goal-ghost Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 The Stojanov comparisons are getting a bit old. They bear few similarities to last deadline's deal excepting that they are both big bodied players and involve the Canucks. Stojanov was traded after missing his first supposed professional season due to a shoulder injury. He followed that up with two more unproductive professional seasons (30 points in 73 AHL games and 1 point in 58 NHL games) before being shipped out. Kassian is no Neely but he has certainly outperformed Stojanov at every level. Stojanov had yet to play is first NHL game at Kassian's age. Just because Hodgson is performing well does not mean Kassian is a total plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ride the red Pony Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 The exact numbers at this stage aren't really relevant, two players will never be able to be compared exactly, but the parallels are striking. The point is simply that the GM sacrificed hockey IQ, playmaking and leadership ability (intangibles) for impressive physical attributes (and the qualities that stem therefrom, lest we get beyond semantics). That is simply not a recipe for success now, just as it wasn't for the Penguins with Stojanov. Hodgson should have joined Kesler on the second line by now, a lot of teams function very well with multiple centers on the same line (Carter and Richards are both natural centers, for instance, and that worked out ok for LA last year), and Kesler and Booth desperately need to be with a playmaker. People act like Kassian is trending upwards, I'd suggest a decent run early in the season simply happened as a result of him getting game minutes in the AHL while the rest of the team had to play into game shape in the absence of training camp, now that the rest of the league is playing he can't keep up. I admit I have a bit of a bias against Kassian owing to his history as a dirty player (eg: Matt Kennedy and Jesse Blacker hits in junior), whereas I was (and am) an unabashed Hodgson fan. However, the events of this season haven't exactly proven me wrong on this either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrogBurr24 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Thinking talent still wins over size and toughness? Did we add the wrong type players and lost our identity of 4 running lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretzky's Mullet Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 That is my point, there are no parallels between Stojanov and Kass. except perhaps their size, as I stated before 10 games in and Kass has proven that. I will however at this point in the conversation agree with you on the points you have made about Hockey IQ and playmaking ability. But again, I would like to give that more time to evolve as Kass hasn't had the time at this level that Coho has to develop his game. In my mind I believe that CoHo's leadership abilities in junior was one of the main reasons the Nucks drafted him where they did. With that being said,I think one of the reasons they made him available was his lack thereof, as per the claims that were made in regards to his playing time, I believe he put himself before the team which many(myself included) would portray a complete lack of leadership. As far as the multiple centers playing on one line scenario, I guess that is something we will never know, and one example is far from a "shoe in" that it will work. It is way too early in Kass's career to show any trending, up,down, sideways, or otherwise, it is just too small a sample size to give any kind of a grade on his gameplay at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANGO Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Until we have a skilled tough forward to play with the Sedins, that line will be checked out of the play-offs every year. We need Kassian's size and passion on the top line. If Hank and Dan can bounce 34 goals of Anson Carter, then any player who can crash and bang at the front of the net will be successfully, if you give them some time to figure it out. We need to learn to win 5 on 5 and rely less on our potent??? but very spotty PP. The league is not going to let us win it all on the PP. We've all seen this go horribly wrong in the play-offs already. As far as the rest of the lines go. we need to spread the scoring out a bit and roll four lines. Putting all the talent on the top too lines and what toughness we have on the bottom two lines is to easy for other teams to defend against. This has always annoyed me:-) Improper use of toughness. Two talent guys and a toughness guy on each line thank you. Kesler, I love his passion, but he is trying to win the game singlehandedly, he in hindsight is not really a team player, he doesn't use his line mates well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobopan Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I really don't see this team as being that tougher than years past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksSayEh Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 What we need, is skilled depth. Depth capable of scoring. We never really had an issue with "toughness", at least not roster wise. Guys just need to start policing themselves. With better depth, we can afford injuries easier, something more likely to happen to a relatively smallish team. We never had an issue with physicality, we drastically outhit every opponent in our 11 run. Losing Torres hurts, that dude was a nuke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
personaltrainer604 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Thats the problem..CoHo was behind Kes and shouldn't have been especially when Kes was playing injured. If Kes was playing injured, why not play him limited minutes on the third instead of putting him more at risk on the second? CoHo was doing just fine, it all would've worked out! I stand corrected, partly anyway, and I should have clarified that by seperating the 2, a TANGIBLE that Kass brings and CoHo will never possess is size, INTANGIBLES he brings are strength and toughness. And to speak to your 2nd point you obviously didn't click on the link I sent in the second post, Kassian had eclipsed Stojanov's CAREER points in the first 10 games of the season, so you are comparing apples to oranges. Has Kassian displayed a poor attitude? Listen, I agree that Coho is a nice talent, unfortunately with Hank and Kes ahead of him on the depth chart he just wasn't going to get the playing time he felt he deserved, to hold Kassian accountable for that is absurd. And to turn him into Stojanov to inflate the value of Coho is ridiculous. You speak as though you have been personally wronged through the Kassian/CoHo trade, I believe even if Kassian turned out to be a 50 goal scorer you would hang another negative TAG on him, give him a year or two and then let's revisit this conversation. The kid is 22 yrs. old and you speak about him like he is a seasoned vet that has let you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
personaltrainer604 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Thats the problem..CoHo was behind Kes and shouldn't have been especially when Kes was playing injured. If Kes was playing injured, why not play him limited minutes on the third instead of putting him more at risk on the second? CoHo was doing just fine, it all would've worked out! I stand corrected, partly anyway, and I should have clarified that by seperating the 2, a TANGIBLE that Kass brings and CoHo will never possess is size, INTANGIBLES he brings are strength and toughness. And to speak to your 2nd point you obviously didn't click on the link I sent in the second post, Kassian had eclipsed Stojanov's CAREER points in the first 10 games of the season, so you are comparing apples to oranges. Has Kassian displayed a poor attitude? Listen, I agree that Coho is a nice talent, unfortunately with Hank and Kes ahead of him on the depth chart he just wasn't going to get the playing time he felt he deserved, to hold Kassian accountable for that is absurd. And to turn him into Stojanov to inflate the value of Coho is ridiculous. You speak as though you have been personally wronged through the Kassian/CoHo trade, I believe even if Kassian turned out to be a 50 goal scorer you would hang another negative TAG on him, give him a year or two and then let's revisit this conversation. The kid is 22 yrs. old and you speak about him like he is a seasoned vet that has let you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBCanucks Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Our issue this year is that we had quite a few holes in our lineup entering the season that have yet to be filled. The loss of Kesler, Malhotra and Bieksa to injury has only further showcased how glaring these holes have become. More so, we have an abundance of top-9 skilled forwards while still lacking grit in our bottom-6. As a team we lack individual line identity. Roles are undefined, scued and largely unclear in our middle-6. In terms of toughness, Sestito is a poor substitute for Volpatti and is essentially a pylon. In terms of our forward group our most glaring holes are at centre. Kesler's injury has left a fairly obvious hole in our lineup but we desperately need a 3rd line shutdown C to establish a consistent defensive shutdown identity to our 3rd line. In terms of our D, Edler has struggled but our biggest hole is the loss of Salo. We acquired Garrison to play with Edler and be a second point man on the PP, if he cannot fulfil this role he needs to go, plain and simple. Our player needs: - 3rd line shutdown defensive C - 2nd pairing Right sided defenceman to play with Edler. Garrison either fills this role and stays or doesn't and gets moved. Simple as that. - 4th line LW - unload Ballard's contract - unload at least one of our "2nd line" contracts. Despite Booth's lack of scoring he has played really well. Unfortunately so has Higgins, Hansen, and Raymond. The two odd-men out right now seem to be Booth and Kassian. My inclination is to send Kassian back down to the Wolves once Kesler returns. We have better top-9 options than him right now. However, is Booth doesn't start producing his contract is top contender to be unloaded through a trade or buyout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Well, small and talented is not without its merits. This being said, how big are Edmonton's top-6? Where is Edmonton in the standings this year, or even for the last few years? Yes, there are other factors other tan team size, but it is something which has to be considered. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Thats the problem..CoHo was behind Kes and shouldn't have been especially when Kes was playing injured. If Kes was playing injured, why not play him limited minutes on the third instead of putting him more at risk on the second? CoHo was doing just fine, it all would've worked out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noheart Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 How bout a little bit of jannik Hansen all over the place, you know what will happen Black hawk down and some duck duck goose my brothas and sistas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I don't know if we're tougher. We're not as talented right now that's for sure. Then vs. Now Samuelsson > Booth Erhoff > Garrison Salo > Ballard Hodgson > Shroeder Torres > Kassian also Kesler > Kesler right now Lapierre > Lapierre right now H Sedin > H Sedin right now D Sedin > D Sedin right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understand Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Ask the Boston Bruins and the LA Kings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I don't know if we're tougher. We're not as talented right now that's for sure. Then vs. Now Samuelsson > Booth Erhoff > Garrison Salo > Ballard Hodgson > Shroeder Torres > Kassian also Kesler > Kesler right now Lapierre > Lapierre right now H Sedin > H Sedin right now D Sedin > D Sedin right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Ask the Boston Bruins and the LA Kings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksSayEh Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigbond Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 It is not oversold, and here is why. In the finals, the ref's don't want to decide the game, and put away the whistle. This has been happening for years with complaints of ref consistency from many teams. When it's skill vs size in the finals and penalties aren't called for all the banging and cheap shots, the size wins after wearing down the skill team. For this reason, we need to keep the size. Size not as applicable to regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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