ForsbergTheGreat
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Posts posted by ForsbergTheGreat
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11 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:
How are they going to do that when they have $13.5mil - $7mil for Johnsson and Kapanen leaving $6.5 mil to sign 5 more players? Sure they might trade Zaitsev but he needs to be replaced, and that defence is an absolute wasteland right now. And as was mentioned by another, they do not even have their 1st so any offer sheets are going to be for lower-level players. Oh, won't that make Boy Dubas popular around the league, throwing around offer sheets at other teams' RFAs...
I challenge to do the math again. I ignored it the first time you posted this but the fact that you keep posting it shows you don’t understand. There’s one important piece you keep missing.... I believe in you.. you will figure it out.
Like I said. Some people get a high stewing over the leafs. “What will they do with their cap. They are so screwed, might as well drop out of the league entirely”.
....Hey that is fun.
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6 minutes ago, oldnews said:
What?
Reilly ____
Muzzin____(Zaitsev)
Dermott______
Top four is what builds contenders. They are one shutdown RHD from having a solid top 4
QuoteThat is one shutdown D from 'really contending"?
Wow.
That is one less Hainsey, one Zaitsev cap dump, and no real RHD - closer to a a desertified right side than 'really contending'
They need to make 3 moves there - and that assumes Dermott progresses/is sufficient.
Look around the league. A strong top four defines contending D. No team has 6 superstars on the back end. Bruins iced Clifton and grzelcyk as there bottom pairing. sufficient bottom depth is extremely easy to fill as a extremely low cost.
QuoteAdditionally you propose letting Marner go - and offer-sheeting an Aho - as if Carolina wouldn't match?
if it’s front loaded there’s a good chance they don’t.
QuoteSorry - I can't take your assessement - or your plan - seriously.
Not shocking. You take offense against anything that doesnt align with your leafs are doomed mantra. It was less than 12 month ago you were preaching the same thing saying leafs would regress and not be in post season due to the loss of JVR and bozak.
I get it. They are a easy team to dislike and it’s a canucks board but that doesn’t mean understanding of the sport has to go out the window. It’s like some people get a high trying to come up with ways to imagine the leafs going back to the paper bag days.
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5 minutes ago, Maketherightmove said:
Sure, but losing Marner or AM significantly changes their roster. They need to somehow shed salary (Nylander would be the ideal candidate for them) and add a top defenseman without messing with their core. That's pretty difficult to do, especially since they don't have first round picks or recent top end prospects that they've drafted.
If they lose Marner they aren’t going to sit around with all the extra cap space. They are going to spend it. Likely on one of the other big name RFA’s this year.
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28 minutes ago, oldnews said:
I have to wonder if the Leafs fan base - understandably - has the stomach for losing a Marner to future picks at this stage.
You just spend a 1st to rid Marleau. A first on an expiring Muzzin.
Now if you let Marner walk for futures - what happens if the Leafs slide and that Marleau 1st becomes much higher than they anticipated?
If they left Marner walk they are just going to sit on there hands and do nothing. they would have just gained 4 first round picks and opened up a ton of cap space to say... front load offer sheet another player on the market. Say someone like Aho and bank the two extra first round picks they would have obtained.
While moving Marleau did cost them a late first. They were able to keep both kapanen and jonhsson which i would say has more value than that 1st.
The leafs are really a shutdown D away from really contending and they have more then enough assets to obtain that type of player.
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42 minutes ago, Silver Ghost said:
They easily could have moved a player in spite of a ntc though. Miller was the easiest option for sure but probably only because he could return something decent while also shedding cap space.
Easily. Tell that to vbrata, hamhuis, and edler. Miller was the easiest option. I get what you are saying but as I already pointed out, It made total sense for them to move out a high cap hit with no NTC, that they weren't utilizing to the fullest.
42 minutes ago, Silver Ghost said:I don't think the Canucks could have paid much less tbh. They really didn't pay a super high price with all the conditions on that pick. It was fair value imo, even considering TB cap situation.
I bet we could have go them down to this years second, But like I said were really pulling hairs.
But if you believe that his market value is worth a late first then The conditions don’t benefit canucks. In fact it lowered the real market value of our pick. Certainty of the pick holds more value than uncertainty. Tampa is the one who benefits from the conditions as they took a market value and added higher potential. Either way they get a 1st round pick and now they added potential for and even higher value.
The other person who benefits from conditions is JB.
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6 hours ago, Silver Ghost said:
I didn't say they were going to trade core players lol.
They could have traded pretty much anyone other than their core group that had a bigger cap hit to achieve a similar result. They chose a guy thaf could get them a reasonable return that was reasonably expendable to their team. Notice i saud TO THEIR TEAM. Doesnt make him an expendable or throwaway player. I am positive the Lightning wish they could have kept him.
Not really Kucherov and miller were the only two players making over 2 million that don’t have a NTC or NMC. And they for sure aren’t trading the leagues leading scorer. That basically summed up which player was getting dealt
Whether anyone wants to accept it or not bolts needed to move cap out. Point is going to get a huge raise and vaseliskiy is up for an extension as of July 1st. They are a team strapped for cash even after letting stralman walk and getting a pass on Callahan.
Miller was the lowest man on the totem block and he wasn’t being effectively used to his potential either simply due to bolts depth. Which makes sense on why they were moving him.
Did bolts get top value for him. For sure they did. They were able to take a negative situation and walk away with a big smile. Could canucks have paid less. Possibly, but I don’t know if it’s worth splitting hairs over.
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2 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:
If we were back in 2011 I would have done it in a heartbeat as a player like JT Miller could have put us over the top for the cup. Back then we never could properly get a couple extra top 6 players to get us over the top.
You mean like when we traded for a 26 year old power forward who also averaged 20+ goal, 49 point pace seasons by the name of David booth?
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1 hour ago, EdgarM said:
I think you are underestimating Hughes and since when does the success or failure of a team fall completely on 1 defenseman?
Hughes is a great piece.
1 hour ago, EdgarM said:So when a team makes it to the final and they lose their top dman to injury they should just forfeit the rest of the games?
Sorry but that is a completely stupid statement. Why would a team forfeit?
Are you disagreeing that a teams chances of winning doesn’t decrease if their #1 D goes down?
1 hour ago, EdgarM said:The 2011 Canucks and teams like TB does not guarantee you anything and teams like St. Louis and Vegas in their first year prove anything is possible depending on the 23 players on your roster.
What does this have to do with canucks need for a core D? Did you happen to see what’s the blues back end look like?
1 hour ago, EdgarM said:I think the "Tank" philosophy has been proven ridiculous and the teams "Character" composition has a far more impact on a teams success in the playoffs then just pure talent alone.
Now you’re really on the loose end. What does this have to do with tanking?
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38 minutes ago, theo5789 said:
Fair enough point. We don't know who's actually available to help us on the back end and maybe Benning had inquired about the cost to acquire one and it was simply too steep.
That’s true as we don’t know what else JB has cooking and perhaps another trade is in the works. I just feel it’s going to be hard to make a deal without one of our best valued assets.
I also have a feeling that we are going to take what D are available in UFA and try to force one of them into being the core player we need. Which usually doesn’t turn out well.
QuoteMiller might only be a strong complimentary piece, but if it helps elevate our youth, is that so bad?
It depends on how much it elevates the team. I have a hard time seeing this roster make that much of a playoff splash without that top end D core. So if this move hinders our ability to fill a bigger area of need then it’s not great. But again we will have to see what JB is able to fetch this summer.
QuoteWe are looking at what should be a mid-late 1st as the condition is set which IMO is not a discounted value. I don't think we get a "core" dman under the same conditions without adding even more.
Nope we for sure likely have to add more. But that 1st is a big value and usually a starting point. We don’t have that starting point anymore.
QuoteAll I know is we were looking for more grit in the top 6 with speed and skill and we found a guy here. We don't know what the market is like down the road and who might even be available to fill the same role. Benning found a guy that he feels will be a good fit with his age and style of play and is signed to a reasonable deal through some of his best prime years.
I agree we need to get bigger and that’s why a player like miller will be a great fit. Just not sure if we are at the point to be moving picks to fill that hole when other areas have bigger urgency.
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9 hours ago, theo5789 said:
Waiting for a UFA may not net you the player that you want. It may end in a bidding war and end up overpaying for their services.
I get your point, but to get a guy of his calibre at his age and contract. And for the record, I don't think Benning is suggesting the rebuild is over, but I believe the team has been trending exactly how I felt it should be so far where we were fighting for a wild card spot last season and either still in the wild card hunt or just squeaking into a playoff spot this upcoming season. If we miss the playoffs again, no harm no foul and I think we surely make the playoffs at the very least in the following year.
I get the concern about the D and there's still a long summer ahead, so we will see if and how that will get addressed. We could easily address the defense issue through UFA but it's the same concern as the forwards in that they likely get overpaid for what they bring and that's if they even choose you to sign with.
Actually I think you're missing the point. Players like Miller are strong complimentary guys. They are your, Coyle's, Johansson's, Kane's and Hossa's. Players that aren't core foundation pieces, but pieces that help push your core over the top into the next level. And Canucks are not at that spot yet. We still have missing pieces in our core. aka our back end. And You're not getting a core defensemen in UFA, Myers and Gardiner aren't those types (they are miller caliber complementary pieces). Canucks NEED a core piece on that back end. A D you can build around.
So instead of trading our most attractive piece at a discounted value for a complimentary filler, we should have been using that to obtain that missing core D. I'm not against trading our first, but at this point we don't have a ton of tradable assets, so the ones we do have, need to go towards packaging up and filling core pieces.
In two years if Canucks are back in the playoff spot and looking for a player to get us over the hump. Then you go get that complimentary player (like Gillis thought he was doing with Booth).
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Took some time to sit on this and think about it.
Looks like JB is on the clock, claiming the rebuild is over and he's banking on the team having major progression over the next two seasons.
Overall JT is still young and locked up on a decent cap hit, so the first question is, was he worth a first? The answer is.....yes he probably is....
But the question canucks fans need to be asking is....Is that a price we can afford to make?....And that answer is....we will see, personally i'm not a big fan of moving picks that far into the future..There are too many variables to go against you. Reason being, you immediately loose value on that pick and going forwards Tampa bay gets to play with house money.
Canucks aren't a JT miller away from being a contender. We aren't a JT miller away from even being a playoff lock. We still have some major missing pieces and it starts with that D core. That is the position canucks needed to be looking to move assets for to improve. Not the nice to have player like Miller.. Realistically the Miller player is the type you look to find in UFA. This year it's Dzingel, Nyquist, Lee, Ferklund and Connolly that fill a similar roll and likely for a similar price tag (maybe slightly higher). Going after a player like that in UFA allows you to use those value assets to move for a bigger need... a need that you can't typically (and wont this year) fill from UFA.
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43 minutes ago, Odjick29willkillyou said:
Dude....
Brah...
43 minutes ago, Odjick29willkillyou said:They can play opposite sides so it is quite possible that QH plays 4-6 pairing minutes this season and moves up to 1-2 pairing next. It is also possible that they play on opposite sides of the PP.
You need variation on a d pairing. You can’t have two players who are small and limited defensively playing together or you’d get picked apart.
43 minutes ago, Odjick29willkillyou said:And if you watched Barrie in the POs you would see that his TOI was much higher than Johnson who was 2nd on the blueline. Hence, "tough minutes."
TOI doesn’t represent tough minutes. Haha that’s hilarious.
in the playoffs Barrie averaged 4:36 PP TOI while getting 56% offensive zone starts. He played a whopping 8 seconds short handed per game.
Johnson only average 19 seconds of PP TOI and he lead the team in SH TOI averaging 3:32 per game. and he only got 43% ozone starts. .
But yeah. You’re right Barrie was giving the “tough minutes” lol
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16 minutes ago, Odjick29willkillyou said:
Dude this will be Quinn's first full rookie year so having someone like Barrie in front of him should be good as he will not be on the ice more than he needs to be. Let him skate on the 2nd pairing with someone like Edler or Tanev while Barrie eats those tough minutes. Hell, Makar is arguably a better dman than him with a similar path and he was skating behind Barrie in COL.
Dude....
If Canuck trade that high price for Barrie it’s not for a single year. They would do it with full intentions of locking him up long term
Barrie eats those tough minutes. Haha yeah. 4 min of pp time with 60% Ozone starts scream tough.
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30 minutes ago, Odjick29willkillyou said:
Can you truly say that Hughes is a star in such a small sample size? Not trying to be a naysayer, but the only star we have is EP40. He is projected to that, but so was Radek Bonk and Alex Daigle. We know what Barrie is and that is a bonafide 1-2 dman.
No I can’t say he will but I do know it will be 10x harder for him to achieve that when another player in in-front of him taking the prime offensive starts.
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29 minutes ago, Pears said:
Can never have too many defensemen, especially ones of Barrie’s calibre.
Actually that kind of the point I am making. There’s only so many minutes in a game. With Barrie commanding 65% ozone starts along with his 4:00 average pp TOI. It doesn’t leave much room for a 6th overall pick we invested in last summer. Rosters need variety, different skill sets to fill different holes. That’s one of the biggest reason why the Avs are will to part with Barrie... because they have Makar.
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5 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:
Barrie is 28 though....
And one year to a UFA where he will be commanding long term around 9 mil.
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As talented as Barrie is. We already have a star puck moving PPQB in our system. And since we have Brock and EP as trigger men on opposite sides it leave only one spot open. Hughes should be that guy.
Id rather spend that type of value on a player who can fill holes in our line up.
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1 hour ago, Wolfgang Durst said:
@Prospects_Watch: Elliotte Friedman said on Sportsnet that he’s heard the Vancouver Canucks (No. 10) may be looking to swap picks and have talked to the Detroit Red Wings at No. 6 and Buffalo Sabres at No. 7. The Canucks are being very active.
I could see a swap with Detroit. Polkozin is a top 3 talent but is likely going to drop due to his Russian factor. Yzerman is not afraid to take Russians so he might as well move down, pick up an extra asset and still get the guy he wants.
Question is how much is JB willing to give up in order to move up?
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16 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:
When the trend stretches across 8 years and three separate leagues, chances are there's a little more too it than "He was just playing for a bad team".
You might want to do more research on your so call trend.
His 2011-12 season he was a 16 year old playing in a men’s league. And his team was brutal. Only one player on the roster was +. 29 other players were minus.
His 2012-13 he was a 17 year old playing not just playing in a league of men. But a lock out season were he was playing against full time NHLers. His team ended up second last in the league.
He then made the jump into the Ahl as an 18 year. He was only a -2. Big whoop. He also got called up and played in the nhl on a Sabre’s team that ended up dead last pushing for mcdavid. They finished with 21 wins.
The 14-15 Sabre’s weren’t any better. Another dead last finish with 23 wins this time.
In 15-16 he was 21 and he finished 10th overall in TOI. Sabre’s improved to 35 wins but still were a bottom 10 team.
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1 hour ago, mll said:
Sakic wants a hockey trade but I don't think Holland is interested in making that kind of move right now. He admits not knowing his roster very well. He talks of how he only has 3 top-6 Fs and sees one of them on the wing. I just don't see him making that kind of move when he doesn't know the team and who is coming up through the system. The coach is also new.
Holland will have to make a decision. He also didn’t know what the market would look like at the time of him making those statements. When a need like barrie comes available things change.
RNH and barrie are only two years apart. RNH is also looking for a raise and extension as early as next year. So this really doesn’t affect there building process. It just swaps players in order to fill a bigger team need.
1 hour ago, mll said:Barrie might prefer to sign with a contender than a team that is still a big question mark as Holland cleans things up.
Not many contenders are going to have the cap space to give him all of his demands. With holland now in charge Edmonton would be as good as choice as any. And again. Playing with McDavid is a HUGE draw.
1 hour ago, mll said:It doesn't even really make sense for Colorado to trade him. They have cap space and he fits really well with their team. Johnson is slowing down and Barrie is only 27. Timmins might not even be a player. Can they really that easily replace him.
Lebrun just confirmed that they are now fielding offers.
It makes a ton of sense for them to move on. He’s a UFA in 12 months and is going to command huge cap and term. He currently at his highest peak in trade value. And on top of that they have a younger replica of him, with a higher ceiling in there system. The closer they get to ufa with him the less his value is.
I still say they wait till after draft, continue negotiations to see how much of a pay cut he’s willing to take and then make a decision. If he’s looking high and long term they move on. And if they move on oilers will be in hot pursuit.
QuoteThey are picking 4th this draft and there are several Cs available.
Assuming hawks take a center, byram is BPA. Sakic has shown that he’ll take BPA over team need in the first round. In fact here’s what Alan Happle, avs director of amateur scouting had to say.
“He’s the new-age defensemen here in the National Hockey League,” Hepple said. “He skates, he moves the puck, his puck management is unbelievable. His sense for the game — he’s got that little bite in his game, that grit, that I think is important … He’s not going to be stopped. This kid is really good.”
“We give (general manager) Joe (Sakic) the list and then he makes the call at the end of the day — especially the top-end picks, based on the fact that he knows them, that he’s seen them,” Hepple said. “Down the road, yeah, we need forwards right now but by the time some of these kids are ready to play we might need defensemen again. So it will be the best player (available), no matter, at 1 and 16.”
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25 minutes ago, mll said:
Holland wants to build a contender for the long term. They are not 1 player away.
I dont think oilers would be foolish enough to think barrie turn them into a contender. He’s 28 years old. Trading and signing him is a long term move. It would be no different than canucks showing interest in him.
25 minutes ago, mll said:In Detroit he was also forced to hand out unreasonable contracts because they had no one coming. Can't see him putting himself in that situation. Sakic in May said he was going to talk to Barrie about an extension - for him to be now available suggest that they don't agree on the numbers.
The landscape has changed since May. as Elliot Friedman stated. barrie has to be one of the happiest people after seeing that Karlsson contract. He’s going to get paid and paid big. He also stated that sakic is talking about his options and said if they do it, it will be a hockey move. That would mean they are open to the idea.
25 minutes ago, mll said:Holland needs players that want to be in Edmonton and not end up overpaying them to retain them. He also needs more players coming up through the system.
Its Edmonton. No one wants to play and live in that city. But with that said. I’m sure playing on the PP with the games best player sure would help ease his pain.
25 minutes ago, mll said:If they want Barrie they can always try next year in free agency rather than give up an asset.
Sure but there are no guarantees that he’s still available. The team that trades for him could sign him before he hits UFA.
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1 hour ago, mll said:
Will Barrie want to extend in Edmonton and do they have the cap space.
Holland talks of how they only have 3 top-6 Fs - RNH, Draisaitl and McDavid. He says either RNH or Draisaitl will play C2 and the other will be on wing. They are apparently looking to move a D to create room for Ds coming up through their system.
Mcdavid #1 and Leon #2 is a strong as it gets down the middle. They will need to be able to spread out the offense. With marody, Yamamoto and benson developing well in the A and potentially a ufa signing. (Aka Connolly type) they should be able to find enough weapons to support the two offensive lines.
With persson making the move over they have too many players on the back end, so they should look at moving D.
Russell, sekera and manning are expendable. Benning is even being rumored to be available. But I also heard Holland like sekera and see’s him as a kronwall type vet.
As far as resigning him they should be able to. Gagner and manning are gone next year opening up 5.5 mil. Then Russell and sekera come off the books the year later along with pouliots buy out giving them another 11 mill in space. And really nurse is the only current player due for a big raise in the next two years.
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27 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:
It does make some sense if Colorado is confident in getting Byram. Canucks have been connected to wanting him for at least a couple years now. Barrie has a year left after which he is likely going to be paid big. Would be another small guy along with Stecher and Hughes, but that's the way things seem to be going. Big question of course -- what's the cost? Maybe Stecher has to go back, along with a high pick and a good forward, or maybe he's told them he intends to go UFA and we can eke out a Trouba-like trade.
Sakic has stated that if they do move Barrie it’s going to be a hockey trade. They don’t likely want picks since they already have 5 in the top 90 this year.
Avs biggest need is a #2 center. Assuming they take byram.and not turcotte or dach. It’s the position they will be looking to fill. Which means we’re out of that race unless we’re willing to part with a core player.
They have makar, timmins meloche in there system for upcoming d which make sense to why they are looking at their options right now. And as Friedman stated a few nights ago. Av have to be considering the number he will be looking for. If karlsson gets 92 million over 8 years. Then barrie (a right shot puck moving D who puts up 55-60 points) is not going to be cheap either. Likely looking in the 8.5-9 range long term.
Ive said it before but oilers make the most sense. Barrie for RNH. Which fills both teams needs.
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48 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:Just for some context, Risto had the worst +/- in the league last season, and it wasn't particularly close.
Last season he had the 18th worst +/- in the league.
He's a -142 in 5 and a half seasons in the NHL.
-142
I don’t think it’s very fair to hold his plus minus as a huge negative against him. It sort of comes with the territory of playing on a bad team. Especially with good players who are counted on in all situations. Kopitar was a -44 in his first 3 season. Bergeron was a -20 in his first three season, Drew Doughty was a -33 this last season, Keith was a -29 last year and even Karlsson was a -36 during his tenor in Ottawa.
While yes in the last 3 years, Risto’s +/- has been the worst in the league with a -75. In that same time he also put up 129 points in 230 games. For comparison sake, in that same time frame Ekman-Larsson was a -69 and put up slightly less offence with 125 points in 242 games. Damon Severson was a -66 and only put up 94 points in 238 games. In fact out of the 15 D who were -30 or worse in that time frame, only Barrie (who was a -52) had better offensive numbers with 154 points in 220 games…..But Barrie also had 60% ozone starts (compared to Risto only getting 47%)
Risto is a top pairing D who logs 25+ min and already has four 40+ seasons before his 25thbirthday. While he might not be worth backing up the whole truck for, he would be a huge addition. Add in he’s a right shot D, who’s locked in for another 3 years at a only 5.4 cap hit. He fits this teams needs perfectly.
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[Trade] Lightning trade J.T. Miller to Canucks for Marek Mazanec, 2019 3rd-round pick, 2020 conditional 1st-round pick
in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Posted
What part of they are one shut down D away, does not make sense to you.
I seriously don’t know how you take what I said and equate that to going back with the same D core? Oldnews time hasn’t been good to you.
How could they improve? Guess they are now forced to not make anymore transactions from here on out. Cool story.