ForsbergTheGreat

Phil Housley is #1. He put up 66 points as an 18 year old D. There is one other D who put up a higher p/gp as a 18 year old. And that is Bobby Orr. But for Dahlin to be in the same company as those two, which makes them the only three 18 year old D in nhl history to put up higher than 0.5p/gp, well that’s pretty impressive.

Yep, once he got called out the goalposts began to move quite quickly. I used to give him the benefit of just being a gullible person that would see random stories posted on his friends facebook pages and would just jump on the bandwagon without actually adding any thought or research into, as long as it fit his narrative. Now i'm not so sure. He purposely left out the source for a reason, obviously knowing full well North99's one sided position would get called out. But yet even knowing that media source's agenda, he still chose to use them instead of any of the 5 other more center leaning media outlets. He's purposely trying to spread that anti UPC spin regardless of the authenticity, seems hypocritical for someone that calls out Rebel to then use the left wing equivalent. Either way. as I told Rowdy, now worth peoples time.

No UPC is not letting this go. That's just the spin the far left wing source hippy specifically selected to help fill his agenda, didn't think it was suspicious at all that he failed to provide a link. The fact that he didn't add a link just shows that Hippy fully understood his misleading intent. Pretty pathetic that he would even try that to be honest but but he's bipartisan . I guess that's what you call yourself when you are quoting North99, a media outlet worse than Rebel news. When CBC and even Buzzfeed call them what they are, it sure says a lot about the integrity of the source. "North99, a political advocacy group founded by former Liberal Party staffers, has been using online petitions, some of them misleadingly labelled, to collect supporters' contact information ahead of the 2019 election." https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/north99-petitions-facebook-election-1.5208209 Scollon is one of the people behind North99, a nonprofit that uses articles, memes, and videos to advance a left-wing policy agenda, primarily on Facebook. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/craigsilverman/canada-partisan-media-ontario-proud-north99 Here's what is really happening https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/property-taxes-from-oil-and-gas-companies

I’m curious as to what metric you are justifying that claim based off of. Currently there Quinn Hughes is producing at 0.69p/go and Dahlin in producing at 0.68p/gp. last year Dahlin put the 2nd highest point total ever by an 18 year old defensemen in the history of the NHL. And this year even with his concussion and missed games he’s still on pace to put up the 5th highest point total by a 19 year old defensemen. I love Hughes but let’s not take away how good Dahlin is for his age. For example. Dahlin already has more career points at 19 than Hedman had in his career at 22. Dahlins done that in only a year and a half compared to Hedman playing 3 full seasons.

See but what you are doing in confusing total job vacancy with quality and setting that as the benchmark. Just because a team is forced to put a player in that position doesn’t mean that player has the qualification to properly fill that role. And because of this we see a constant rotation of players moving up and down the line up. Where you play on a roster is not static. How many teams do you think can clearly define who there 3 first line players are? If teams can’t do that, it’s impossible to assign arbitrary number for a benchmark. Go back to the goalie example. You admit that Blackwood does not have the qualifications to be considered a number one goalie despite his team forcing him into that position. You rebuttal that with, but some teams have two #1 goalies (which I mostly disagree with as many of those tandem goalies have proven they aren’t capable of taking on the load of a full time number one aka Talbot). So if some teams have two #1 goalies and some teams have none will the sum magically balance to the bench mark number you set of 31? Try it out and list all 31 goalies you believe are #1 guys, you’ll start to see that once you get passed 20 the quality gap starts to dramatically drop, thus devaluing the value of what most believe defines a #1 goalie. How do you bench mark it? Well again consider this, if we can accept the position a player plays throughout the year is fluid, then you have to accept the benchmark also has to be fluid. It’s a floating number, one year we might only have 50 qualified first line players, another year there might be 80. if you set the benchmark at a static number, then every year your have to adjust the value of what qualifies a person as a 1st line player. Doing that takes away any meaning behind the claim and devalues the true first line players around the league. When you start lumping players like Kassian into a grouping with guys like Boeser, you should start to immediately see the flaw in the logic. So how do you define a 1stline player? Well you kind of already answered that when you used the Tampa bay example, Market value. How would majority of other teams value that player on their roster? How many teams would use Blackwood as there number 1 goalie? Outside of New Jersey probably none. How many teams would use McDavid as a first line player? Every team. Yes two extremes but when you start to consider market value, you can start to define all the criteria, and add in the needed context outside of the simplified “did player achieve XYZ p/gp” Me as well. I think these types conversations allow people to broaden their understanding and improve ones appreciation for the sport. I thoroughly enjoy hockey and while canucks are my favorite team it doesn’t stop me for appreciating other aspects of the game around the league. To me that makes it more meaningful and fulfilling when canucks do accomplish things.

Points per 60 at 5 on 5, doesn’t hold water either unless you willing to admit that Robert Thomas is a more effective producing first liner then Elias Pettersson, since that’s what the criteria states? Is Zack Kassian a better first liner than Jack Eichel? According to that data set, Virtanen is more of a first liner than Ovechkin, Laine, JT Miller, Bergeron, Horvat, Hall, Taravainen and even Barzal, how stupid does that sound? This is a prime example of the error in using the simplified logic 31 multiplied by X equals YXZ. There’s an enormous amount of important criteria that is exclude when determining what defines a first line forward. There’s so much more to what defines a first line forward than simply, goals, points, points per 60, points/gp and even ozone starts. None of those data points are going to give you black and white answer and what you end up with is a very grey statistic that people try to present as fact. The biggest flaw is believing that the NHL has 93 first liners. Just because there’s that many vacancies in the league doesn’t mean there’s that many players to fill that hole. Teams that don’t have the players to fill that role are often forced to put someone in a role they are not suited for. Just as New Jersey’s goaltending when considering who there #1 goalie is. Some teams have 4-6 players that would be valued as a first liner around the league, some teams might be lucky to have one player. 1st through 4th line positioning is not static, players move up and down the roster throughout the entire year, on every team. People try hard to cherry pick numbers that bring out positives on players they have a bias’s for. I’m seeing TO media doing the same thing currently explaining why they think Nylander is a top 50 player in the NHL which he is clearly not. It’s frustrating to see the critical thinking of the game taken out. I don’t like seeing things dumbed down to forth grade level and simply agree. People should stop and ask themselves, Is the data presented, enough to make a beyond reasonable doubt conclusion? How might this data be flawed? Is there bester criteria that needs to be considered? We’re better than eastern Hockey fans, we should hold ourselves to a higher standard of hockey discussion and not be sucked into the blind bias’s stats that leaf fans constantly deploy.

Aaron dell isn’t even sharks number one goalie. But according to your 31 criteria he is. Haha. Wait who’s the flames #1 goalie. What about the oilers. How do the islanders have two number one goalies according to your criteria but the Vegas knights doesn’t have any. How is this possible? Doesn’t every team have to have a number one goalie. But wait there’s more.... According to NHL.com canucks only have 2 RW’s? How can an NHL team only have two RW? Hmmmm something’s not adding up. There are 31 teams, each team has four lines = 124 RW’s in the NHL right? Yet on NHL.com. There’s only 81 RW’s that have played over 20 games this year. Guess by default there are zero 4th line RWs in the NHL this year. That doesn’t make much sense now does it. .....And to finish it off. By your same logic if that means jake is a first liner. Well I guess, not only is Nylander a first liner. He’s a top 10 RW in the league......

Well there’s more to playing than simple scoring goals. Tkachuk leads his team in points with 38, a pretty important stat you just so conveniently left out. As a canes fan you must think Jake is more valuable than taravinen as he only has 9 goals. (Shhh we won’t mention that he got 45 points). you must have also thought Henrik Sedin was garage his career goal average was only 14 goals per 82 games. Jake already tied that in 49 games this year. the only people going hmm are the ones that struggle to understand hockey. Let’s face it. You are only making that statement because you made the bold claim that tkachuk wouldn’t be in the NHL by his fourth year and now he’s got a career .77 p/gp and is on his way to the all star game. Haha ahh the old 31 teams claim haha come one rob that’s grade one level logic. You’re better than that. I guess that means Aaron dell is a #1 goalie too. welcome back rob.

Why does that make you go hmmmmm?

I agree, Jake really has a skillset that this team needs if we want to make a push in the post season. The playoffs are where I really think his coming out party will be, similar to Ferlund in 2015. I know a lot of people will hate this but he has the ability to play in a similar mold of Tkachuk (with less turtling) where he can get under guys skins and get them off their games. It’s a type of style that Jake knows and wants to play. “I have to be able to play that 200-foot game, score and be a guy where teams hate me at the end of the night,” said Virtanen. In a 7 game playoffs series a player like this is crucial and Jake can be exactly that. While he’s be a nice surprise this season, if he really wants to earn his value, he will have to show it come April and I fully expect him to be up for that.

Fully agree. IF you want to act tough, be prepared to answer the bell. Realistically Tkachuk put him self in far more danger getting rag dolled with Kassian throwing wild punches rather than had he just dropped the gloves and tied up his arms. I bet Tkachuk does fight the next meeting, likely not against Kassian but someone else on that roster.

Yeah Hockey’s not a sport for you....Maybe stick to soccer. If hitting a player when they aren’t expecting it needs to be removed than you are taking out 90% of the big hits in the NHL. Players can just run around with their heads down all the time and have no worries about the consequences. Players like kassian wouldn’t even belong in the league. Hockey is a contact sport. As long as the head isn’t targeted (which in this case it wasn’t) it’s a completely legal hit. You’re entire argument is flawed too. If your reasoning is due to concussions, then it really shouldn’t matter if the hit was predatory or not, all types of hits can cause similar types of injuries, hits along the boards, hits in open ice and even hits exiting the zone. You may want the sport to turn into charmin ultra soft but that’s just because your from surrey. You must really hate playoff hockey.

Lucic already got a two game suspension for doing the exact same thing kassian did this year. The only difference was it was a teammate that got hit. But the bar was set then on what happens when you start throwing punches at an unwilling player.

When playoffs role around I hope jake and ferland are playing this same style with similar hits...making players pay the price. it’s where the men separate from the boys and JB built a team to play this style. Surprise so many people on this board are complaining and want these types of hits removed from the game. Likely has everything to do with the name on the back of jerseys because who really wants a league filled with Nylander and Ehlers. Right @Alflives?

Ha I took my 4 month year old to a flameS game this year (yeah I know I am that kind of parent) and even though canucks weren’t playing I had him decked out in canucks attire. Couple of drunk idiots behind us were beaking us most of the time “Stupid parents don’t know what teams are playing”, “that kid doesn’t have a chance in the future”. It wasn’t until a friend who’s also an ex flame, came up and said hi to us in the second that they shut up. I should also say that the majority of people were friendly, stopped and called him a cute kid and what not. Just a few drunk losers that happened to sit behind us.

No body like Hartley stajan and sarich just did and interview and they talked about who terrible of a person he was and how he screwed kipper over on his last game of his career. starts at 15:35ish. https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/boomer-morning/jan-15-matt-stajan-and-cory-sarich-in-studio/ The whole interview is pretty good. They talk about players being cheap, how weird bowmeester is and bob hartley.

Tkachuk was covering for his center lindholm who was up past the top of the circle on the other side. Had tkachuk not went down to support, kassian would have been open to walk out front of the net. Wingers supporting centers down low is not a new thing. Again that was canucks strategy when burr played with the twins. Wingers leaving there point happens on the time. Nothing is illegal about doing that. players protect themselves by keeping their head up this is the big boys league, not a skill competition. Yep and got my bell rung a few times. But guess what, had I had my head up I wouldn’t have put myself into that situation. I’m not going to make an excuse that a hit was dirty when I’m the one who could have prevented it. When your a good player other teams are going to try and run you. they want to get you off your game and second guess yourself when you have the puck. That’s strategic hockey and it’s why we love watching the playoffs where hits like tkachuks are the norm. You can’t run around with your head down when you have the puck. When the puck is on your stick you have to expect that you are going to get hit no matter where you are on the ice. Kassian just isn’t used to having players take a run at him. I’ll make sure to raz him about it if I run into him again this summers.

Nope it not that way because what makes a hit dangerous is the speed obtained before making contact. A player backchecking and gliding into a hit at 20mph isn’t less dangerous than another player taking a few strides only reaching 15mph and making a hit.

The only difference between these plays is the name on the back of the jerseys. -unsuspecting player and a blind side hit, check -winger leaving his “position” to target a player, check -zero focus on the puck, check all the exact same excuses people have been saying the tkachuk hit was dirty, this one fillS all the same criteria, but here’s a hint. Neither we dirty both were just hockey players in a sport where contact is legal. You homers just don’t like tkachuk and have the glasses on. And then you get mad and cry when DOPS doesn’t agree with you. Had this play been ferland doing the exact same thing to Johnny, every single person on this board would claim it was a clean amazing hit. That is just a fact.

yeah no. Wingers can come down low and take out a player preventing them from walking out in front with the puck. It happens all the time, forwards need to be expecting it. They need to be aware of the players on the ice. That’s hockey. Yet virtanen does it and you praise him. tkachuk does it and it’s dangerous and needs to leave the sport.

He didn’t target the head, only reason kassians bucket came off is because he’s loosened his chin strap. Kassian needs to be held accountable coming around the net with his head down. This is the big boy league not TimBits.

no Alf that’s hockey. Kass had his head down and he’s needs to be aware of his surrounds and the players on the ice. So jakes hit on Nichuskin doesn’t belong? it’s a physical game it’s why the majority of people on this board wanted us to sign ferklund. It’s why people would love a player like Tom Wilson. Don’t like it feel free to watch soccer. Even kassian the recipient likes that type of game. Physicality belongs in the game anyone who disagrees shouldn’t be tuning into the next oil flames match up....you know a regular season game that is two weeks away and people are hyped up for. All because of tkachuk and that is entertainment. guys don’t expect D to pinch either and often get there bell rung. Players needs to understand their surroundings. Nothing tkachuk did was illegal. Heck Had kassian not had his head down, he would have realized tkachuk left his D wide open and gave up a good scoring chance.

People are blowing this out of proportion. The hits were clean hockey hit. Predatory hits? sure, but they were still clean hits catching a player in the trolley tracks. The shoulder was the target and initial point of contact and that’s not even debatable. You could argue a charge but it’s a grey debate as 90% of hockey hits involve a player coming in with speed. Gliding in at 15mph vs taking a few strides and reaching 15mph doesn’t really make a hit any more dangerous. He didn’t jump to make the contact so really I’d lean on the side of no charging penalty. All in all, these are exciting physical hits that belong in this game, it’s exactly why we sign a guy like Ferlund. We want players to second guess themselves when the puck is on their stick. When Ferklund catches a few guys in a similar matter during this upcoming post season, not one of you here will complain, in fact most of you will be praising the hits. The only reason people are complaining now is because of the name on the back of the jersey. With that said, if you are going to engage in this style of the game you best be ready for the repercussions. That doesn’t mean Tkachuk needs to fight a heavy weight or even drop the mitts at all and yes Kassian went overboard. But there will be repercussions for the rest flames players, they know the oilers will be coming for them and we’ve all seen how Johnny disappears when the physicality kicks up a notch. And as of right now, guess which two teams are line up to play each other in playoffs. Exciting hockey up ahead.

bahaha

But his amateur opinion is enough to discredit the “so called experts”. You know the experts who make a living off plane safety. Gut feelings alway discredit years of experience, source creditability, and soon (we will see) to be the opinion of the Canadian PM