[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

6 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Why wouldn’t I want to talk about those other players?  I don’t mind acknowledging they’ve beaten Olli to the NHL.  Doesn’t mean they will have the better careers.  You’re assuming linear improvement year to year - that’s not how it works.  Juolevi could still be as good as any of those names listed - it’s no surprise he’s taken his time growing into his body.  That was always the deal. 

 

Comparing him to Heiskanen is fine - but you’re obviously doing it just to crap on Olli - which is an obnoxious thing to do given the forum you’re in.  It’s not even productive - it’s just a random Debbie downer comment.  “Olli is doing great” “yeah but Heiskanen plays more minutes and was drafted a year later.”  So?  Go bop about that to a Stars fan - Heiskanen’s early success doesn’t affect Juolevi in any way. Hippy makes a great point about them being 10 months apart - it’s also their first years in Liiga - they’re both rookies.  Pretty much an even field, draft years be damned.

 

On on the contrary, Juolevi growing up in London (and playing that extra year there) shines through in the U20 numbers - not only is he much larger than Miro, he’s accustomed to the small ice surface.  Again, I’m not sure I do that’s deal 1-1.

1

 

Keyword is "could". He could but with everything we have to look at based on the last 2 years, it's very unlikely. Now if he was playing in the NHL in his D+2 and making massive strides and keeping up with those players I mentioned then for sure.

 

But right now he is a good but not great Liiga defenceman while the players I mentioned are doing extremely well at the NHL level and are likely future stars.

 

Heiskanen is looking like a future top pairing d-man for the Stars so that is not a slight to Juolevi at all when comparing them.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

It isn't about how putrid the D core is

 

You don't know coach green very well if you do

 

There are only so many roster spots.  There is only so much ice time.  Coach Green will give you spots if you earn them.  But if there is only X amount of spots on the left which are already eaten up by pre-existing players on contracts by simple numbers OJ will be pushed out and it has little to do with his ability to play well or not.

 

The most likely scenario is a 60-40 NHL/AHL next year and that's fine

 

The fun part will be seeing what happens when both him and Miro are 3rd year NHL players and we revisit this.

 

Because for all the comparisons, we've seen OJ be successful on NA ice.  By comparison, we've seen Heiskanen shy away from physical play entirely and have yet to see him play in North America

 

Again, it all comes down to a lack of aptience for a true rebuild within this fan base.  

If he earns a spot they will make room for him.

 

If he's in Utica that means he didn't have a good showing just like his previous training camp.

 

Don't you think if he killed it at training camp in September he would be on the team right now? That they would have made room for him?

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

7 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Typical of self-loathing Canucks fans to hold up a player we never had a chance at in Heiskanen to throw a wet blanket on the great progress Juolevi has shown this year. 

 

Would they do a 1-1 trade Olli for Miro?  I’d think long and hard on that, given that Juolevi should top out at a mobile  6’3 215.

Okay, want to talk about Sergachev, McAvoy, Tkachuk, or Keller?

 

Didn't think so.

 

The only reason Miro is brought up is that he is playing in the same league as Juolevi and both are u20 d-men. Both their respective organizations expect them to be top pairing d-men. Both were top 5 picks. See how some would like to compare them?

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I am still unsure as to why we're comparing Miro to OJ.

 

It is obvious to see people are wanting instant gratification and the lack of patience during a rebuild is not there.

 

OJ will be in North America next year in Utica or on the big club.  Once here his every move will continue to be dissected.  If in Utica  it will be why he isn't putting up more points, why is he not on the 1st pairing etc.

 

If in Vancouver, why is on this line, no PP time, 2nd unit and more.

 

We're in technical year 2 of a rebuild, possibly the most thorough rebuild in club history if it goes the full distance of 4-5 years.  Of course w're not going to be good on the ice.

 

But the worry about everything needs to stop.  In hindsight, McAvoy would have been the better D choice, maybe OJ looks different if still in London or in Vancouver.  

 

But worrying about it is non productive.

 

As of right now, OJ is still having a great rookie year in his league.  He will be a good player here too.  Anything in between is just conjecture and not really worth worrying over.

If Juolevi cannot crack the Canucks d-core by his D+3 year, especially a d-core as putrid as the Canucks, it will be very disappointing for many.

 

And of course, his play is going to be dissected. This isn't a 4th round pick, this is a fifth overall pick and a highly questionable one with the players they passed on.

 

So if he is in fact in Utica there would be a reason for that as he would not be NHL ready and you'll see posters continue to ask questions.

 

 

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

At no point am I discounting what Miro is doing or has done.  He's an amazing player thus far

 

I am saying YOU are discounting what OJ is doing or has done.

 

Miro Heiskanen plays more minutes.  Has more PP time.  More O-zone starts.  Plays with a better partner than OJ in his second full year in a mens club and was scratched in his rookie year

 

OJ plays less minutes, has more D-zone starts, less PP time 2nd pairing  or 3-4 defensive unit with different D pairings in his rookie season on a mens club and isn't entirely sheltered.  In fact much like your claims about his rumoured attitude I'd need to see some actual literature claiming he's sheltered.  As for me, a defenseman being successful with less minute yet more D zone starts vs a defenseman being successful with more minutes and more O-zone starts are two different beasts entirely and point to one being sheltered in ways the other isn't.

 

Hesiskanen being scratched in his rookie year and OJ being scratched in his rookie year with only 10 months age separating them is exactly the same thing.  It doesn't matter when they were drafted, like at all.  It's like Leafs fans discounting what Boeser is doing because he's 7 months older than Matthews.  We're not talking 3-5 years difference here it's barely 10 months in age

 

Heiskanen IS a solid player.  OJ IS a solid player.  Creating a narrative of concern or separation of vast difference between them by skewing the numbers is not something anyone should give any weight credence or attention too.  Which is what you are doing.

 

Until such time as you produce proof or evidence of OJ being sheltered vs Heiskanen and until you can produce or provide evidence that shows as per your claims that OJ is an player with an attitude and an issue in the locker room.  I will have to take anything you say on this particular tangent with a grain of salt

9

No, what you can't seem to cope with is that Juolevi is in his Draft + 2 season. This is very important to note. Heiskanen is 18 and in his draft+ 1 season. So yes Heiskanen is having the more impressive year. Juolevi is having a good year so far but it is to be expected from a top 5 pick in his D+2 year. It's seeing him being a healthy scratch that is disappointing you don't see other top prospects right now being healthy scratches, in fact, all of them are playing key roles for their teams. 

 

Heiskanen' rookie year was his Draft - 1 year when he was 17 years old. Juolevi is 19 and in his d+2 being a healthy scratch. Massive difference.

 

It has been rumoured multiple times that Juolevi lead an all players meeting that lead to the firing of the Coaching staff at the 2017 WJC. That's why it was weird seeing him go from Captain to no letter at all.

 

Again these are rumours so take them as you may.

 

And yes Juolevi has been sheltered. He plays 15-20 mins a night not having to face the top lines each night, unlike Heiskanen who is out there in every key situation. Juolevi does not play on top PP or top PK that is the very definition of someone who is being sheltered by the coaching staff. 

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

Just now, Darius71 said:

 

Not disagreeing with what you are saying.  But do we know his scratch is related to performance?  Maybe he walked into practice late wearing a track suit?  

I mean TPS must not see him performing well enough to stay in the line-up and be a regular if it's not injury related.

 

Hoping Rick Dhaliwal could get a word from Sami Salo about this situation.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

9 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

They're tied for points with only a 4 game difference.    That is with Heiskanen averaging 7 minutes and 42 seconds more ice time per game.  How is that not donimating?  There's also only a 10 month difference between them while Heiskanen played all of last year in that league.

 

Again, there's no true "dominating" difference between them.

 

As well, nowhere does it say anything about an attitude or locker room issues.  Green demands a very high fitness level, he has actually called out NHL regulars for their fitness levels; so demanding a shade more excellence from a 19 year old kid is not unusual at all and in no way says or shows that Juolevi is out of shape.  It's not at all like the Virtanen donut factor we saw last year 

 

His being scratched while cause for questioning is not concerning.  Hesikanen also was scratched last year in his rookie season.  So again, not unusual

 

http://liiga.fi/pelaajat/28843210/heiskanen-miro

http://liiga.fi/pelaajat/24479743/juolevi-olli#page

He plays more minutes and also still has mroe offensive zone starts vs Juolevi by the numbers.  If his production vs his games played is not comparable or better than OJs that would be cause for concern no?

No. Miro Heiskanen is a legitimately dominate player in that league right now. The way he commands play offensively and defensively while logging 25+ minutes as an 18-year-old is excellent. He plays on the top PP, top PK and has to face top lines each night. He has made the Olympic squad.

 

Remember while Juolevi's production is good he is in his D+2 year and is only playing 15-20 minutes a game on the second pairing being sheltered.

 

Heiskanen being a scratch at 17 years old does not justify Juolevi being a scratch at 19 in his Draft+2 year especially now that it's for consecutive games and we know it's not because of an injury.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

9 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I will need to see reports about this as I've heard none of this at all anywhere  in almost 350 pages of talk.  As a prospect coming from Hunters Knight's system there is little to no chance he was not conditioned enough to play.  As well by most accounts he is one of the most humble people on the ice which was well documented in his player profile during his draft year.

 

As for playing 24-25 minutes a night.  The current TOI leader in the NHL is drew doughty with 21 minutes a game of even strength play and roughly 27 minutes a game of total TOI; and there are in fact only 23 players in the entire NHL playing more than 24 minutes a night.  He is a rookie in a mens league, expecting him to play 24+ minutes a night while discounting the near record breaking rookie season he has had thus far is questionable.

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/stats?category=ICE+TIME&group=1&time=0

And yes, I do expect him to play 22-25 minutes a night. He is in his draft+2 season and is 6'3 200 lbs. If we want him tracking like a potential top pairing d-man he should be dominating the Liiga right now just like Heiskanen is.

 

Right now he is playing 15-20 minutes in a sheltered second pairing role. Now being scratched in back to back games.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

1 minute ago, ohmy said:

Do you want to see him healthy scratched? No l will agree with that. We don't know the reasoning nor should it be a huge issue. He was never gonna play 25+ min a night. Tallinder is there minute muncher and hence why Juolevi is 2nd pairing. It is downright impressive the points he is putting up playing 18+ min a night.  We can all spin it however we want and complain about prospect A B or C. Fact is Juolevi is one of the best D prospects we have had ever maybe. From what I have watched gets me excited. Without comparing to other prospects which part of his game makes you worry about his future?

It's his compete level shift to shift, and overall intensity that I fear with this prospect. I do feel like he has improved defensively somewhat but the most important thing is to improve his foot speed. IMO he was beaten wide way too many times from my viewings.

 

Add to the fact there has been reported conditioning issues with him and rumoured attitude issues does not help.

 

And indeed he does have impressive qualities that can make you excited, like his playmaking and vision. When he plays at his best( Game against Cezch in WJC) I have given him praise.

 

Why was he never going to play 25 minutes a night? If he was tracking like a top pairing d-man he should easily be playing at least 24 minutes a night and should not ever be scratched unless if it's because of an injury. 

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

2 minutes ago, ohmy said:

A healthy scratch is extremely disappointing? That's a red flag for you? What a short sided view of a player. Yeah don't look at the body of work of the season why would that make any sense right. Who else was scratched for a couple games this season hmmmm oh yeah Brock Boeser. That must be a red flag then as well. Or the team is struggling and maybe Juolevi looks tired or maybe he wants to light a fire under his butt. Certainly is no red flag in my book.

Yes, it is disappointing for me to see one of our top prospects healthy scratched for consecutive games. At this point in time, there should be zero reasons for him to even be in the realm of healthy scratch consideration. If he can't even hold a position at the Liiga level, if he can't even be playing 25+ mins at this level how can you possibly see him at the NHL level anytime soon? How long will it take for him to be ready?

 

It just adds to the frustration of draft day, with the players who we passed on who are excelling at the NHL level.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

23 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

I've accused the poster of making these types of comments before,  no sources, acting like they have an inside scoop etc.. should be a bannable offense imo.  But the sheep keep following so nothing will be done

So that poster straight up made up a quote and lied about him having the flu.

 

Should lose all credibility as far as I'm concerned. Pathetic and predictable stuff right there.

 

Regarding Juolevi, another healthy scratch is extremely disappointing and I wonder if it was an attitude issue popping back up again? That fact that they wanted to try something else aka try to improve the team and Juolevi was the odd man out is a red flag for me personally. 

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

7 minutes ago, Jasin23 said:

 

 

I just checked the Liiga page, TPS home page and Jatkoaika.com page and I couldn't find anything about the flu. Would have been so much easier if Rob_Zepp just posted the link to the article.

 

If he indeed does have flu, then nobody wrote about it before the game.

 

Quick word on Heiskanen and Juolevi. Heiskanen is playing 2nd year in Liiga, where Olli is playing his first. It's a big difference, where first year your comfort level istn't that high.

 

Juolevi is making strides and he'll be a big part of Canucks for years to come.

No doubt if that Rob_Zepp just posted a source it would have saved a lot of time, but it's clear he is just making that flu thing up.

 

Hopefully, Juolevi is playing tomorrow would be great if he ended off the year on a strong note.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

3 minutes ago, cyoung said:

As a 19 year old, being benched is normal in pro leagues. He may of been sick as well, or a nagging injury. The latter would make more sense considering how well he has played. 

Not really. If you're a key part of your team you won't be scratched. Just look at all the u20 drafted players in European leagues. All of them are playing big minutes and have not been healthy scratches at all.

 

If Juolevi was a healthy scratch because of his play that would be a red flag to me because right now he is a sheltered second pairing d-man in the Liiga. If it's because of a need for rest, that is also concerning because he only plays 16-20 minutes a night and has had conditioning issues in the past.

 

Now if it's because of Illness or a nagging injury like you suggest then it would be a non-issue.

 

That's all I'm asking for here. Just want a simple answer.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

4 minutes ago, Darius71 said:

Yup, you are offering a lot right now, ill do the right thing and move aside...

How dare I ask questions!

 

You might not care if he was scratched or not, but I do. I like to keep tabs on all our prospects and I'm sure others do too.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

3 minutes ago, cyoung said:

You are acting like OJ is having a poor season. He's having an awesome year. No reason not to be excited, regardless of the benching. 

How do you figure that all I'm asking is why he was Benched? Was it because of his play or an illness lol

 

Some of ya'll get way to bent out of shape

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

1 minute ago, Darius71 said:

Oh, im sure the likes of you would find something to complain about...

Yup, I'm sure complaining about Pettersson right now!

 

If you don't have anything to advance the discussion it's better to stay out of it.

 

I'm asking a simple question here where I and I'm sure other posters are wondering why Juolevi was a Healthy scratch. Someone is stating he had the flu and all I'm asking is for a source.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

1 minute ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Written out for you - here you go.   I am not your secretary so please learn Google and a bit of Finnish.

 

Juoleviin tähtien rookie on sairastunut viime viikolla ja jotkut eivät pelaa säännöllisesti seurauksena.......

Can you give me a direct link to where you read that? Would like to read the whole thing.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

1 minute ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Coz I read it.   I guess he may just have a cold.   I don't know.   Why not call his doctor as you seem very concerned about his health.     People do get sick.   

What did you read?

 

Can you write out the quote about Juolevi, would be much appreciated.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

5 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

SM-liiga weekly news section.    Google is your friend.

What on earth is this lol.... It goes to the SM liiga wiki page

 

Do you have a direct link to a report saying Juolevi has the flu which is the cause of his healthy scratch?

 

Or are you making this up?

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

4 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Neither is in the NHL so it's kind of pointless to compare them at this stage.

 

It's like how some guys can dominate in the AHL and never make the NHL and others can struggle there but find their way to the next level.

That's true, but comparing Heiskanen to Larsen was kind of odd lol

 

If Juolevi was doing what Heiskanen is doing he would get ton's more hype. They play the same position and are 1 year apart in age so it is fair to compare their seasons so far especially with them playing in the same league.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Different ice surface.  Heiskanen is slight, and wants to play D.  He’s a Euro player.  Olli is a much bigger body.  Bigger guys take more time, especially on D, to develop.  Olli will become a top two NHL dman.  That other guy will soon be FORGOTTEN.  

Is this a Canuck’s Fan Board?

Heiskanen is a year younger and is having a much better season than Juolevi. They play on the same ice surface. Ya Heiskanen does play D and he's putting up impressive offensive numbers as well and isn't being healthy scratched. Not to mention he plays 28 minutes a night is the go-to guy as an 18-year-old .

 

But back to Juolevi, was it reported he has the flu? Really curious or was it due to his compete level or defensive play? All I'm getting is that he was a healthy scratch.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

2 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

No but if Hesky gets the flu will he simply just play as he is beyond that kind of concern as he is super human?   Was odd that at WJC OJ logged massive minutes and Hesky was benched.   

 

Give all these kids a chance to grow and even get sick.   

Do you have a report of him getting the flu or are you making this up? Need a source.

 

 

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

Just now, Alflives said:

Olli has the flu.  My point is a healthy scratch for a very young player really means nothing to how good he will become.  Heiskanen is like that Larsen guy we tried last year - a Euro league player, and nothing more.  

Source? Was there actually a report he has the flu or is that made up? The poster who watches him says he was a healthy scratch.

 

Umm look up Heiskanen, i think you'll be in a surprise at how dominant of a Liiga player he is at age 18. Oh ya he made the Olympic squad as well.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Even with Hedman out injured, Sergachev has been a healthy scratch twice last week.  Young players sometimes need simply to get extra rest, much like Boeser got (by sitting out) our first two games this season.  It means NOTHING to how good Olli will become.

If Juolevi was in the NHL and put up 27 points and was a scratch I would care less. 

 

But he's in the Finnish league. You don't see Heiskanen being healthy scratched.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

19 hours ago, Jasin23 said:

Olli was healthy scratch in the game. TPS won the game 5:2, so not sure if he'll play the next game. 

 

Btw, totally agree with what you wrote. I hope this decision comes from Sami and he spends the extra practice/video time with Olli the same way as Travis has been doing with Jake and other young players.

 

Next games are on Tuesday and Thursday. Hopefully latest on Thursday Olli is back in.

Would really be disappointing if he is a healthy scratch 2 games in a row. Not a good look especially when you're supposed to be a key guy on the back-end. Hopefully back in the line-up tomorrow and starts contributing on the scoresheet.