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lmm

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Posts posted by lmm

    OEL - do we really need him?

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    3 hours ago, timberz21 said:

    This thread, do we really need it?

     

    Not defending OEL, but 3 games is not a good sample size.  A replacement can take his minutes in a short span, but for a full season?  I believe we went 2-1-1 when QH was injured early in the season, doesn't mean squat.

    I think there is a weird Superstitious Hope that by starting a "Do We Really Need Him" thread that the player will magically turn into the next Alex Burrows

    Its been tried before

    so far there is only one Alex Burrows

    • Cheers 1

    Anyone feeling more confident in the plan or direction that management sort of set for this team?

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    14 hours ago, CanuckFan1123 said:

    I don’t blame Benning for the OEL trade. I think Aquaman wanted to compete asap and forced Benning to make a big move. And tbh it wasn’t a bad trade. OEL had some great years earlier in his career and the possibility of a rejuvenation with a new team seemed like it had a shot and Garland seemed like a developing top 6 forward on a good contract. I think if this team was playing like they did when green got canned last year when Boudreau came in, no one would call this trade a bust because we’d be playoff bound. Unfortunately for us our organization is a constant train wreck. 

    that is just wrong

    the OEL trade was stupid

    OEL was overrated at the best of times

    At best he was going to give 2-3 years of solid defense, turns out he gave us one year

     

    HOw is it that I can live in my mom's basement eating poptarts in my slippers and I could  (did) tell you it was a terrible trade the day it happened 

    and yet dazzling fans like you can still defend it?

     Unfortunately our organization is a train wreck because it makes moves like the OEL trade or the Loui signing or letting Tanev and Markstrom walk for nothing or waiting too long to let go of Oli and Jake.  

    that is why we are witnessing a train wreck, 

    Its not magic, its bad moves by bad management

    Jim Benning

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    9 hours ago, The Lock said:

    You only listed a couple of GMs that haven't be fired a their jobs. Does that make what you're saying any better? If so, please elaborate further.

     

    I'm listing GMs who were among the most successful at their job within that particular organization, in some cases the most successful at their job in that organization, only to have to leave later on due to the team losing. Your premise here is to say that winning GMs get to keep their jobs, yes? My list proves that that's not necessarily the case.

     

    Also, I only provided the start of the alphabetical list of teams. Do you want me to go through ALL of the teams? I literally only had to do 5 minutes of work to get those 5 GMs. I also could provide more than 1 GM from each team. I was hoping you'd be able to understand this and be less bullheaded about this. I figured you were a smart so I didn't go any further. I still do think you're smart, but if you really need me to start coming up with an exhaustive list for this discussion that has no bearing on anything otherwise, I will; however, I want to see your list with my list. You also should be doing work in this. ;)

     

    We can 100% get to the bottom of all this if that is what you really want, although I expect you to just say "it's a funny list" no matter how much work I put in because you seem to be here to "win a debate", not actually learn what happens to GMs. This isn't meant as an attack, just an observation. Perhaps you could pleasantly surprise me though.

     

     

    nah

    I'm losing interest in this debate

    you can continue to believe "Most" teams fire their GMs

     

    In some respects not enough blame has been sent Trevor Linden's way

    He Hired Jim and then let his own position slip away

    Kind of makes you wonder about Trevor's character evaluatons

     

    Good teams don't fire their Presidents either

    the Canucks have fired Burke, Gillis, Linden and Benning

    and that is just during the Aqua era

     

    anyway, carry on, I'll lock horns with you again on a more current topic

    cheers

    Jim Benning

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    On 2/21/2023 at 12:06 PM, spook007 said:

    Yeah it didn't work, withy neither Willie nor Green.

    Kind of wonder, if this was all down to bad coaching, or in part down to poor team building. Willie did get the team to the playoffs (poor performance v Flames). The roster the year after was done. Going through the roster makes one realise how poor it really was...

    Bill LaForge was a bad coach

    he lasted 20 games

    If a GM allows bad coaching to hang around for 8 years, it's on the GM

    Likewise if the Prez allows a bad GM ... oh wait

     

    at least Darryl Sutter fired himself

     

     

     

     

     

    Jim Benning

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    20 hours ago, The Lock said:

    The thing is, you're only really focusing on the GMs that have stayed in power. Poile is very much the exception to the rule. He's literally the only GM Nashville's ever had. To say that's rare when you consider how long that has been is an understatement.

     

    If you want examples of GMs winning and not being on that team anymore I can give you examples outside of the Canucks:

    Murray (ANA), although there's controversy there but still lol

    Maloney (ARI), the only time Arizona has ever made it to the 3rd round of the playoffs

    Chiarelli (BOS), won the stanley cup (unfortunately)

    Sutter (CAL), was a GM while being a coach, made it to the SCF though

    Bowman (CHI), won multiple Stanley cups

     

    This is just going through the start of teams in alphabetical order and I bet you almost every team (obviously not Nashville thus almost) has at least one GM with a winning record that was fired later on.

     

    Of course, teams like Arizona and Buffalo sweep out GMs more, but that's just more GMs that were fired which really does add to my point and I don't think should be ignored.

    now you are just listing GMs who have left their jobs

    everyone leaves jobs

    I have left every job I have ever had except the one I currently have

    and so have you

    that is a funny list

    didn't Murray and Bowman both step down because of sex scandals

    Sutter fired himself

    and Moloney was was in Arizona, which I mentioned earlier as a team that regularly "Cleans house"

    so that leaves you with Chia

    Jim Benning

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

    If Aquaman would promote PA it might well lead to him being  involuntarily committed to a hospital. It would be IMHO the last straw for many fans. Indeed it might result in the movement of the Canucks else where. A catastrophe of epic proportions

    so you are saying there's a chance

    (insert jim carey meme here)

    • Haha 1

    Jim Benning

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    21 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

    Well it seems simple to me, you find a JR replacement. Any number of teams have executives similar to JR

    I think you are missing my point Fred

     

    I am not in a position to find a newer JR

    but Aqua might just do what he has done before and promote PA (with the caveat that he, Aqua, gets to pull the string)

    or

    the new Prez might want to "bring in his own guy"

    who wants to "bring in his own guy"

    who wants to "bring in his own guy"

     and the whole sad story repeats itself

    we could have a whole new staff (except for Ron Delorme, that guy could survive Armageddon) by 2024

    Jim Benning

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    6 minutes ago, The Lock said:

    I'm fairly confident it is without actually going in an looking at the statistics just based on how often GM's come and go. Also, keep in mind, often times the reason a GM goes is because the team isn't doing what is desired, whether that's missing the playoffs, not winning playoff rounds, etc. A GM could also have a winning record, and then have a couple of bad seasons and end up having to leave because of that.

     

    As far as "moving up the ladder" goes, I don't know if I quite understand what you mean here. Do you mean internally within the same team or do you mean in terms of reputation and getting jobs elsewhere? Gillis for example hasn't exactly been a GM since being here and he has reportedly tried to become a GM without success despite being the most "winningest GM" when he was with us. This goes to show there's more than just winning that makes a good GM and looks can perhaps be deceiving?

    I think Vancouver is not the best team to use as the medium

    GMs also double as the President in Vancouver

    Vancouver has a penchant for sweeping out the whole lot from President down to stick boy, well not stick boy cuz the stick boy is an Aquellini

    also bad teams like Arizona, Ottawa, Buffalo sweep out the GM more often than good teams

    Slats has never been fired, Steve Y moved from Tampa to Detroit without getting fired, I don't think David Poile has been fired, George MacPhee, technicaslly not fired by Washington, but contract not renewed (splitting hairs) but I believe he moved from GM to president in Vegas

     San Jose had one GM for 19 years and Doug WIlson stepped down for health reasons (not mental health)

    Lou Lammoriello has never been fired but is GM of his 3rd team

    Jim Benning

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    6 minutes ago, The Lock said:

    And just to add to this, any GM could have done things better, whether that's a GM for our team, for another NHL team, or for a team in another sport entirely.

     

    Thinking out loud, I was going to say something to the likes of comparing GMs should be about what they started with and where they ended up, but that's probably unfair to GMs as most GMs get fired. lol

    is that statistically true?

    I feel like many GMs of winning teams move up the ladder, rather than out the door

    Jim Benning

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, spook007 said:

    Yep, you can find a lot that could have been a lot better, but that still doesn't change the fact he picked Petey....

     

    Big mistake in extending Green and Baumer...

     

    still laughing at the "Green will grow with the team" fans

    and even funnier are the "Green is a good coach now, while the team is young, but will need to be replaced when the team starts winning" set

    I wonder where any of these NHL players would be if they had bad coaching their entire careers?

     

    [PGT] Philadelphia Flyers at Vancouver Canucks | Feb. 18, 2023

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    I don't usually watch HNIC because I would rather miss Bieksa than watch Ron McLean and Kelly

    but I watch the Philly game

    and I have to ask, is Ron Mclean really showing signs of dementia?

    speaking about Silovs.. " Calgary jumped out to a 2-0 lead and then it was all Silovs"

    and "You, yu,  ewe, euphemism, there's the word"

    I don't like the guy, but I wouldn't wish this on him

     

    on a positive note, I liked how John Garrett bailed EP40 out when the talk went too long on Captaincy

    I thought John had one of his usual rough starts, but he earned his keep by moving the conversation along there.

     

    Good game by Petey and nice to see Beauvillier settling in

    Jim Benning

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    On 2/18/2023 at 4:33 PM, Fred65 said:

    I guess we're talking by degree. PA still has a better success curve ( IMHO ) than JB. It's simple again IMHO JB was not an intelectual genius. He couldn't stand up to the other moron FA and so here we are. I think the benefit of JR/PA is before agreeing to join the franchise JR  made it known to FA Hockey ops were only to be made by JR/PA. It's a huge difference JB wanted the job badly being a rookie and was pushed around by FA. This Cap problem is much bigger than most are will to acknowldge

    So what happens if JR quits, like has been rumoured?

    then we have another rookie GM working under Aquaman

    You are lumping JR and PA as one being

    things were different when it was Linden and Benning

    Benning's first summer he traded Kesler and Garrison for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd

    then promptly wasted the 2nd and 3rd, but did draft McCann, Demko, Tree and Forsling, also wasting his first 1st

    It was still his best summer overall

     

    now what happens if Jim does quit and Aqua offers PA the presidency with strings attached?

    we could be right back where we were when Linden left

    It's not that far fetched

    Jim Benning

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Timråfan said:

    Ok, just the summer . 
    The team is supposed to be mediocre now. 
    How can they change anything if not.

    BB screwed their planning when they played so good when he came. 
    Tocchet had to come in later than planned. 

    I take that to mean Bruce, not Brock. 

    YOu mean JR and PA could not see the pig for the lipstick

    ya, that's on them not Bruce

     

     they need to be bad, not mediocre now

    Jim Benning

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    32 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

    Well, Boesers contract is short and he is still young… Why bother?

    Millers contract is not an anchor contract yet.

    Come back in five years and we can discuss further.

    If you want to hold the second against them you should hold Islanders first for them.

    Lekkerimäki has been sick/injured so let’s see in a few years.

     

    The fourth line, hmm, one small point but since this is a middle year for evaluation the cheap players are mostle there to fill up the roster.

    Let’s see wich players stay a couple years.

     

     

    The Horvat trade, Tocchet, Abbotsford etc is way above the futile problems you see.

    we were talking about the summers

    PA has only had one summer

    and it wasn;t good

    I am happy with the Horvat trade and the first acquired

    but I don't think you build a winning team with one good/one bad move

    that is how you get to where we are right now - mediocre

     

    Jim Benning

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted · Edited by lmm

    17 hours ago, Timråfan said:

    In what way? 

    Signed Boeser to  an immovable contract

    Signed Miller to and anchor contract

    traded away the 2023 second

    rebuilt the 4th line but forgot to add snarl

    came up negative in coaching

    suspect 1st round pick ( I don't write guys off in year 1, but not looking great)

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