Schedule

July 8, 2019

4 hours ago, Baggins said:

He drafted Cassels.

#wrongagain

July 7, 2019

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Why would the Panthers give a bottom pair guy the most minutes in the playoffs? Even with one injured d-man how does that make sense? one would think at least one of the three remaining top four would have more minutes.

Why would canucks give a non top pairing D like Hutton the second highest TOI for D last year? Do the team that signs Hutton this summer, do it under the impression that they are getting a top pairing D?

It’s called Context. Gudbranson is a shut down D. Mitchell, their top shutdown D was injured, thus he was forced to take on that match up role and in the end wasn’t good enough.

Campbell is a pure offensive D. Ekblad was 19. Matheson had a career 3 nhl games under his belt. Who were the panthers supposed to use for match ups? Guddy only having 27% Ozone starts clearly explains how they were using him. They went with what they had and got bounced in 6 games.

Seriously if truly are naive enough to thing 6 games defines a players role then how do you justify signing Myers to a 5 year $6 million cap. Your dumb logic would state he s a bottom pairing D since giving bottom pairing minutes. Why didn’t chairot get that kind of money. He played more minutes????

Your problem is your lack of understanding and are too simplistic in your approach with things. Context helps explains why you can’t just use top 4 TOI = top 4 D.

Quote

Grow up.

Learn something about hockey.

July 7, 2019

3 hours ago, Baggins said:

Vey had potential. Santo was what he was. It doesn't change the fact he was offered a one year deal and turned it down. He overvalued himself as shown in free agency. Nobody offered him the two year deal he was seeking. How it works out is hindsight.

Who cares about santo overvaluing himself....In hindsight it would have been better to give him his two years and not give up that 2nd round pick because vey was an absolute waste. You insinuate that santo being "it was he is" as a bad thing. He was a shootout specialist, who played up and down the line up doing what ever his coached asked...and he was a local kid to boot. He just finished coming off 15 goal 50 point pace. Him wanting that extra year hasn't stopped JB from signing a player before....Cough cough... Gagner, Beagle, Roussel, Schaller.......

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So GM's should sign players they'd rather move on from purely so they don't walk for nothing? I wonder where all those UFA's appear from every July 1st......

That has zero to do with that topic. It has to do with keeping free assets as stop gaps....removing the excuse that, you and a few other homers keep preaching ...that we needed to trade away picks to ice a "competitive" hockey team.

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It certainly doesn't make him a bottom pair d-man.

Do you not see how inconsistent you are? It's like i'm debating with a child and the sad part is, I can't tell if you light bulb hasn't clicked on yet...or if it has but you feel are in too deep not to turn back....

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Explain the logic of Guddy's playoff ice time then.

Did the panthers top shutdown guy willie Mitchell play in the playoffs? Oh wait no he was injured Would that not have meant guddy was forced into playing that shutdown role against Tavares. How did he end up doing again in those 6 games? But hey if you think 6 playoff games determine the criteria of the player you are trading for then what does that make Tyler Myers who was 6th on the Jets in defence ice time in there 6 playoff games this last post season.......Using your exact same logic. Canucks just signed bottom pairing D to a 5 year 6 million dollar contract.

I'll await for you to change the goal posts, since your cherry pick stat taken (that ignores context) can't remain consistent. haha

Quote

It was said we traded for a bottom pair d-man. We didn't.

But we did. Gudbranson wasn't a legit top 4 D. He was a bottom paring D asked to play in a bigger role, while his team was experiencing injuries. The fact that you don't understand that speaks volumes to your lack of hockey understanding....

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We traded for a top 4 d-man. How it turned out is irrelevant to why we traded for him at the time. Again, that's called hindsight.

Nothing you pointed out provided any evidence that he was a legit top 4 D. In fact when looking at your logic amongst his entire career (as I provided for you), it's overwhelming that he was not a top 4.

July 7, 2019

1 hour ago, Baggins said:

He offered Santo a one year deal but he wanted two. He let him walk and traded for Vey instead. Santo discover in free agency nobody was interested in giving him a two year deal. McCann wasn't "forced in" he beat out Vey for a spot with his play in preseason.

Santo went on to put up 33 points in 79 games and wouldn't have cost Canucks a single pick to resigning him. Vey cost Canucks a 2nd and put up worse numbers.

1 hour ago, Baggins said:

Free doesn't make you the best choice moving forward. Players are let go through free agency every year.

This statement would imply that Benning made the right choice by letting Richardson and Matthias go as UFA's? With nothing to show for it at the time or today, i would state that it wasn't the correct decision.

1 hour ago, Baggins said:

Unfortunately management, who sees a lot more of the players, rather saw it the same way. Btw, if Guddy was a bottom pair d-man you'll have to explain ice time:

Edler gets #1 D ice time for Vancouver. does that equate to him having a #1 D value around the league?

Great you found a single season where the panthers lost Mitchell to injury, forcing guddy to play in a bigger role, and you label him more than he is....Haha, by that same logic I guess hutton is a top pairing D since he 2nd on Canucks roster this year. Or does that logic only apply when you are using it as a cherry picking statement?

For the record (and even only including D who played greater than 40% of the reg seasons games)

in 2017-18 season gudbranson was 5th on canucks blueline for ice time

in 2018-19 season gudbranson was 5th on canucks blueline for ice time

In 2014-15 season gudbranson was 5th on panthers blueline for ice time

In 2013-14 season gudbranson was 5th on panthers blueline for ice time

In 2012-13 season gudbranson was 6th on panthers blueline for ice time

In 2011-12 season gudbranson was 7th on panthers blueline for ice time

I guess if he quacks like a duck and looked like a duck.......then there was be a JB white knight somewhere trying to cherry pick some stats, to justify calling him a swan.....

July 4, 2019

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

A Nylander for Ristolainen deal would make a LOT of sense for both teams other than I doubt BUF wants another Nylander

Eww. Please deleted this comment and never talk about it again. Don’t need dubas getting any ideas.

July 3, 2019

3 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

Kudos to the Rangers for their rebuild plan..However, Trouba, Panarin and Fox wanted to play in NYC (is that great GM'ing,or just down to the fact, that it's one of the greatest cities in the world?)...The Canucks (and probably 80% of the other teams were not even a consideration for Trouba or Panarin).

Winning the lottery helps (is that great GM'ing though?)

As I've discussed with another poster,I think that they have whiffed on a few of their top picks, and appear to be heading to being a team that's too good to get a high lottery pick, and not good enough to be a SC contender.

I didn’t claim any of those moves were all done by great GMing. Just stated the fact that it’s dumb to compare our rebuild to theirs. Two different start points, two different situations, two different owner focuses.

July 3, 2019

1 hour ago, N7Nucks said:

Meyers and Miller cost the same as Panarin alone. Lol.

So Panarin out produced both of them combines. And what does that have to do with another. Panarin cost around the same as eriksson as eriksson and Sutter. His still more valuable.

1 hour ago, N7Nucks said:

That first we gave up for Miller will likely be the same as the first they gave up for Trouba. Lol.

You’re right it was an extra draft pick the already obtained. Like is said. That would have been there 7th, 1st round pick they made in the last 3 years. The same number JB’s made in his entire rebuild.

1 hour ago, N7Nucks said:

They just began their rebuild and are trading picks and signing big name free agents. Lol.

Because there are were way ahead of our timeline due to the extra assets they started with. They were able to fill the cupboards much quicker with as high of quality of players much faster than we were able to. It also helps that they embraced the rebuild faster whichever save them a few years in the process. Canucks rebuild was not the bar for timeline on how long it takes to rebuild. So it’s not shocking to see other teams have a different quicker path.

1 hour ago, N7Nucks said:

The point I was making that rebuilds aren't just through the draft. Lol. And people shouldn't expect Vancouver to never sign free agents or trade picks. Lol. If you can't see that you should open your eyes. Lol.

rangers were able to trade picks because they were able to obtain extra picks. They filled there cupboards up and used the excess to fill areas of need.

July 3, 2019

7 hours ago, mll said:

I didn't think they would move on just now from Soderberg given his role. Now looking at their moves it looks like they want to take out the key guys who won't be there long term - allowing others to have the opportunity to take their minutes. Sakic btw said that it wouldn't work financially to re-sign Barrie.

Thats a huge risk before anyone’s even proven they are anywhere close to those responsibilities. It would have been like canucks trading away Sutter and not signing beagle before gaudette has even shown he’s NHL. Soderberg playing stop gap for atleast another year makes the most sense.

7 hours ago, mll said:

Those 2 NHL coaches seem to think he can. The season of his 30 goals there were headlines of how he was excelling in a shutdown role. Wouldn't know but not sure it matters for Colorado - they seem more focused on finding a 2nd line that can score consistently.

I’m personal friends with a former and a current NHL head coaches so I know I wouldn’t take everything they say as gospel.

7 hours ago, mll said:

They might have simply decided to split Soderberg's duties - they added Bellemare.

Sakic: "Pierre-Edouard is a very good defensive forward and penalty killer who is also strong on faceoffs," said Avalanche Executive Vice President / General Manager Joe Sakic. "He brings added leadership and a veteran presence to our team."

It’s counter intuitive to state that they want the kids to step up and play key roles only to replace soderberg with an older less productive vet.

7 hours ago, mll said:

Sakic initially said that Jost could play C2 and was going to give an increased roles to their young Cs. Now he says Jost will move to wing and maybe with Kadri. Their beat writer Ryan S. Clark has the following lineup:

Landeskog MacKinnnon Rantanen

Jost Kadri Burakovsky

Wilson Compher Donskoi

Nieto Bellemare Calvert

Now imagine that line up with soderberg as 3C. tbh That line up does really isn’t any more impressive than what they iced last season.

Landy mac rantanen

Jost soderberg kerfoot

wilson compher calvert

nieto brassard andrighetto

Kerfoot > donskoi

burakovsky > Calvert.

So really like I said they are banking on players having break out seasons mixed with hope that others are able to hit highs they reached in the past.

Too much risk and Avs could easily take a step back this season.

July 3, 2019

18 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Rangers trade a first and a decent young d-man for Trouba and throw 7 years nearly 82mil at a winger 3 years into a rebuild nobody bats an eye. Canucks trade a 1st, potentially 2 years from now, for a 26 year old top 6 Center/winger after 5 years of sucking and Canuck fans lose their minds.

If you can’t tell the difference between trouba and panarin vs Myers and milller you might want to open your eyes. lol. If Canucks could have landed those two players there would be cheering on the streets here.

Also rangers have had as many top 90 picks in the last 3 years than canucks have in the last 5 years combined. They made 6 first round picks in three seasons. JB’s made 7 in his 6 years he’s been here.

In the last 3 months rangers added fox, kakko, trouba, and panarin. I think it’s safe to say there rebuild was isn’t anywhere near comparable to ours.

July 2, 2019

3 hours ago, D-Money said:

Agreed. I don't get the people who think Colorado did poorly here. Unless they 1) are biased against Kadri as a player, or 2) think Kerfoot will be well worth what he'll be getting in arbitration (spoiler: he won't...he's essentially their forward version of Hutton - maybe they'll re-sign him for cheap, or maybe he'll clean up at arb and they'll let him walk).

Barrie is obviously the best player, but it's 1 year of him at a reasonable rate, then either pay through the nose for a 29 year-old, or let him walk for nothing.

I wouldn't have liked it if Benning traded the 1st from the Miller trade for one year of Barrie. And, even if you don't like him, Kadri is at least = Miller.

I really liked the route the Av’s were going. I just don’t really like the direction they have taken this years as much. I feel like they had there glimpse of success while getting on a hot streak and got under the belief they are a lot closer than they really are, a few tweaks away. This is very similar to what the oilers did their first off season after making the post season. They shipped out players of need and replaced them with areas they thought would make them stronger in the post season, not realizing the players they moved were huge key’s to their success.

Moving Barrie was the right move and using him to fill a 2nd line center was what they needed to do. I just don’t know if Kadri is that player I would have went after and I for sure wouldn’t have moved out a 42 point player in Kerfoot in the process. Av’s need more scoring and they need to spread it out.

Even if you look at the players in verse out have they really added that much?

Kadri 43 points, Soderberg 49 points

Donskoi 37 points, Kerfoot 42 points

Makar ? points, Barrie 59 points

So really the Burakovsky’s 25 point season is all they added. They are really banking on Jost, Makar, Compher, Girad having break out years to pick up the needed offence. They are also banking on Grubauer to be able to handle the number 1 role after loosing Varlamov who played he majority of the games last season. They better hope that MacKinnon and Rantanen can at least match their previous season totals. Av’s were a bubble playoff team last year and were two wins away from missing, while they have some real promise I think they are banking on too much on best case scenario.

July 2, 2019

9 hours ago, mll said:

The 2 seasons before they added Tavares were his 2 x 32 goal seasons. In 2016/17 he had zone starts of 37% and in 2017/18 zone starts of 40% compared to 52% last season. In 2016/17 he was 2nd in the number of D-zone face-offs and in 2017/18 he took the most D-zone face-offs.

With regards to Kadri being able to replace Soderberg, it really not even that close. Soderberg, that guy was an absolute beast and did everything they could ask of him. He played 60% Dzone starts, lead the team in PK ice time amongst forwards. He literally took 80% (220 out of 275) of all Av’s PK faceoffs last year. And on top of that he still put up 20 goals, 50 points. And 79% of his offense in the last 3 years has came while playing even strength. While yes he will be 34 in October he’s not a player you walk away from. He was that foundational player we hoped Sutter to be and sorry Kadri is not even close to being that player. Kadri is an effective player, jut not a shutdown guy.

For comparisons sake, In the last 3 years Kadri has played a grand total of 4:42 on the PK and has taken a whopping 6 faceoffs. Again that’s the SUM of 3 years not game average. While yes he did put up two 32 goal seasons, 40% of that production came while playing on the top power play unit. He was given low Ozone starts the two previous years but he was far the go to shutdown player. In 2016-17, Komarov took just as many Dzone draws as well as had just as low of ozone starts. Leafs also went out and picked up Boyle to fill that role a the TD. In 2017-18, It’s bit out of context to use Kadri’s 40% ozone starts as correlating him to a shutdown guy that year as the only 4 forwards received higher than 50% ozone starts. Marleau Martin, Moore, Kapanen, Komarov all received under 43% ozone starts, Heck even Nylander only got 47%.

Then after Tavares signed his role change, Kadri got higher ozone starts and less of a role on the top PP unit (despite getting higher PP TOI) and his numbers dropped. Kadri could be an affective second line center, but if the Av’s are expecting him to be an upgrade or a close replacement for that shutdown center role they gave up in Soderberg they are in for a rude awakening. Had they kept Soderberg this would be less of an issue, but they really don’t have anyone (today) that can fill that role.

July 2, 2019

2 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

Let's extract this part, because it's unproven:

"than what we could have picked up through free agency, without the loss of valuable rebuilding assets"

We don't know who we could have "picked up" because you don't just "pick". These are negotiations and players get to decide where they want to go and why.

Not sure what’s up with the Necro bump but you went off and a very long tangent that had zero relevance to my point and the funniest part is your opinion was so easily debunk that I didn’t even know if it dignifies a response.

July 2, 2019

1 hour ago, mll said:

Sakic is still in a building mindset and President Josh Kroenke seems to agree. He gave a lengthy interview at the end of the season and talks of how their young players still have to learn consistency and the team as well. He praised the Girard-Makar pairing but also says they are going to need more time.

And remember when you kept saying that they weren’t going to trade Barrie.....Pretty sure I told you he was on the move....

Av’s are a favorite just like the oilers were a few years ago. Doesn’t mean much. Without soderberg, Barrie varlamov and Kerfoot. They are really banking on the free agent signings along Jost and there young D to step up. Because if they don’t. Avs will be taking a step back this year. Heck grubauer has never played more than 40 games in a season.

They really now are throwing Makar and Girad into the deep and hoping they swim. As much as sakic can say they need more time. They also need offense to replace Barrie. There other D aren’t capable.

July 2, 2019

Podkolzin played on the same team as him last year......Well for 3 games But they should have some familiarity together. I would be willing to take a flyer on him as he's an extremely offensive talent. Wonder what the asking price would be? He's apparently looking for more than 2 million per season

July 2, 2019

22 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I'm honestly surprised you'd agree that Sakic got wrecked in this deal, despite being a COL fan.

People talk about Benning being bad at trades and FA signings... this is EASILY Sakic's worst transaction. I am just puzzled by how an apparently smart man like Sakic would make such a horrendous, high risk trade such as this that he didn't need to do - AND for KADRI for crying out loud.

You guys didn't need Kadri at all.

Awful awful trade.

What Av's needed to do this year was bump Soderberg down to a 3rd line role and move Barrie out for a legit 2nd line center and add some scoring wingers. I was pushing for moving barrie to oilers for RNH. But Av's picked up Burakovsky and Dosnkoi which i thought were good moves but then moving out Soderberg for a 3rd? And then this move for Kadri....after Kerfoot has gotten off to a great pro career start? Not sure what is going on? He must be banking on Kadri getting back to his 30 goal seasons. Don't know if he will.

Lot's of people were calling for Sakic not too long ago, but then he his a homerun on dealing duchene and I think that bought him some time. If Av's take a step back this year I think the heat will be back on.

July 2, 2019

3 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

Ok, cap is staying the same next year. Barrie had no interest in an extension with Colorado.

You basically proved his point. You are full of it..

"I love it here. I’ve been here my whole career and I’d like to be a part of it going forward. But at the end of the day, that’s up to management and where they see this going. That’s probably a conversation for a later date. But this is the second home for me. It’s become home. I spend a lot of time here. I love the guys. I love the organization. At the end of the day, it’s a business. But I do love it here."

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2019/03/tyson-barrie-hopes-to-sign-contract-extension-this-summer.html

The only reason av's moved his is because it makes no sense locking in a high cap, long term with Barrie when they have Makar who is 2.0 version.....and they also just added Byram. Barrie loved it in Colorado

July 2, 2019

3 hours ago, goblix said:

Agreed... they traded out Soderberg and now Kerfoot and Barrie which were #4/5/6 on their top scorers of their season... on a team struggling for secondary scoring....

out: Barrie / Kerfoot / Soderberg

in: Donskoi / Kadri / Burakovsky

also not sure how Leafs are going to sign Kerfoot, Ceci and Marner with 11 mil in cap space

Leafs have 16.3 million in space. Horton goes on IR giving them another 5 to use

July 2, 2019

3 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Kadri can play match up, hard minutes against both big and fast pivots. I am not talking about his cheap shots. Its also a good trade for Colorado.

He's a good defensive forward. Kills penalties. He is exactly what Colorado needed.

I think you're mistaking Kadri with someone else. He doesn't play shutdown at all. He still got 51% ozone starts and played 1:11 total all year with leafs on the PK. That's TOTAL. He average 1 second per game on the PK. Kapanen, Brown, Marleau, Marner, Tavares and Hyman all took more Dzone faceoffs than Kadri. Even Matthews averaged more. Kadri is about a far away from being a shut down center as Petey.

Colorado had Soderberg who was unreal in that position. He played 60% Dzone start, averaged 2:38 on the PK per game and still put up 50 points. In terms of shut down Kadri is a massive down grade on Soderberg who they moved out for a 3rd round pick. Sakic has made some strange moved this offseason and it's not for the better.

July 2, 2019

3 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

Barrie was leaving in FA better to get something over nothing.

Sakic got destroyed. Are you telling me that Barrie and Kerfoot in a package couldn't get you more than Kadri and a 3rd? Either you value Kadri way too much or your obsession for leafs hate is clouding any sound reasoning you might have.

Leafs dumped a pest that struggles to play any actual games in the post season, with a younger, faster, less douchey version. Both played 3rd line center, both didn't get used on PK, but both got 2nd line PP minutes and both players produce 40-45 points. Then on top of that they got a a huge upgrade on D who just put 60 points last year to go along with their other D who put up 70 points. And Barrie is right shot to boot. AND they got Av's to retain cap hit to help them keep Marner.... Regardless if they don't even sign him, Kadri for Kerfoot isn't that far off in value but they still get a full year of Barrie while the leafs window is wide open. They likely move Nylander next year or next off season to free up some more cap and potentially allow them to retain barrie.....

Either way, like I said even if he is a rental, they didn't give up much to get a full year for him. Teams at TD pay a lot more for less than 2 months of hockey. Leafs easily won this deal.

July 1, 2019

9 minutes ago, shiznak said:

We can’t even if we wanted to. We loss our own first round pick in the Miller trade.

The only player I would give up 4 1st rounders for is Marner.

Yes we can actually. The 4 picks can be any of the next 5 years.

July 1, 2019

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Sure...with our non existent pick next year. Go ahead, offer sheet away

Can be any of the next 5 years.

June 29, 2019

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

He's 'ok' defensively. He certainly shouldn't be the main match up guy, which he has been in BUF and would not be here. They're also not a team that supports the puck very well, either forwards or defense, so view his 'poor' numbers in that context.

So partly that he's not built for the role and partly BUF factor.

Playing in a less demanding, offensive role here, I think he would flourish. But by all means I hope Benning is playing up his green jacket +/- to lower the price

And he’s only 24. It’s not like he’s peaked yet. He’s got a lot of room to grow still.

June 29, 2019

1 hour ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

Yes thank god I actually look at stats and player information before I make comments. Try it some time!

What was drew doughty plus minus last year?.

Guess he’s not a top pairing D either. Looking at stats and understand the meaning of the are two different things.

June 28, 2019

1 hour ago, timberz21 said:

You just said, they are not a playoff contending team.... how long are you going to “wait” and let it figure it out themselves??? Seems like you be ready to miss the playoff for 2020 and 2021. That’s a lot of losing

They are already progressing on their own. Again Hughes has player FIVE NHL games. Let him develop and as he gets better so will the team. Pettersson played ONE season and just turned 20. Let him continue with the upward progressing. Assuming that they aren't good enough to carry us is next season while not handcuffing us.

1 hour ago, timberz21 said:

what if 2020 is a bad draft year and nobody becomes impact players. JB has been really good at drafting, but eventually he will have bad luck or a bad year... what then? Wait another year?

"The 2020 Draft class is looking like a well-rounded class in that there is a more even spread of talent throughout the leagues than what we've seen the past couple seasons," director of NHL Central Scouting Dan Marr said. "While there is top talent in every draft class, the past couple years have been lean years in certain leagues and in 2020 the initial view is that there is more depth to the Draft and it's spread all throughout North America."

https://www.nhl.com/news/alexis-lafreniere-headlines-2020-nhl-draft-prospects/c-308003352

1 hour ago, timberz21 said:

Like I said, I never said boeser will be trash at 28. But most likely his best year will be at 25-26-27 years old. By definition if your not at your peak your on the decline... do I need to draw you a bell curve to show you this. He will still be a good player, just not at his prime anymore.

Sure, give me a curve graph of Henrik and Daniels peak years.....

1 hour ago, timberz21 said:

anyways, clearly we don’t see eye to eye on this but IMO I’d rather be proactive when we have a solid core and keep buildimg on this than wait for more unknown draft pick.

Canucks have a good core and players in the cupboard but it's far too early to know what are holes are. The majority of them haven't even got their feet wet in the NHL. Why give up picks and cap to players that could have been spent else where. By this time next year Jake could make miller expendable, or Woo/Tryamkin could be impact players making a big myers signing not necessary or heck maybe a player like hughes doesn't turn out that pick could have been better spent on filling a more impactful role. I know that this team needs a #2/3 right shot D if we ever want to be taken serious and that D doesn't exist in UFA this year. So want try and force a square peg into a round hole locking up cap preventing us from going after a big legit fish when we realize it's what this team is missing.

June 28, 2019

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Quick. Trot out an " I was an AJHL star my family are oil barons farmers and fought all 9 world war stories so I'm smarter than you" stories again

We love those

Coming from the guy who clearly failed grade 10 social studies but thinks he's the residency expert because you've read a few CBC reports. it's funny what you said earlier ....."There is just so much bloody stupid...that it makes me weep for our education system because at days end, it obviously failed at some point" because I feel exactly this every time you talk politics. And you are so far lost/stubborn that it's not worth time correcting you. Just got to sit back, shake my head and laugh.

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Wait no, do "Makar will never be anything" again

When did i say that? Oh yeh I didn't, i said I didn't think he was worth a top 10 pick, which i've "admitted I was wrong about". Something you lack the maturity to do. Just shows who's got better character.

PS found this part very funny.

4 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Any time someone uses the words Putin and wise man then blames liberalism for the western worlds problems I check out.

3 pages later you're still going on about it.......So much for checking out.

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