PM

I am unsure what the relevance is of that observation. If smokers are breaking the law, it matters not what the moral character of others may be.


They obviously feel it necessary to defend their "own" by cutting down others (completely unrelated) rather than comment on the obvious fact that those people were breaking the law and being d-bags.
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#410 Tearloch7

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:56 PM

They obviously feel it necessary to defend their "own" by cutting down others (completely unrelated) rather than comment on the obvious fact that those people were breaking the law and being d-bags.


As an aside, congratulations on the twins JR .. wee Sagittarians? .. perfect!!! .. :frantic:

Edit: The emote is to prepare you for when they hit 2 ..

Edited by Tearloch7, 08 January 2013 - 12:57 PM.

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#411 nux4lyfe

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:33 PM

Yup - all smokers are dbags, and all non-smokers are cool, stand up, model citizens who have complete respect for society and all the rules that go along with it.


I wasn't talking about all smokers, just the inconsiderate ones.
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#412 Lockout Casualty

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:44 PM

I wasn't talking about all smokers, just the inconsiderate ones.


So you started a thread titled "Smokers..."?
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#413 Wetcoaster

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:20 PM

The BC government is being pushed for a broader smoking ban to cover more outdoor areas.


The Canadian Cancer Society is calling on the B.C. government to ban smoking on all outdoor patios of bars and restaurants as well as in all parks and playgrounds across the province.


Smoking on eatery and bar patios has already been banned in many municipalities in B.C. as well as in all of Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Labrador, Alberta and Yukon.


And an economic argument against it doesn't wash, says Kathryn Seely, with the B.C. branch of the society.


“It's been established by numerous studies and as well the four provinces that have prohibited smoking on patios, and the 30 B.C. municipalities that have also done so, that prohibiting smoking on patios does not harm business. There is no economic loss argument,” Seely told CBC News.


The society’s call for the ban comes at the start of National Non-Smoking Week in Canada.


Seely said even though B.C. has the lowest smoking rate in Canada, 6,000 British Columbians still die every year from tobacco-linked illnesses, including cancer.


Smoking is already banned in Metro Vancouver parks and it’s also prohibited in Vancouver playgrounds, beaches, parking lots and golf courses.


The Union of B.C. Municipalities passed a resolution last year calling for a similar, sweeping province-wide ban on smoking outdoors and Seely hopes this becomes a provincial election issue.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/01/20/bc-call-for-smoking-ban.html
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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#414 J.R.

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 10:46 AM

I love going in for my cancer checkups and having to walk through a cloud of cigarette smoke from people standing DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF the no smoking on hospital grounds sign. You guys are awesome...and I'm sure the people battling say lung cancer really appreciate that.
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#415 ThaBestPlaceOnEarth

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 03:52 PM

I am a non-smoker, never have smoked except a couple cigars a year sometimes. But I feel like the anti-smoking, and the bans, and the laws are out of control. I never had a problem with smoking in restaurants or anything like that, it doesn't bother me in the least. If people were allowed to smoke in more places, you wouldn't have them clustered around doors like they do now. I understand why they had to stop people smoking in establishments and indoors in places of business, it's a liability issue. But there's something of the law of unintended consequences going on with all these bans and restrictions. I mean, parks are a place where it seems to me is probably the best place to allow people to smoke. The fresh air, open spaces and all allows it to dissipate. But I guess people disagree.

It seems strange to me that people in vancouver have no problem with people smoking weed all over the place or junkies shooting up in plain view, but people who smoke cigarettes are the devil himself. Maybe smokers should all go smoke together in front of the art gallery.
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#416 wizeman

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 04:22 PM

I do not get your point at all.

Drinking alcohol only affects the drinker, not persons around them.

Quite different in effect.

Out of the 37 thousand posts you have written, I can assure you this is probably on the top of the list of the post you would like to have back.

You used to be an RCMP officer apparently ?
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#417 Aleksandr Pistoletov

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 04:41 PM

Out of the 37 thousand posts you have written, I can assure you this is probably on the top of the list of the post you would like to have back.

You used to be an RCMP officer apparently ?

Yes, drunk driving kills tens of thousands of people each year, so it most definitely does not affect only the driver..

Edited by zaibatsu, 21 January 2013 - 04:58 PM.

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#418 J.R.

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 04:57 PM

Not to speak for Wet but I believe what he meant was the actual act of drinking liquor does not affect people around you. He was not referring to the sometimes questionable/dangerous actions of PEOPLE after drinking.

The actual act of smoking causes serious health risks to innocent bystanders. Me sipping a beer does not.

It seemed pretty obvious to me...then again I have a lot less practice at being willfully obtuse.

Edited by J.R., 21 January 2013 - 04:59 PM.

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#419 Aleksandr Pistoletov

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 05:00 PM

Not to speak for Wet but I believe what he meant was the actual act of drinking liquor does not affect people around you. He was not referring to the sometimes questionable/dangerous actions of PEOPLE after drinking.

The actual act of smoking causes serious health risks to innocent bystanders. Me sipping a beer does not.

The act of smoking doesn't inherently harm anyone else, much like drinking and driving, anoter person has to be around for it to be dangerous to others. The negligence of smokers smoking around other people is no different than the negligence of people who drink and get behind the wheel. Dangerous is dangerous.. so that was a dumb absolutist statement he made saying it only affects the driver.

Edited by zaibatsu, 21 January 2013 - 05:02 PM.

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#420 J.R.

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 05:05 PM

Who said drinking and driving only affects the driver....? Neither Wet or myself ever mentioned drivers. Drunk or otherwise.

Of course the statement is predicated by their being other people around.... :blink:

Again, try not being so willfully obtuse and maybe it will come a little easier.
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