MrCanuck94
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Posts posted by MrCanuck94
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2 hours ago, wildcam said:
I agree Horvat is a very good #2 C should score 25-30 G--56-61 points plays a solid 200 foot game very strong, 6'0, 218 lbs need to sign Horvat 26 years old to long term contract...Say 6 yrs X avv 6.3 million-- Horvats contract expires summer 2023
As mentioned in many previous posts, this isn't true.
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14 hours ago, -AJ- said:
Might be a nice idea, but if Garland is a 1RW, we have serious problems with our first line unless he improves. As it currently stands, he's about a 50-point guy and we should hope for more for a 1st line guy, especially if we want to be a playoff team. That said, if we're sort of mixing and matching our top guys, it might still make sense to have Garland with Petey and Miller with Boeser or something like that to sort of make two decent top six lines.
I disagree, Garland was playing at a 65 point pace on a poor Arizona team last season and is close to 50 points with close to no PP1 time pacing third line minutes throughout the season. Currently second on the team in 5on5 production behind Miller.
Analytics have him as a legit top 6 play driving winger. He is so good at creating opportunities and makes his line mates better.
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5 hours ago, -AJ- said:
I think Allvin would much rather keep Bo than Boeser or Garland, if it came to that.
Would be really sad to lose Garland if it happens. Has some of the best metrics on the team at only 4.95 mill.
Him and Petey had good chemistry together, would be smart to keep him as our 1RW moving forward.
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11 hours ago, -AJ- said:
Bo is on pace for 31 goals in 77 games if he plays the rest of the games this year. Would be sweet to see him have his first 30+ goal season.
Defs would be sweet to pass the 30 marker. Back to his usual pace of 58 points over 82 games as well.
10 hours ago, Pazura92 said:Wait a minute , was I not reading a month back that Horvat is having a down year and isn’t good enough player to be a 2C?
I think the conversation was usually Miller over Bo for 2C, or if he's a 3C on a contender. Both which are still legit discussion points in the bigger picture imo.
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No one forgot, it's the reality of his progression/regression. His impact on the ice has regressed a lot from his first season, although his defensive game has improved, it's still average. Injuries are part of a player's career.
We can't just keep him based on how he played 4 years ago.
Points aren't the issue with Brock, it's his overall play when he's not producing and his skating ability.
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54 minutes ago, BlastPast said:
What do you think a team that potentially acquires the pick will value it as? The pick is worth what it is worth (not a lot) regardless of what you use it for. It's like saying you can't value a $100 dollar bill at $100 because you can use it to buy stuff. Yes, $100 worth of stuff. I, personally, would prefer they not make a bigger deal, if it is unsatisfactory, rather than make one just to satisfy media.
The point is that we have to look at the bigger picture.
Keeping a strategy of these type of moves consistently means we'll do similar type moves in the future and keep accumulating picks that will in total equal to a larger amount of capital that we can use to keep bringing in valuable assets while removing invaluable cap and replacing it with valuable cap. Rinse, repeat.
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2 minutes ago, MrCanuck94 said:
"if your players Tyler Motte makes 500k too much, your Tyler Myers make 2 million too much, those are the type of deals that will hurt you when you try build a team that are a contender"
BANG ON by Jannik Hansen, someone who's lived these situations. Like he said, the last 5/6 years the team has given too many player friendly contracts, paying them more than their value, rather than team value contracts.
We can't just let assets walk for free. The 4th pick can't just be valued by the % of the pick becoming a player. The capital can be used as an added asset that helps win you a trade. It can be combined with cap space to land a player way under value (Schmidt, Toews). There's so many more possibilities, but those possibilities need to be open by having the cap space and more assets on hand. A lot more work to be done in the offseason.
Posting this here as well since it's relevant.
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"if your players Tyler Motte makes 500k too much, your Tyler Myers make 2 million too much, those are the type of deals that will hurt you when you try build a team that are a contender"
BANG ON by Jannik Hansen, someone who's lived these situations. Like he said, the last 5/6 years the team has given too many player friendly contracts, paying them more than their value, rather than team value contracts.
We can't just let assets walk for free. The 4th pick can't just be valued by the % of the pick becoming a player. The capital can be used as an added asset that helps win you a trade. It can be combined with cap space to land a player way under value (Schmidt, Toews). There's so many more possibilities, but those possibilities need to be open by having the cap space and more assets on hand. A lot more work to be done in the offseason.
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2 hours ago, BarnBurner said:
Yeah, I'm laughing at you.
The chances of getting a player like Motte with a 4th is extremely rare, even though he was a 4th. That was pure luck.
Motte's an energizer.
You want guys like that on your team.
Is Motte the be-all, end-all?
Of course not, but don't come across as though you simply can't believe what others have a choice to think, and believe anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't have a clue.
You want guys like that, at the price they are worth.
Allvin already mentioned they couldn't agree on a contract, and he doesn't like to let assets walk free, which is the proper thing to do.
The market rate for a fourth liner was mid to late round picks, no one offered more for Motte.
It's not about getting a player with that pick at an equal or more value, the value also comes from the capital and cap space that can be allocated else where.
It's a big picture move.
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Jeez, I can't believe what I'm reading in the Motte trade thread in regards to new management.
- We cleared cap, got capital.
- Motte was market value, emotional connection to the player doesn't make them more valuable to the rest of the league.
- Every other player is still on contract and can be dealt in the off season, where most of our moves are likely to happen, as has been reported the whole time. No need to make knee jerk trades.
- New management IS following their STRATEGY. Taking their time and making moves that support that is crucial and something past management never did. Let them take their time and create a cup contender.
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1 minute ago, JayDangles said:
It's not that we dumped Motte for a 4th... It's that this is culmination of months of "hard work" from our new management team. A lot of preaching and prepping for this!?
We don't have any other players that were UFAs that we have to move.
Like it's been mentioned, the bulk of work will be done in the off season.
No need to make knee jerk trades if you know you can get decent value in the off season.
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Let's not forget that Motte was the only player we had to make a decision on before the TDL.
Every other player has a longer contract.
Either overpay for a fourth liner or get capital for him.
Management did well.
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Just now, NUCKER67 said:
So, a Rangers 4th in 2023 will be basically a 5th. They just gave Motte away IMO. If it was about cap, then why not trade Pearson or Myers instead?
This isn't a video game. There has to be trades available to make them.
There will be more moves in the offseason.
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Why are so many mad at new management?
- Market value for a fourth line forward
- They tried for an extension before trading him, but Motte's camp wanted too much
- You don't pay fourth liners over 2 mill
- We got capital we can use either for the draft or trades
I wish we got more, but it is what it is. These are the types of moves we need to make to be successful in the bigger picture, things our previous regime didn't do.
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So we:
- cleared cap
- got capital
- used that capital to get a more effective, cheaper, younger d man that can play both sides
Asset management folks.
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2 minutes ago, -AJ- said:
I would tend to agree that he's not an excellent defensive forward, but I'm not sure he's as bad defensively as some say, but moreso just average.
He has been inconsistent within this year, but his inconsistent streaks always end sooner or later. He's already up to his last year's production and is scoring goals at the highest rate of his career. When we were losing against the Caps, Horvat scored two goals to tie the game, and it's far from the first time that he's come through in clutch moments to score goals. Sometimes, he's not having much of an impact in games, but sometimes he's the hero of the game. I think you can make an argument for short-term inconsistency maybe, but not a minimal impact.
Yes, I agree with average, but average doesn't coin you the term "2way".
For sure, I see your point. By minimal impact I was referring to something similar as Brock. When he's not scoring, he's not really making an impact physically, defensively or creatively.
IMO, if I'm building a contender, a 6 mill C either needs to be elite offensively (creative, play driving, playmaking center) or bring a strong 2way game while putting up points (Kesler).
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3 hours ago, higgyfan said:
Throughout his career, Bo has been scoring +20 goals a season; even during the shortened Covid season. Many
of his goals are clutch and game winning. He is one of the fastest skaters on the team and is line is often assigned
to shut down some of the top players in the league. He plays on the PP and PK.
Green didn't play Bo as a 2-way C, preferring to use him as a defensive C. Since Broudreau came on board,
Bo has been playing big PK minutes and is being expected to develop his 2-way game. This is what Bo
was known for in his Jr years. It is why he was picked 9th overall.
Bo isn't a 2way center in the NHL. Period. He's had poor defensive stats analytically and it also fits the eye test. You are correct that his usage has gone up this season, from 24-29 seconds avg TOI on PK the past three seasons to 64 seconds this season. I personally don't like him on the PK as imo he doesn't have great defensive reads and is often just floating around.
If you believe he has another step in his development, then sure. I think he is what he is, which is a complementary 2C, a very good player still.
1 hour ago, -AJ- said:I can understand some flack on Boeser for being inconsistent, but not on Bo. Horvat has been one of the most steady Canucks throughout his career, at least season to season.
I'm not giving Bo flack, I think there's sometimes misconception of what he really is. A solid complementary 2C that can give you 50-60 points is no slouch.
Bo has been very inconsistent this year with his on ice efforts. Like Boeser, he's picked up points along the way, but his impact on the ice for many games has been minimal.
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17 minutes ago, Rindiculous said:
It's originally our 3rd so not really that high
Thanks for the correction. Still a STEAL.
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we got a high third for a cap dump and cleared 3 mill next season?
is this what it's like to have competent management?
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Consistent at being inconsistent.
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1 hour ago, higgyfan said:
If he can maintain those numbers consistently, I would be happy with him. Still a top 6 fw. I can't see him earning
more that 6-6.5m on his next contract. Not sure about term. Nucks will argue that he is Bo's comparable, but Bo
has overall edge due to his more complete game.
Bo doesn't really have a more complete game. He takes more faceoffs, that's about it. Both have average 2-way games and are very inconsistent.
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1 hour ago, -AJ- said:
He's probably my favourite player overall (not necessarily to watch on the ice, but overall), but he's really struggled to consistently maintain his threat level of his rookie year. Last year was a strong year for him, however, which I do think many forget. He was our best forward and he was pretty much up his rookie year status. He played in all 56 games and was on pace for 34 goals and 38 assists for 72 points in 82 games. The question is if you think he can do that again and if you think 2020-21 Boeser is closer to average Boeser or if 2021-22 Boeser is closer to average Boeser. If you believe that latter, then it makes good sense to think trading him now is the best option. If you believe the former, you think he can be a huge piece of our team and one of the best offensive players.
To update, here are some of Boeser's projections in 82 games:
Career average: 31 goals, 34 assists, 65 points
2020-21: 34 goals, 38 assists, 72 points
2021-22: 25 goals, 26 assists, 51 points
2021-22 Boudreau: 31 goals, 29 assists, 60 points
Bare minimum, Boeser is probably a 25-goal, 50-point player, but I think it's worth noting that this year is by far his worst offensive year so far and it's probably unrealistic to assume that this is the "new normal" for Boeser. Maybe he doesn't score 35 goals, but I think it's reasonable to assume that he can go back to the 30-goal, 65-point average of his career, unless there's a good reason to think that his worst year is going to become the expected return for Boeser.
We may have discussed this before but for me it's not just about the points. When he's not scoring, he's making no impact on the game.
We need to utilize 6 million more efficiently.
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2 hours ago, wildcam said:
Kapanen 25, 6'1 RW last 4 seasons have be leaving questions about him..
2021-22 - GP 58 -- G 9 -- PTS 26
2020-21 - GP 40 --G 11 --PTS 30
2019-20--GP 69--G 13 -- PTS 36
2018-19 -GP 78 --G 20 --PTS 44
Not really interested in Kapanen 3.2 million RFA this summer.. He should be a 25 goal guy and 58--65 points
I would want more then Marino 23 for Boeser 25..
Garland -Pitts -- Van -Marino
Shedding Poolman's salary is value as well in this circumstance.
Kapanen's even strength points last 4 seasons - 39, 31, 26, 22 (so far)
Boeser's even strength points last 4 seasons - 41, 31, 34, 18 (so far)
Production isn't a huge drop off and we can move Garland to PP1, where he belongs.
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To Pit:
Boeser
Motte
Poolman
To Van:
Marino
Kapanen
Teams fill each others needs and we cut ties with Poolman with Hamonic on the third pair. Pitts gets Poolman as support on the bottom pair to somewhat make up for the loss of Marino. We get Kapanen who has produced better than Boeser 5on5 while adding a lot to our team speed. Lockwood has shown that he is close to NHL ready and has a similar play style to Motte.
*Barring other moves*
Kapanen Miller Pod
Hog Petey Garland
Pearson Horvat Dickinson
Highmore Lammikko Lockwood
Hughes Marino
OEL Myers
Rathbone Hamonic
DemkoHalak
Bo Horvat | #53 | C
in Alumni
Posted
The thing is, with Petey and Miller, they're defensively responsible and make their wingers better, so it doesn't matter who you put them with.
Bo being more of a complementary piece, you have to make sure he's with at least one strong 2 way forward and one playmaker that can get him the puck to shoot.