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MrCanuck94
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Posts posted by MrCanuck94
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We're not getting Johnson or Jiricek for Bo, let alone both
He's scoring at an unbelievable rate, but it isn't sustainable and GMs are smart enough to know that numbers will regress back to normal eventually.
Hopefully the hot streak bumps his value a bit, maybe a trade like Jenner, Peeke and a 2nd 2023?
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4 hours ago, wildcam said:
OMG, you can never move both Miller and Horvat?? Finding top centre men are as hard as finding RD men.. Vancouver would then be looking to find a # 2 centre? 1. Petey 2. ___ 3. ___ 4. Lazar-- Aman
Trade Miller get best deal you can and move on..
If we trade Miller and Horvat, we would likely be able to draft a 1C in the first round. This is a very deep draft and those trades would likely give us multiple first round picks.
It's the perfect time to move on from those pieces.
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11 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:
Realistically Bo could hit 40 goals this year, have a Kreider-like season. Sure he snags lots of PPGs but people forget he's great all over the ice. He's currently on 180 career goals say he drops another 30 this year he'll be on 210 and only 27-28 years old. Daniel's 393 goals will probably be safe to be fair if Bo averages 25 goals for the next 5 years he would (fittingly) end up in Linden territory.
Pay the man, unlike JT who had one big offensive year and one great year before that, Bo has consistently been great all over the ice and is only exploding now offensively with the rest of the league. He has been consistent and you should pay for that, not just a once off 99 point season. If we judge it based on Petey/Hughes' contracts, Horvat rightly deserves a similar number, 7.5M is fair considering JT got 8M.
We should rightly spend on our core of Petey, Miller, Bo and Hughes. You can't be then also carrying so many 5-6M wingers on board, and to be fair with such great centers we really don't have that need. The 13M defensive pairing doesn't help but that's another conversation...
Unfortunately, our assets aside from untouchables (EP, QH, TD) and Miller/Horvat likely won't bring in too much value.
Canucks need to reset and the best way is to trade Miller or Horvat. With Miller already under contract, that will take some teams out of the race who have future cap obligations, so trading Horvat for some good assets might be the way to go.
Horvat's numbers are very inflated right now. Shooting 9.8% above his career shooting % and about 5 points per 60 on the powerplay over his career average. Would be the perfect time to sell high.
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My thoughts:
It's pretty obvious the organization does not view Boudreau as the solution.
Next season seems like the bigger priority, this season and next off-season will be used to shape the team.
They tried to make moves, were in on almost every defenseman in the offseason, we didn't have the cap or assets to make those moves.
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What an interview. Summary to follow:
- Likes the people in the organization. Believes they're in a strong position to make big decisions moving forward.
- Happy with new facility in Rogers Arena and Abbotsford upgrades. Working on practice facility. Ownership is willing to invest in upgrade necessary areas.
- Feels the same way about the team as the texters that text into the show do
(hint, not happy)
- Was expecting better. Didn't like training camp and the early part of the season.
- Lot of things need to happen, team needs to play with stronger systems and accountability.
- The amount of times we have given up leads is a major concern. Something needs to be fixed. Can't be losing 3-0 leads at home with the goalie and players we have.
- Stresses structure and accountability to the coaches.
- The loose style the team played last year was supported by a strong goalie, doesn't believe that style of play is sustainable if the team is trying to contend for a playoff spot.
- We're at a point, moreso the end of this roadtrip, to make players more accountable. They have to take necessary steps to get players' attention.
- Tried to make changes in the offseason, priority being RD. Need to make it younger. Took a step with Ethan Bear.
- Bear deal took months, didn't have enough cap space. Finally got creative enough to do it.
- If team was playing in a strong structure, would make defence easier to play.
- Need to change make up of defence.
- They were in on almost every defenceman in the offseason, but we didn't have the cap or another team had a better offer.
- Coaches decision on who's in the lineup.
- Word they use internally is build, not rebuild. Continue to build, move out players that don't fit, move in younger players. 26 and younger.
- With the start we had, will be tough to claw out of the hole and contend for a playoff spot this season.
- There will be a point where next season will be the priority.
- Might have to consider trading players they weren't planning to trade to get younger assets. Can't trade players that other teams don't want.
- Goal for next season is to acquire younger players, draft picks and cap space. Hard to move players that have no value or negative value.
- Had to move Dickinson to work with a 23 man roster.
- Are willing to make moves in-season. Don't have to wait until the off-season.
- Players like Mikheyev were signed to be an important piece when we are contenders, not just brought in for this season.
- Hasn't been movement on the Bo end. Priority to keep Bo. Proud of Bo not losing focus. Hope that keeps going.
- If we can't sign Bo, the better he plays, the better return we get for him.
Thoughts?
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IF there was a season to tank however, this is definitely the season to do it.
Bedard and Vancouver just seem too good of a fit for the player and franchise.
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Tbh I'd say 5 games instead of 10.
Last year showed that by the 20 game mark, it's too late to start climbing back.
If we keep losing the next five, we need to sell off assets not named EP, QH and TD.
If we win 4/5 of the next 5 games, then we're back into the playoff race.
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1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said:
bo is an offensive center?? then better start walking away coz he ain't signing for 6.5mil and he's on pace for 54 goals 73 points prolly won't hit those numbers but he have shown he's capable to score and i wouldn't be suprise if he some how hits 40 goals on a contract year.. coz that's what players do have career number on contract years.
Offensive as in he's not a two way or defensive center. Let's see if he can push past the 60 point plateau this season.
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42 minutes ago, BPA said:
Shush.
Posters have pigeonholed him to be a 3c. And only worth $6.5M tops. But…Miller is on his line now…so does that make Miller a 3rd liner with a future cap hit of $8M???
I don't think I've seen anyone call Bo's capabilities as a 3C. He's just the third best center behind Petey and Miller.
Bo is a solid 2C.
Yes, my walk away number for a 60 point offensive center is 6.5 mill.
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1 minute ago, Coconuts said:That's fair. Having a player who can play center in a pinch isn't a bad thing by any means, I just question whether he's a center or a wing as he seems to struggle with the defensive responsibility that comes with being a center. Even last year during what was probably a career year he still made questionable decisions with the puck, gave up on plays, ect. I don't think it's a coincidence that he's played better as a winger, there's less responsibility and all he has to do is drive play.
But there was the discussion of the Canucks depth at center going into the season and I don't believe we're as deep as folks thought we were. Three top six centers down the middle hasn't worked. I'd argue our top six center depth consists of Pettersson and Horvat, who can capably play both ways despite Horvat being miscast as a defensive center.
We still don't have a single prospect with top six upside imo, I hope we address that sooner than later.
I was thinking about what made our 2011 team work so well, everyone just knew their role so well.
Henrik was the offence only center, we didn't really worry about the 2 way ability and Burrows kinda worked as the 2 way guy on that line.
Kesler was the 2 way beast.
Malhotra was the defensive center that could chip in.
Lapierre was the pest.
Maybe we need to find players that fit the roles better than just upside?
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2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:
By trio, I mean 3 players that can play the position in a top 6 role.
I like having two centres on a top line like we have been doing lately with Bo and JT.
I also liked when Ep was on the wing with JT.
We have a few wingers that can play in the top six, one more if we continue to double up centres.
3 down the middle is cool too but we need to be a team that rolls the lines more evenly if we do that.
Really good point, and teams like Tampa do have this setup (Stamkos on the wing).
Only difference is, our guys (other than Petey) haven't shown the ability to play consistently with high effort levels every game. Showing up every 3-4 games won't get us to contenders.
Would be weary of locking up everyone for that reason, but as mentioned above, if we do decide Miller is a long-term winger, would be hard to replace Bo at 2C. Dilemma.
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2 hours ago, Plaguez said:
A lot of suggestions in here from people that seem to think 58% faceoff winning, fast, strong, 30 goal scoring centermen are easy to replace. When the coach wants to get someone going offensively what does he do? Throws them on Bo's line. If we lose Bo tomorrow we have no replacement for him. There is nobody on this team capable of playing against a top line & shutting them down while also driving offense the other way.
Bo has already taken 217 faceoffs this year. In 9 games. We don't have anyone else on the team that steps in and not only takes those draws but wins the majority of them. That is a lot of team possession lost. Incredible how little respect he has in this market. Anywhere else he's an untradable, foundation piece. Here? Let's trade him for a prospect & a pick.
To me there are 4 untradable players on this team Pettersson, Demko, Hughes and Horvat. I'm hoping Canucks management is working on getting him signed as soon as possible.
When has Bo been used to get someone going offensively? That is simply not true. Miller and Petey are the centers that get their wingers going offensively, as they are the better playmakers and have higher ceilings.
A huge decision coming up for management is if they plan to use JT long-term a center or not.
I have personally been in favor of moving Bo IF management sees JT as a center. Better to use that capital elsewhere and gain assets via trade than 7 mill on 3C.
If management doesn't see Miller as a center long-term, then definitely, it is likely in our best interest to sign Horvat as our 2C as we can't guarantee what will be available on the market.
Unless Bedard decides to pull a Lindros and we have Bedard/Petey as our 1C/2C
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1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:
"at this point in the season, it just feels like it's never going to happen, like we’re never going to win again."
I think JR needs to call Tony Robbins...
Our captain, instead of being the one who everyone needs to go to for hope, is showing mental fragility (similar to the team).
I feel for the guy. He's grown in a losing organization and that has also likely hindered his development in leadership.
Fresh start for both sides might be beneficial, not just for our team, but also for Horvat's career.
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Wyatt makes a good point.
IMO, maybe it is time for the organization to start with fresh leadership. It could also help Bo flourish elsewhere with a fresh start as well.
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7 hours ago, Locke Lamora said:
4 goals in 6 games?
6 hours ago, gurn said:some folk never let reality get in the way of their bias.
Minds are made up, and incapable of change.
right or wrong, no longer matters, their course is set.
And he's played well in 2 of those 6 games.
Pearson and Boeser have 4 points each, and they've played poor almost every game.
It's not just about stats, it's how the players play each game.
I like Miller and I can say he's probably been the worst forward. There's no agenda behind the takes of Horvat not playing well this season.
Petey's line is the only one that has been able to consistently drive play, create chances, control the ice and be a strong 2 way presence.
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8 minutes ago, BPA said:
So I hear Miller and Hughes had a bad game. So from some posters, the solution is to trade Boeser.
The defense can't even keep up with a team like Columbus, so it would make sense to trade Boeser and get a top 4 RHD, if he still has any trade value left.
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10 minutes ago, Devron said:
Horvat was great all over the ice. There were positives today. Miller though I can’t really say anything good right now.
4 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:Horvats backcheck effort in OT was nonstop. He didnt stop moving his feet. The effort is definitely there, he wants to win, hustled back as fast as he could and didnt give up. He showed why hes the leader of this team. I applaud him for doing everything he could to try and prevent a goal and give us another chance to win
Horvat had a good game today.
He needs to (along with much of the team) keep that consistency going on an ongoing basis and not just every 3-4 games.
Miller is looking the worst he has in a Canucks jersey, I'm sure he'll figure it out soon, he's too good not to.
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1 minute ago, DSVII said:
20 games. That's usually the barometer you measure the season with before deciding your trade deadline strategy.
But yes...this team is a Glass cannon at best and an odd case where the whole is less than the sum of its parts. They just dont jell. Very close to just giving up on this core minus demko/petey/hughes.
I think we can't wait that long just because of how the last couple of seasons have gone.
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40 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:
Not at you MrCanuck.....................but it serves a point, which I will now make!
It is not "Miller at 8m x 7 vs Lundkvist Chytil and a 1st."
It is "Miller at 8m x 7 vs Lundkvist Chytil, a 1st. + 8 million cap space
So what does that 8 million buy you?
Good point.
I always wanted to keep Miller and trade Bo for assets since I don't think it's a great idea to keep both.
Miller at 8 mill + 1st and prospect (Bo potential return?)
vs
Horvat at 7.5 mill + 1st, Lundkvist and Chytil
I guess it depends which one would you rather have? Technically we would be freeing up the Bo cap hit.
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3 minutes ago, GB5 said:
Who re-upped two of Bennings guys in the off season for big dollars and term instead of moving them for cap space, prospects, picks and defensive help?
It depends on your strategy. Management seems to focused on growing assets while getting younger and using that to improve the team.
Cost vs benefit of trade vs signing.
The offers for our problems were likely underwhelming, which brought more value to signing the players at certain values.
Miller at 8m x 7 vs Lundkvist Chytil and a 1st. Boeser probably was not tradeable at a 7.5aav qualifying offer.
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Why punish this management though?
They've tried to make changes but the hole was dug too deep by the previous regime with our asset and cap management.
I like the patient approach, but it definitely is time to start making some changes.
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19 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:
I would add Garland to that list. He was flying out there all game.
For sure, and actually Podkolzin as well.
We need more players that play with their heart on their sleeve.
I should say, Kuzmenko has been playing well as well.
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Like I said in the last PGT, it's not that we lost, it's how we lost.
Where is the effort in the third?
Other than Petey, what player is single handedly trying their best to will us to a win?
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Are we still hanging onto the last 57 games?
Do we really need to blow this all up?
in Canucks Talk
Posted
We could be competitive for a playoff spot if we don't blow it up and just trade for a couple of top 4 d men.
But, if we want to be contenders and have a cycle of ELCs bumping us up to contender status, then we really need to increase our asset value and minimize our poor cap value usage.
Unfortunately, the past regime handed increased poor cap usage and minimized assets, which contradict each other and hinders this management teams ability to fix one issue without depleting the other issue.
We're at a very lucky spot with this draft being touted as one of the deepest drafts in a long time (03/15 esque I'm assuming).Trade everyone 26 and up, increase your assets, drafts some gems and use free agency to supplement them.