R.Dahlin26
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Posts posted by R.Dahlin26
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1 minute ago, The Great Canucks said:
Except he isn't wrong. You keep whining about Juolevi because he isn't meeting your specific narrow-minded expectations. Then you act all upset when other users rightly call you out on it.
Seems like you're the one upset.
You have brought nothing to the discussion and have whined repeatedly about big bad negativity!
Grow up.
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3 minutes ago, Iggynucks said:
I've never seen a team's "fan base" so willingly sh!t all over their prospects who aren't producing the desired results. It's embarrassing. If it's for a lack of effort or a poor attitude then I can understand the hate but to relentlessly tear down players simply because people feel the need to criticize others anonymously says more about the commenters than the young men trying to fulfill their dreams. Even the best drafting teams miss out on players every year but their fans don't constantly tear their prospects to shreds hoping to validate their own opinions.
The hyperbole is strong in this one
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11 minutes ago, The Lock said:
Personally, I prefer to play the "wait and see" sort of approach. It's great that Sergachev has points and it's easy to look at him and compare him to Juolevi; however, is that really fair to compare in that regard or would it be better to wait and see what Juolevi actually ends up like int he long term?
The here and now has the potential to mean very little when it comes to the future of these players. I'm not saying what's happening now won't affect things at all. It will. However, to get wrapped up in the here and now too much can make it easy to distort an opinion and allow emotions to replace logic.
This seems to happen a lot on these boards (and I've been guilty from time to time too). We need to allow Juolevi time to develop. Although we also shouldn't be jumping to conclusions on Sergachev getting benched either. lol
This is a solid response. Thank you for not screaming Troll! or some other childish things.
Some like the wait and see approach but I like to observe prospects development pretty closing and like to discuss about it frequently, I mean that's why we have these boards right? lol
Yes I have no doubt Juolevi will be a good player for us going forward, but it's okay to ask questions and express your thoughts especially about this recent benching because that's all we have to talk about him right now lol
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2 minutes ago, Odd. said:
He is though.
Unless you expect a rookie defenseman in the Finnish league putting up PPG numbers as a defensemanCause that's never happened before. 17pts in 26gp. That's still
pretty good. Yes he's been healthy scratched, we dont know why exactly. But TPS lost both games with him out of the line-up.
Heiskanen yes is a year younger with 1 more point and plays roughly 5 more minutes and has played in 3 less games than Juolevi. Ask yourself, is he SIGNIFICANTLY outplaying Juolevi? One is in his D+1 season, the other is in his D+2.
FYI, I'm fine with comparing players as I feel like it's a good way to measure success.
Not really IMO. Heiskanen is someone who is dominating. He skates all over the rink. Is a fantastic offensively and defensively. Juolevi is having a good year as well but not dominating if he was he would be on the Olympic squad. Juolevi still needs to improve defensively, his first couple steps, and overall intensity shift to shift IMO.
TPS went 1-1 with him out of the line-up. Today was the loss, so will be interesting if he is back in the lineup on Thursday.
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14 minutes ago, Darius71 said:
Huge setback for Sergachev - he has been scratched 2 times recently, and is a minus 6 in hi last 8 games. Big red flag. Hugely disappointing. I dont know if he can improve, maybe the start of the season was an aberration. If he is not lighting it up by again by video game level d+3 im gonna throw out my xbox and cancel my netflix
Wait Sergachev plays in the Finnish league?
Oh, wait he already has 27 points in the NHL and will likely put 35+ points in his rookie season.
Would anyone care if Juolevi was in the NHL right now putting up good point totals who is making huge strides in becoming a future offensive top pairing d-man and being a healthy scratch? I would think no would really care because he's already looked elite in his rookie season and looks to have massive upside.
Whereas Juolevi is being healthy scratched in the Liiga when he should be dominating that league and being a key player for TPS.
For instance today, Heiskanen played 24:46 in his game and lead all players in ice time and had an assist.
That's what I expect out of Juolevi.
So do you see how it can be disappointing for some?
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Just now, Warhippy said:
OK, using rumours about attitude issues or fitness is making baseless claims is in fact wasting peoples time, continuing to push that narrative is in fact trolling.
Juolevi and the rest of the captaincy of last years team pushing for a coaching change is not an attitude or locker room issue, it is pure leadership driven by a desire to win and expectation that their coaching staff will be better
A reported conditioning issue would be a player not being fit enough to play. A coach stating his fitness is fine but he'd like to see more is not a conditioning issue. There's a huge amount of rookies and actual pros that come to camp out of shape. It didn't mean he wasn't fit enough or conditioned
When you tug at a thread and call it a rope you're creating a false narrative that people with an agenda eat up. Look at Dreger, Patterson, Botchford.
Anyways, again you've your say I've mine. You're worrying about a 19 year old child playing in a mens league having a great season I'm not.
I've occupied far to much of my day on this already. Have a good night
Like I said it was rumours about what happened at the 2017 WJC, not facts. Can you provide a source on what you're saying about him pushing for a coaching change?
"A coach stating his fitness is fine"
What he clearly says in that quote that I provided which is a legit source is that if he one day want's to be an NHL'er his fitness needs to be better. Combined with how he looked in training camp he clearly looked like a step behind. You don't see other top 5 picks being talked about their fitness, do you?
Like Travis Green said his testing and fitness should be at an elite level.
Stop making things up. I'm disappointed in him being a healthy scratch for two consecutive games now. Rick Dhaliwal reported TPS was struggling and wanted to change things up so their decision was taking Juolevi out of the line-up that to me is worrisome. It might not for you but it is to me. Don't like it too bad.
Move on.
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39 minutes ago, aGENT said:
In that case, we may spread the wealth. Most teams don't get the luxury of having 3 legit 1st line players on their 1st line. Especially when ELC's expire and cap hits become factors. They also tend to spread scoring to be harder to defend against. It's usually 2 1st line guys and a complimentary guy who'd normally be a 2nd or 3rd liner.
Yea something like this would be sexy would have two deadly lines
Dahlen-Pettersson-Boeser
Zadina-Horvat-Lind
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28 minutes ago, mll said:
Babcock is often asked why Hyman with Matthews. He says because he gets him the puck and good players want the puck. He says Datsyuk always told him to put him with a guy that will get him the puck and not a 3rd guy who wants the puck too.
With those three on a line, the puck will be in the back of the net so fast there will be no need for a puck retriever.
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Just now, Warhippy said:
Is that like....claiming he's an issue in the locker room or is somehow not fit or conditioned?
Did I not give a direct quote of Green saying he was not at a top fitness level? Did he not look slow in training camp? I actually gave you a legit source unlike Rob_Zepp who completely made up a quote and wasted everyone's time blatantly trolling.
Yes, there are rumours, keyword rumour of an attitude issue. 2017 WJC coaching issue with him being stripped of a letter. Take that as you may. Have not stated that as a fact.
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16 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said:
No kidding. One poster, with assists from a buddy or two, is blatantly trolling the Canucks fans. Claiming that a 19 year old Dman who is doing extremely well playing against men in a good league is a big disappointment. Who, if he isn't an NHL regular at 20, will be a bust. Time for all the Canucks fans to stop responding to his crap and put him on ignore.
Why are you making things up?
He's been a healthy scratch for 2 games in a row now, that to me is disappointing. If he isn't making strides in the NHL by his D+3 year that is IMO very disappointing considering what we see the players we passed on doing in the NHL.
That is not trolling.
Making up quotes and wasting peoples time like the poster Rob_Zepp did is trolling
I've expressed my thoughts and if you don't like them too bad. These are my opinions and so far we have had a good honest discussion. Don't sink down to the level of these posters who scream TROLL! when everything isn't sunshine and lollipops.
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7 minutes ago, Camel Toe Drag said:
They can both pass if they need to as well which makes them both double edged swords. It honestly won't matter who the third person on that line is.
Imagine that third person being Zadina.
Three killers on the same line. RIP.
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2 minutes ago, flickyoursedin said:
Our defence is awful! Juolevi this year is a top 6 dman in our organization. Right now he’s playing against men and looking very good. He will earn it next year. While I agree with a top 5 pick you’d wish for a more offensively gifted player and Juolevi is not that. But he’s not Tanev either. He does have a decent offensive side to his game he’s not gonna put up 60-70 points but it’s not unrealistic to think he hits 35-40 points while playing the toughest 25+ minutes a game. He plays mistake free hockey and he has a great outlet pass. I wanted Tkachuk but it’s time to stop crying about something you can’t change. Juolevi is a damn good hockey player and he’s gonna have a long career who cares he took 1 year longer to arrive then Sergachev.
Exactly, the Canucks defence is really honestly putrid. Juolevi, if he is legit, should easily make this team and start making strides turning into a top 4 d-man as soon as next year. You could shelter him by paring him up with Tanev and play him on the PP. I'm sure he'll put up points passing to Boeser and the Sedins.
And if Juolevi turns into a top pairing d-man I'll forget all about Tkachuk, but he has to make that step into NHL and the sooner the better.
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1 minute ago, flickyoursedin said:
No don’t wait but you gotta realize that point production is gonna be lower right now in Vancouver than it is on almost any other team. Vancouver is bottom 3 in the league with 2.6 goals per game. Tampa and Boston are top 3 in the league with 3.3 and 3.5 goals per game. That’s what’s making Boeser’s season even more special than it is because he’s doing it on a garbage team. Boeser at 20 is leading his team and by far the best player Vancouver has. Where guys like Barzal and Sergachev while impressive have better players on their teams to play with. Juolevi will be on the team next year. His weight has been what’s kept him out since his draft year guys like Sergachev and Chychrun are physical specimens and both weighed almost 200lbs at the draft. Everybody knew at the draft they’d beat Juolevi to the show but in terms of potential play I wouldn’t say either of those guys are far superior at the moment.
I like your optimism. I too feel he should be on the team next year, but he has to earn it with a good showing at training camp.
Seems like I have a higher expectation out of top 5 draft choices compared to some who have expectations of a mid-round draft choice for Juolevi.
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2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:
Wrong.
He won't be playing with studs in sheltered areas or Norris calibre players like Hedman Giordano or Chara.
Give him a world class perennial true #1 d man to pair with or a top 10 offensive team and it sure changes things.
Bringing a top prospect on to a team like Tampa Boston or an upcoming Calgary is very different than bringing them in to an Arizona or a Vancouver
See Kellers production post November
So we should wait until we're a powerhouse like Tampa or an up and coming team like Calgary? Chara is Norris calibre in 2018?
How is Boeser doing so well on such a horrific team!
If Juolevi is legit he'll succeed regardless of his surroundings just like Keller/Chychrun in Arizona. Why Can't Juolevi be playing with a defensive stud like Tanev?
Stop making excuses for a top 5 draft choice.
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Just now, ilduce39 said:
Are you trying to say that if a top pick doesn’t pan out immediately (as a 19 year old apparently) he must be a bust?
That just doesn’t make sense. Doubly so given everything we know about Juolevi.
Agree to disagree I guess.
I'm saying if a top 5 draft choice isn't at least in the NHL by their D+3 they tend to not turn out as you had hoped and end up being disappointments.
Juolevi should be making the team next year and making strides into being a legitimate top 4 d-man.
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4 minutes ago, ohmy said:
Thomas Chabot, Darnell Nurse, Josh Morrisey, Ryan Pulock, Shea Theodore, Matt Dumba, Michael Matheson, and Brady Skjei. All 1st round picks who took until at least there D+3 season to become an NHL regular. All are playing well and trending upwards. Ill be more than happy to follow that trajectory. And I already know your argument that none were top 5 picks however that is ireelevant as players are ready when there ready. I dont care if it takes an extra year or two if it gives us a great player for ten years.
Why didn't we trade down to the teens where the majority of those defensemen were drafted and used a pick on a defenceman there? Why did we have to use a top 5 draft choice on a potential second pairing d-man?
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6 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:
Don’t you see how silly that sounds, though? Setting some obscure goal posts: top 10, D+3 and then saying “tend to not usually work out.”
To add to Darius: Matthias Ekholm is another who took awhile to crack the NHL. Who cares if he was drafted in a later round? Your argument is that players that don’t play in the NHL by their D+3 year can’t go on to be highly effective.
The silly labels like draft position and draft+ years mean nothing at the end of the day without context as to their individual development. It’s lazy thinking.
Juolevi is 19 until May.
First year in a men’s league overseas, switching to the bigger ice surface.
Gained 20 pound this offseason.
Putting up historically good numbers for a rookie.
Named a top player for his team in the U20 worlds.
Was always considered a long-term prospect as he grows into his body.
He’s a memorial cup and world junior champion.
...but I’m supposed to be worried because he might start next year in Utica? I almost hope he does. He’ll be 20 for the whole year - that’s still super young.
There’s no real reasons to worry if you put down the obscure labels and look at the actual player involved.
Why are you comparing defenceman drafted in late rounds who are expected to have 3-5 years of development to a defenceman drafted in the top 5 who should have minimal flaws to his game and be extremely close to being an impact NHL'er.
The mistake you're making is having the patience and expectations of a mid-round draft pick of a top 5 draft pick.
To each their own.
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1 minute ago, Darius71 said:
Have you seen how many top 10 drafted d men have failed to meet any expectation? there is one on our roster right now in Pouliot. Draft position does not guarantee anything.
My issue with your argument is not whether Juolevi is gonna be a bust or not . Im not even arguing that he was the best pick at 5.
My issue are your timelines. It is absurd to look down on the kid (exactly what you are doing here) because he is not having an impact in the NHL right away. The guy is 19. I wont even be worried if he plays in Utica next year at 20.
Again, your issue is that you want to be gratified right now because Tkachuk (absurd to compare him to a winger btw) and Sergachev are lighting it up.
And is there something wrong with wanting an impact player with a top 5 draft pick? Is there something wrong with wanting Juoelvi to be lighting it up for us? To do what Tkachuk is doing for Calgary? To do what Sergachev and McAvoy are doing for TB and BOS?
Especially having to sit through that miserable 2015-2016 season only to make a questionable pick with the 5th overall pick, a pick that has continued to be highly questionable.
Again if Juolevi isn't in the NHL next year making strides into becoming an impact defenceman than that should be worrying, just look at all the d-men drafted in the top 10 who are still figuring it out in their D+3 year, they tend to not work out. Case in point you Pouliot example.
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8 minutes ago, Darius71 said:
D men usually do take longer to develop - even those drafted in the first round. The issue here is you have to manage your need for immediate gratification just because Tkachuk (who is a winger btw and wingers historically can be thrown into the mix alot faster) and Sergachev are lighting it up.
Off the top of my head here are 2 excellent D men that would have been written off by your standards
Muzzin... did not really play in NHL till D+5 (lots of AHL time)
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=89797
Klingberg.... did not really play in NHL til D+4 (bounced around the SEL, SWEHL and AHL)
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=127778
Seriously? Both Muzzin and Klingberg where 5th round draft picks. Odds were that they both were not going to make it just because of the round they were picked in. They both have developed into excellent d-men but who expected it?
Juolevi is a fifth overall pick who is expected to be a difference maker and when you're picking in the top 5 they should be impact players very soon if not right away. They don't take 3-5 years and if they do they usually don't work out.
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Just now, ilduce39 said:
So? At this point of his D-2 year Brock didn’t have a sniff of the NHL. Didn’t mean squat for his rookie campaign.
If he’s in Utica next year... nothing like proposing a hypothetical negative situation to make your point. “What about” if he cracks the Canucks, plays top pairing with Tanev and puts up 35+ points? It’s a silly game.
Youre trying to make the point that because other players broke in earlier to the NHL that it means we should worry about Juolevi’s progression. His fantastic Liiga season (switching ice surfaces) and quality U20 tourney belie those fears. He’s developing nicely.
McAvoy is 6’0 210, 20 years old and trained in College against older players with more time for weight training. Sergachev is a beast. Chychrun is a beast.
The Canucks made a mistake rushing Jake and McCann - JB isn’t one to repeat his mistakes. Olli will cook until he’s ready and up until now I haven’t seen any reason to worry.
2Then he should have no problem making this team next year and being an impact player just like Tkachuk, McAvoy, Segachev, and Keller if he's developing so nicely.
We'll see how he looks like in Training camp. Check out all the d-men drafted in the top 10 who have not made the NHL by there D+3 they tend to not usually work out.
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8 minutes ago, aGENT said:
I think he sees something similar to Stecher's first year.
Likely shows well in camp, goes to Utica to prove he can keep it up while waiting for injury to open up a spot (or a trade). Worst case scenario, he only gets a few injury fill-in games until one or both of Edler/MDZ are moved at the TDL.
Again I can't see it. Stecher was a FA signing out of college.
Juolevi is a 5th overall pick and a questionable one, there will be a lot of allure and buzz around him so if he is NHL ready, he'll make the team IMO.
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3 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:
Right. If only Boeser was playing in the NHL during his D+2 season he might be able to keep up with others in his draft class.
All of that stuff is just fluff. Olli is playing overseas because he was drafted as a 6’3 beanpole and he’s still growing into his body. He put on muscle this offseason and looked slow in camp. Looked pretty quick again at the Jrs. Trying to chart his ceiling based on draft years and stats while ignoring all other context is just plain ridiculous.
Boeser was the 23rd overall pick who had a historic D+1 year. As evidence of his 4 goals in 9 games at the end of his D+2 year, I'm sure if he played the whole year in the NHL he would have had a successful rookie campaign. Boeser elected to stay for another year by his own wishes.
Juolevi is the Fifth overall pick who has had a rocky past year of development. Olli is playing overseas because he had a bad showing at training camp and was clearly not at a top fitness level.
If he's in Utica next year. Is it going to be because he's a beanpole? D-men take longer to develop? Or something else?
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11 minutes ago, Darius71 said:
The way I see it is Boeser killed it last year and in training camp and he still did not get a start. Imagine if he had a slow start the first 10 games he probably would have been sent down.
Even if he killed it I would not keep an impressionable 19 year old d man here unless he was a phenom (imagine how his confidnce would take a beating with this team right now) - we all know D men take longer to develop, there are countless examples of this in NHL history.
I think there is a reason they signed MDZ and brought in other Dmen - it gives a chance for the prospects to develop at their own pace. Other people see these moves as JB trying to compete for a playoffspot/cup but to me these guys are fillers on short term contracts that can be flipped if they actually perform ok....only there to give the Oj's, chatfields, Brassards time to grow properly..even if that means getting bit$h slapped and benched in their developmental leagues.
If he's ready he's ready. Holding back a player can hurt their development as well.
If Juolevi's play earns him a spot he'll be on the team. I can't see them sending him to Utica unless he has a bad showing TBH.
But we'll see, it'll be interesting on how Juolevi looks after a year playing against men.
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His ability to anticipate plays is fantastic. Absolute laser beam to the top corner on that shot.
Olli Juolevi | #48 | D
in Alumni
Posted
What? Am I not allowed to have my own expectations about certain prospects?
Are you happy he has been a healthy scratch for 2 straight games now?