Industrious1

As you say, this is the issue. However, recognize that right now that is what is happening but in reverse. Either way, we have unhappy Canadians wishing to be heard. The simplest answer is election reform (not the only answer, but the most glaring). Are you a supporter of the current system, or do you believe that we should move forward with a system that better represents all Canadians?

Fair, but there is a growing segment of the population that disagrees and would like to see some type of change to bring our system into the modern era. I am one of them, but I respect and see the point that you are making in your statement.

On this we can agree. 3-4 Urban centers deciding the fate of the entire country is clearly something multiple people (from multiple parties) have identified as a problem long before us keyboard warriors noticed it. Now we just need to wait for the follow through.....

I believe there is room in Canada for a little election reform. In fact, it was a pillar of an election platform not too many years ago. Not sure what happened between here and then but it certainly did not materialize. Are you a proponent of the "First Past the Post" system? Personally, I'd like to see an update to our electorate in a way to bring it into the modern era (not sure what that would look like, but there are people far smarter than me that can contribute to that).

I believe both sides tend to misrepresent the other, it is a tool of modern politics and a very effective one. As is being evidenced right now. The idea is that you place the onus upon me to agree with you or risk being labelled as a racist or some other undesirable tag. Highly effective....too effective really, because it has become the wedge that divides us in society right now. A step back from such rhetoric and hate would be better advised, unless of course one wishes to descend into violence. If that is the goal then there is no faster way to get there.

Time will tell. Political pressure is mounting, I'm not sure the Prime Minister can afford to have this 'situation' sitting with his aforementioned friends in the backbenches. Although at the same time, party infighting at this particular moment would also be ill-advised. Look at what this has done to the conservatives...not pretty.

Ah, yes. This viewpoint. Very bracing, but not terribly helpful in discourse. I imagine each side in the debate has a number of like-minded individuals and that is certainly your prerogative to take, however ultimately nothing but violence comes out of such rhetoric. I tend to be opposed to violence, be it from one viewpoint or the other.

Some good points being made on both sides. Although I do believe that some 'arguments' were more valid than others 3-6 months ago. As such, they have been rendered somewhat ineffective/confusing as the situation has evolved. I am referring to certain mandates, which clearly aren't being followed seriously anymore or the more egregious travel mandates/restrictions which are currently front and center in the news and in many conversations happening around the globe. Letting 'er rip as some would say is probably the not the safest way forward but some would say it is the most practical. The answer is most likely something in-between that and lockdowns because at this point the government stands to lose serious face (and certain hardliners) if they just 180 and let things drop, there is pride and politics to consider (we can see it in this very thread). The equitable way forward has to involve a compromise between those in power and the disenfranchised that would allow both to go home knowing that they've both pulled on the same rope and did the right thing. The way backward could be any number of things. Either way it will be very interesting to observe.

Blasphemy

I see. Do you believe our Prime Minister will tolerate him breaking ranks? History would tell us no, but then that is most parties and most leaders in the modern era. I certainly wouldn't wish for a rival to be sitting across me...even of the same political spectrum.

Nice to see some actual discussion happening. A much more vibrant feel to the forum when discussion and democracy are in action, kudos to everyone participating in a civil manner.

Are you referring to this thread (which you may be right, certainly) ? Or are you referring to this politicians newly represented stance on this issue? Because I do not think this will be going away.

A link was posted in the election thread. This is something that I feel warrants its own discussion for those wishing to participate. Mods can be the final arbiter, of course.

Setting himself up for a shot at Trudeau's throne? Or will he be ousted like other detractors? Interesting times. Liberal MP accuses his own government of 'politicized' approach to the pandemic | CBC News Loaded Politics Liberal MP accuses his own government of 'politicized' approach to the pandemic 'The tone and the policies of my government have changed drastically,' Quebec MP Joël Lightbound says John Paul Tasker · CBC News · Posted: Feb 08, 2022 12:51 PM ET | Last Updated: 1 hour ago Liberal MP for Louis-Hebert Joel Lightbound speaks about COVID restrictions during a news conference, Tuesday, Feb. 8, 2022 in Ottawa. (Adrian Wyld/Canadian Press) Liberal Quebec MP Joël Lightbound says he's uncomfortable with the federal government's handling of the ongoing COVID-19 crisis, saying its pandemic response has become "politicized" and "divisive." Pointing to more than a dozen developed countries that have started to do away with restrictions already, Lightbound said Tuesday it's reasonable to rethink Canada's COVID-19 approach as it becomes increasingly clear that the world will be dealing with this virus for years to come. Lightbound said people who question existing policies should not be "demonized" by their prime minister. "I can't help but notice with regret that both the tone and the policies of my government have changed drastically since the last election campaign. It went from a more positive approach to one that stigmatizes and divides people," Lightbound said. Canada needs to adopt a 'more sustainable' approach to COVID-19, Tam says 'It has to stop': Trudeau accuses protesters of blockading 'democracy' during Commons debate Court grants injunction to silence honking in downtown Ottawa for 10 days Lightbound said the Liberal government's decision to put vaccines at the centre of the political debate risks undermining public trust in the country's public health institutions. "It's becoming harder and harder to know when public health stops and where politics begins," he said. "It's time to stop dividing Canadians and pitting one part of the population against another." WATCH: Liberal MP says he's 'uncomfortable' with politicization of vaccines, pandemic Liberal MP says he's 'uncomfortable' with politicization of vaccines, pandemic 6 hours ago Duration1:50 Liberal MP Joel Lightbound is speaking out against provincial and federal vaccine mandates and COVID-19 policies, many of which were implemented by his party. 1:50 Although he's criticizing the government's approach, Lightbound said he has no desire to leave the Liberal caucus. Lightbound — a former parliamentary secretary to the minister of finance — said he hopes his comments will push Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and his cabinet to "adapt to the changing reality of the pandemic and of the world." Ottawa must offer a 'roadmap,' MP says Speaking to reporters on Parliament Hill, Lightbound said COVID-19-related restrictions have wreaked havoc for too long and the federal government needs to provide some sort of "roadmap" for lifting pandemic measures, such as the strict limits on travel. He said measures that were reasonable in a previous phase of the pandemic should not be "normalized with no end in sight." While he didn't call for an immediate end to all public health measures, Lightbound said the federal government should establish "clear and measurable targets" for lifting pandemic measures to offer hope to Canadians tired of living with some of the most restrictive rules in the developed world. Lightbound said the federal government should heed the advice of experts like Dr. Theresa Tam, Canada's chief public health officer, and "reassess" pandemic programs like vaccine mandates once the Omicron wave is under control. Chief Public Health Officer of Canada Dr. Theresa Tam is seen via videoconference as Minister of Health Jean-Yves Duclos looks on during a news conference on the COVID-19 pandemic and the omicron variant in Ottawa on Friday, Jan. 7, 2022. (Justin Tang/The Canadian Press) Last week, Tam said the country needs to find a more "sustainable" way to deal with the pandemic and future variants of the virus. Lightbound said the country's leaders can't lose sight of just how damaging restrictions like lockdowns have been for many aspects of daily life. "A population's health, it's kind of like a pie and Omicron is but a slice of that pie. Economic health, social health and mental health must also be accounted for," he said. The Quebec MP said the government's hard line on the vaccine mandate for cross-border truckers is not based on science. Lightbound said it's become a "wedge" issue designed to score political points against the government's opponents. Echoing concerns raised by industry groups like the Canadian Chamber of Commerce and the Retail Council of Canada, Lightbound said the policy is too disruptive to the country's supply chains and pushes up the price of goods. Prime Minister Trudeau has strongly defended the policy, saying a wave of COVID-19 cases is doing more to disrupt Canada's supply chains than any vaccine mandate could. People stand in the Ottawa anti-pandemic rule protest 'red zone' in front of Parliament Hill on Feb. 8, 2022. (Simon Lasalle/Radio-Canada) While he questioned the usefulness of the vaccine mandate, Lightbound condemned the ongoing demonstration in Ottawa. "I have absolutely no sympathy for them," he said of the convoy. "It's time to stop the occupation. It's time for truckers to leave." Lightbound also said the federal government should immediately enter discussions with the provinces and territories about increasing the Canada Health Transfer. He said Ottawa should focus its financial firepower on the root cause of lockdowns and restrictions: the country's limited hospital capacity.

Nothing scarier than seeing two sides both completely believing they are 110% correct. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle but zealots on both sides make the most noise and drown out the moderates.

Bat out of Hell. What an album. All the best to his friends and family, tough way to start '22.

Well...this has certainly taken a turn

Oh, Canada. The cheers and applause as we sink deeper and deeper is the truly troubling part. There was scene like this in one of the Star Wars movies I seen when I was a younger man, right now it keeps playing in my head. I realize this comment will be picked apart and laid bare, that is fine. Still won't change the darker tone that our once great country has taken on over the last couple years. I fear for what the future will look like for my daughter and her generation.

First time I've heard this name get mentioned. Figured after all the issue's Vancouver had with rookie management that JR would go in another direction. Going to have faith in Rutherford's cup ring's and management experience before I pass judgement though (plus it has to actually happen).

Sounds like a policy problem more than anything. I fully agree that something like covid should not push anyone out of anything. As a cancer survivor, my heart goes out to all the people that have had their surgeries bumped for something that only the most extreme cases of should ever see the inside of a hospital for. Hyper-focus on covid and corresponding policies has created this gap and changing said policies will be the only way out of it. That is up to the government and whatever dozen or so highly paid boards oversee this sort of thing. Where I live I'm in the hospital every couple months for my tests & maintenance and luckily I have not conversed with any nurses/oncologists who have told me this has happened here to their knowledge (observation bias, certainly). So in that way we have been much luckier than some area's but it is not the sort of thing you want to bet on if your life is at stake.

Good point lol. I have no problem with discussion overflow (and its the mods that would deal with it anyways) but a push here or there in the right direction might help. Overall though, I fear Rupert may be correct in assuming there are certain issues some of just can't get over and we will just devolve into "No, you!" over and over. Either way, we won't know until we try. I will say this though, the French are like a dog with a bone now...I don't see them leaving this alone for the foreseeable future.

Let's try and steer this a bit more back onto course. Does anyone think that these protests are going to pick up steam as Omicron surges through the world? Or are we seeing the worst of it right now and we will soon be on the path to recovery? Personally, I think this segment of protests (medical, body-rights pertaining to vaccination, etc) is here to stay, although probably in a more contained manner once the initial craziness of all this dies down.

I believe the Chinese have something called the social credit system. You should check that out if you are a fan.

Always liked Rick (even when we weren't getting results). Good to see him sticking up for his team. That is a 25k investment into his roster.

Disagree. I would prefer this to be separate from what that thread has become. Wishing death and ill on people is not how I'd like to move forward on this.