The Official Transit Thread

[ahzdeen]

Translink not having enough money has little to do with the subsidy they give to students at universities.

Seriously? The only way it's not a subsidy is if 2/3 students never used their U-passes. Otherwise, they've given up revenue. And a lot of revenue at that. Now I'm not saying take it away (god knows I loved having one), but it does come up in the discussion of why translink doesn't have money.

Edited September 1, 2011 by ahzdeen

[Common sense]

Lack of parking drives Dalhousie prof to quit his job

http://www.canada.com/Lack+parking+drives+prof+quit/5336048/story.html#ixzz1WiIKHPUe

Dan Middlemiss was so miffed at not getting one of the few — and highly coveted — parking spots at Dalhousie University, he put the brakes on a 30-year career at the Nova Scotia school.

The defence studies professor had waited hours in line for a parking pass, only to see it handed over to someone who lived a few blocks from campus.

The parking logjam drove Middlemiss to resign and to end his three-decade tenure at the Halifax institution.

"It's not just this, and it's silly in a way, but it's the culmination of a death by a thousand cuts," the 66-year-old said in a telephone interview.

"It's just a problem when you've got 20,000-plus people and 2,000 spots," he said.

"It's not the money, it's not even the waiting — it's just the general situation. I'm tired of it."

He's not alone.

In the hours following the news of his decision, Middlemiss heard from friends and former colleagues at universities from across the country who said they sympathized with his situation because they too, felt the car crunch.

However, letting those emotions escalate may be just the answer campuses are looking for to solve their parking woes.

Rather than spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on new parking structures, universities should just let the frustration build to the point where drivers want to stop using their vehicles, says an expert on urban transportation habits.

"I don't think that building more parking is the answer," said Ahmed El-Geneidy, an urban planning professor at McGill University in Montreal.

McGill, for instance, has been actively discouraging parking at its downtown campus by eliminating parking spaces and refusing to hand out new passes, save for special circumstances, El-Geneidy said.

While Middlemiss said priority for parking passes should be given to those who live farthest from campus, El-Geneidy said priority should be given to those for whom public transportation or cycling is difficult. Think of a doctor working 12-hour shifts or a researcher who ends work late at night, he said. In that scenario El-Geneidy said, the doctor or researcher would get a parking pass regardless of where they live.

Dalhousie University is looking at building more above- and below-ground parking, said Ken Burt, the school's vice-president of finance and administration. The cost for either isn't cheap: $25,000 per stall for above-ground garages and $75,000 per stall for below-ground parking.

"The immediate thing we need to be developing are these green ways of getting to campus," Burt said.

He said Dalhousie has included changerooms, showers and storage spaces for cyclists in new buildings, and also offers taxi passes to cyclists to be used should they be stuck on campus late or during severe weather.

The University of British Columbia has decreased by one-third the number of parking spaces on campus to about 10,000 from 15,000 and plans to continue to cut the number of spaces in the years to come, said Joe Stott, UBC's director of campus planning.

In place of parking spaces, UBC has built neighbourhoods for staff and faculty and more residence spaces for students, Stott said.

Dalhousie also is looking at providing its faculty and staff with a discounted transit pass, a practice other schools, such as UBC and the University of Alberta in Edmonton, have in place for their students.

Geoff Rode, who oversees parking at the University of Alberta, said the bus pass has been more successful than carpool and car-sharing programs in getting people out of their vehicles. Students have taken to the pass more so than staff and faculty, Rode said.

The success of any public transit initiative is in the eyes of the user, El-Geneidy said.

"It all depends to what extent the transit system . . . sucks. If it's bad, no one is going to take it," he said.

Not everyone is going to take the bus, or ride a bike, or walk to campus, El-Geneidy said. Some people are so wedded to their vehicle that "if you do a brain scan of them, you'll find a car," he said.

"You will never get it down to zero (per cent driving). If you get it to 10 (per cent), I think that would be very good."

[ronthecivil]

Lack of parking drives Dalhousie prof to quit his job

http://www.canada.co...l#ixzz1WiIKHPUe

Dan Middlemiss was so miffed at not getting one of the few — and highly coveted — parking spots at Dalhousie University, he put the brakes on a 30-year career at the Nova Scotia school.

The defence studies professor had waited hours in line for a parking pass, only to see it handed over to someone who lived a few blocks from campus.

The parking logjam drove Middlemiss to resign and to end his three-decade tenure at the Halifax institution.

"It's not just this, and it's silly in a way, but it's the culmination of a death by a thousand cuts," the 66-year-old said in a telephone interview.

"It's just a problem when you've got 20,000-plus people and 2,000 spots," he said.

"It's not the money, it's not even the waiting — it's just the general situation. I'm tired of it."

He's not alone.

In the hours following the news of his decision, Middlemiss heard from friends and former colleagues at universities from across the country who said they sympathized with his situation because they too, felt the car crunch.

However, letting those emotions escalate may be just the answer campuses are looking for to solve their parking woes.

Rather than spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on new parking structures, universities should just let the frustration build to the point where drivers want to stop using their vehicles, says an expert on urban transportation habits.

"I don't think that building more parking is the answer," said Ahmed El-Geneidy, an urban planning professor at McGill University in Montreal.

McGill, for instance, has been actively discouraging parking at its downtown campus by eliminating parking spaces and refusing to hand out new passes, save for special circumstances, El-Geneidy said.

While Middlemiss said priority for parking passes should be given to those who live farthest from campus, El-Geneidy said priority should be given to those for whom public transportation or cycling is difficult. Think of a doctor working 12-hour shifts or a researcher who ends work late at night, he said. In that scenario El-Geneidy said, the doctor or researcher would get a parking pass regardless of where they live.

Dalhousie University is looking at building more above- and below-ground parking, said Ken Burt, the school's vice-president of finance and administration. The cost for either isn't cheap: $25,000 per stall for above-ground garages and $75,000 per stall for below-ground parking.

"The immediate thing we need to be developing are these green ways of getting to campus," Burt said.

He said Dalhousie has included changerooms, showers and storage spaces for cyclists in new buildings, and also offers taxi passes to cyclists to be used should they be stuck on campus late or during severe weather.

The University of British Columbia has decreased by one-third the number of parking spaces on campus to about 10,000 from 15,000 and plans to continue to cut the number of spaces in the years to come, said Joe Stott, UBC's director of campus planning.

In place of parking spaces, UBC has built neighbourhoods for staff and faculty and more residence spaces for students, Stott said.

Dalhousie also is looking at providing its faculty and staff with a discounted transit pass, a practice other schools, such as UBC and the University of Alberta in Edmonton, have in place for their students.

Geoff Rode, who oversees parking at the University of Alberta, said the bus pass has been more successful than carpool and car-sharing programs in getting people out of their vehicles. Students have taken to the pass more so than staff and faculty, Rode said.

The success of any public transit initiative is in the eyes of the user, El-Geneidy said.

"It all depends to what extent the transit system . . . sucks. If it's bad, no one is going to take it," he said.

Not everyone is going to take the bus, or ride a bike, or walk to campus, El-Geneidy said. Some people are so wedded to their vehicle that "if you do a brain scan of them, you'll find a car," he said.

"You will never get it down to zero (per cent driving). If you get it to 10 (per cent), I think that would be very good."

Eventually you just drive (no pun intended) all the vehicle users away, like our proffessor here. The city of Vancouver likes to trumpet proudly how they have greatly reduced car traffic in the downtown peninsula. And they are right. However, part of that is that people that used to commute to the downtown core now just commute to other suburbs as the jobs they go to eventually migrate out to them.

The other possibility is reduced economic activity.

But even in a place like downtown Manhatten or Hong Kong I doubt they get car traffic down THAT low, especially if you take into account the surrounding suburbs.

[Weber's Playoff Beard]

Eventually you just drive (no pun intended) all the vehicle users away, like our proffessor here. The city of Vancouver likes to trumpet proudly how they have greatly reduced car traffic in the downtown peninsula. And they are right. However, part of that is that people that used to commute to the downtown core now just commute to other suburbs as the jobs they go to eventually migrate out to them.

The other possibility is reduced economic activity.

But even in a place like downtown Manhatten or Hong Kong I doubt they get car traffic down THAT low, especially if you take into account the surrounding suburbs.

Mostly because people prefer to walk 5 blocks to a McDonalds in Manhatten instead of driving. Or in HK and most major cities in China, their public transit system covers a very large area. And getting a driver's license is much harder in HK and China... so a lot of people don't have their license.

[ronthecivil]

Mostly because people prefer to walk 5 blocks to a McDonalds in Manhatten instead of driving. Or in HK and most major cities in China, their public transit system covers a very large area. And getting a driver's license is much harder in HK and China... so a lot of people don't have their license.

For sure walking would be the predominant form of travel in Manhatten or HK for sure. But both are still congested with car traffic. And more importantly if you looked at the entire metro region (HK has Kowloon and Manhatten has Jersey) where if you look at it as a whole the car traffic didn't really go down, it just got pushed into the suburbs.

[inane]

http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2011/09/01/toll-the-hov-lanes/

[inane]

http://m.translink.ca/

Check that out on your phone. Live map view, next bus, etc... pretty cool.

[aGENT]

http://stephenrees.w...-the-hov-lanes/

Link doesn't seem to be working.

But from the title...I agree. I've been calling for "HOT" lanes for a while now.

[inane]

link works for me...

anyway, here it is:

Don Cayo, a financial columnist on the Vancouver Sun, is usually worth reading, I do not always agree with him but his analysis is always sensible and not always driven by an ideological agenda. I wish I could say the same about the C. D. Howe Institute. They are one of the chain of right wing think tanks spread across North America, paid for by the extremely wealthy and privileged to promote the neoconservative creed which has paid off so handsomely for them. They are the people who produced the report that inspired Cayo’s latest opinion piece.

The idea is that HOV lanes are under-utilized, which is known in the trade as “the empty lane syndrome”. The people stuck in the slow moving or stalled traffic are envious of the shared cars and buses that whiz by them. Indeed, in my earlier days I can recall my bosses chiding me for embracing “the politics of envy” when I had the temerity to suggest that greater income equality would be a worthwhile objective. After all, I had done lots of history for my A levels and it was mostly about revolutions in the 18th and 19th centuries. “People who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” (Who said that, boy?)

It is always quite hard for the people who drive single occupant vehicles to grasp the concept of the amount of public resources they consume. It is even harder for them to accept that those who put up with the inconveniences of car sharing or public transit (the car pool that leaves every 15 minutes) are helping by making better use of the road space available. And, of course the lane looks “empty” because if it was jammed with traffic too, it would not be working. The whole idea is to put some people at the front of the line and make the rest wait a bit longer. They have by now got used to the idea of queue jumping at airport gates – because they have had their ticket paid for by someone else who is willing to absorb the much higher front cabin fare as a cost of doing business and hence a write off against tax. Actually, if you think about it, that is the way that the rest of us taxpayers subsidize them.

HOT (High Occupancy or Toll) has been around for a while, so there is some objective research. Initially, they were dismissed as “Lexus lanes” but it turns out that given the right sort of sort pricing policy, and a way of conveying variable price information to drivers in the traffic jam, drivers can actually make sensible decisions – and everyone has their own valuation of time. Obviously, there will be days and times when the chance of saving a few minutes will be worth several dollars. Some people, even with limited disposable incomes, are highly intolerant of any delay, and arrange their lives so that they do not have to cross a bridge at peak periods. Others have time to waste and no money to spend at all. They currently happily add themselves to existing traffic jams, not tuning their radios to AM730 but just accepting that at this time of day they will not be going anywhere fast and can listen to their favourite music. And be unavailable, now that texting and telephoning are not permitted. All right I added that out of mischief. It seems we still do not understand that this is a life threatening issue – not just the outside chance of a fine.

I saw a presentation on the success of variable rate HOT lane pricing in Minneapolis some years ago so I was pleased that an early hit on my Google search was the DoT report “In Minneapolis, converting HOV to HOT lanes with dynamic pricing increased peak period throughput by 9 to 33 percent“.

I think it is worth considering if we actually want to increase peak period throughput on freeways. Is that necessarily a Good Thing? Cayo, of course, points to the cost of congestion. But that figure is calculated system wide, not just on one link. And for a good reason. If you solve one bottle neck, all you do is move the queue somewhere else. This was the reason why the Lions’ Gate Bridge was not widened to accommodate another lane. All that would have done is take the line up from Taylor Way and put it on Georgia Street.

Tolling Road pricing works somewhat differently – because it keeps the average generalized cost of transportation roughly the same. All that happens with variable peak pricing is that some trips get an advantage that others don’t, but system wide the volumes of traffic remain fairly constant. That is because there is a trade off between time and money. Road pricing is indeed more efficient ( in the economic sense of that word) – hence the Economist’s famous headline about how we now manage traffic using the same system that the soviets used for everything – queueing as a distribution mechanism (also favoured by the TSA).

So what puts me on Cayo’s side is his observation at the end

“surveys of drivers on highways with HOT lanes find that most users of both free and tolled lanes approve road tolls, and that approval ratings increase as drivers become more familiar with the benefits of HOT lanes.”

Which is a Good Thing if it overcomes the present knee jerk opposition to road pricing. What car users currently pay does not even cover the direct cost of highway provision.

“Gas taxes, vehicle licences and other revenues from drivers, which do little to curb congestion, only covered 53 per cent of roadway expenses.”

He is quoting from the CD Howe report here. We do need more money for the transportation system. But we also need to spend it more sensibly. Building the Golden Ears Bridge (GEB) just because it could be tolled, and therefore user fees would pay for it (they haven’t and probably couldn’t) made no sense to me when I reviewed it – but then it was never, formally, part of any transportation plan. I do not support road tolls to build more and better road capacity. That will simply generate (induce) more traffic. But we can use system wide road pricing to make decision making by trip makers closer to the real costs they impose on society. Which is a great deal more than the expression “roadway costs” was intended to cover by CDH. And the “surplus” can be “diverted” to funding a real transportation system that includes more and better choices than driving an SOV.

This region needs system wide variable road pricing. The current political climate makes that a non-starter. But some experience with HOT lanes will start to change that. So I am all for the thin end of this wedge. It is not nearly enough, and if we do indeed manage to increase the throughput of traffic on roads already widened to accommodate HOV lanes then the impact on neighbourhoods adjacent to the exits is going to become very significant. The BC MoTH/BC Liberals did not pay attention to that when they decided to widen Highway #1, but that new induced traffic has to go somewhere: sure the ride down the freeway and over the bridge will be better – for a while. But the traffic when you get off the freeway is going to be much much worse. And some of those neighbourhoods are swing constituencies. The HOT lanes idea will have an even wider impact.

Maybe then we can consider really effective changes to both transportation and land use.

UPDATE Friday September 2

This morning’s Sun story has the headline “Coastal residents: BC Ferries should operate like marine highways“. They want all the residents of BC to subsidize the ferries just like the do the road system. This, of course, is not a new idea either – and was heard frequently with comparisons of the Albion Ferry (BC Highways – free) and the Millbay Ferry (BC Ferries – not free). Unfair it was said, and it was true, but no-one did anything. One BC Ferry – the one between Prince Rupert and Port Hardy – competes with cruse ships. Somehow I don’t think that is one anyone wants that to be free – but I could be wrong about that. And, at weekends, the SeaBus is a great harbour cruise at 90 minutes for $2.75 – you just have to get off and get back on again after each trip so they can make sure they have the right number of life jackets. Maybe they would get further with the fairness augment by saying that everyone should start paying the real cost of highways, which would also level the playing field.

[ronthecivil]

http://stephenrees.w...-the-hov-lanes/

It's pretty easy to decide whether or not an HOV lane is utilised, but you have to measure it the right way. If you consider that the lane of traffic is to be measured by the number of PEOPLE instead of VEHICLES then it's quite possible for a capacity lane of SOVs taking about 1500 - 2000 people per hour max to be beaten by buses and cars with dozens to even a couple people each in total carry capacity and still appear to be "empty".

That said I can't help but notice that on 99 they are building bus only lanes when there wouldn't be so many HOV users that you could open it up to general HOV (2+ or 3+ depending on the congestion in the lane) use and still use it as a fast transit lane while providing releif and encouragement to carpoolers.

The debate about the HOV on highway one is pretty unfounded though.

[Guest Voucer]

Of course services being provided to you and paid for by others are beneficial! Why would anyone deny that?

It's quite a luxury to have. There are those who complain about having to pay for the UPass (saw this in a CTV feature), but I love it. Sometimes I'll take the Skytrain downtown simply because I can. It allows me the freedom to travel wherever I want, whenever I want... even for the sake of taking the train.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Voucer

[Mr.Habitat]

Apparently translink has the new bus tracker app... I can't find it on the app store.

[Duodenum]

The buses need some g'damn air conditioning.

Taking the 41 to UBC was absolutely brutal today. I'll be driving most of the way to UBC (and parking at point grey!) as long as it's warm outside.

[Opmac]

Apparently translink has the new bus tracker app... I can't find it on the app store.

You access it through http://m.translink.ca

The buses need some g'damn air conditioning.

Taking the 41 to UBC was absolutely brutal today. I'll be driving most of the way to UBC (and parking at point grey!) as long as it's warm outside.

If you have air conditioning on the bus, fuel consumption is going to go way up. The bus isn't going to stay cool at all either with the doors opening and closing so frequently.

[Common sense]

The buses need some g'damn air conditioning.

Taking the 41 to UBC was absolutely brutal today. I'll be driving most of the way to UBC (and parking at point grey!) as long as it's warm outside.

Heh. That's not going to happen for much longer.

[ronthecivil]

The buses need some g'damn air conditioning.

Taking the 41 to UBC was absolutely brutal today. I'll be driving most of the way to UBC (and parking at point grey!) as long as it's warm outside.

Why not just do that every day?

One thing I did notice for sure was that all the point grey residents started putting up "resident only parking" signs and what not as the whole neighbourhood suddenly got congested from people doing just that.

Oh, and the bus doesn't have air conditioning for the same reason it doesn't have heated leather seats. It costs money. Translink is broke!!!!!!

Edited September 8, 2011 by ronthecivil

[ronthecivil]

“surveys of drivers on highways with HOT lanes find that most users of both free and tolled lanes approve road tolls, and that approval ratings increase as drivers become more familiar with the benefits of HOT lanes.”

Which is a Good Thing if it overcomes the present knee jerk opposition to road pricing. What car users currently pay does not even cover the direct cost of highway provision.

Uh, in the lower mainland, if you add up the tranlink tax, the provincial fuel tax, and the federal exise tax on gas, it works out to about two billion dollars a year in the lower mainland.

We don't spend two billion dollars a year on roads in the lower mainland.

[ahzdeen]

Uh, in the lower mainland, if you add up the tranlink tax, the provincial fuel tax, and the federal exise tax on gas, it works out to about two billion dollars a year in the lower mainland.

We don't spend two billion dollars a year on roads in the lower mainland.

Cue Inane's "it's not just the monetary cost etc. etc."

[ronthecivil]

Cue Inane's "it's not just the monetary cost etc. etc."

Well there's also all the ICBC costs that should cover that stuff.

I can't beleive people think the roads are big enough. I got onto the 99 at six this morning and it was already super busy. That thing needs to have HOV lane +3 each direction at the very least. 91 needs to have an interchange at 72nd and all of the delta interchanges should be on a parralell road system so there's one entrance to delta from 91 at 64th and one exit to delta to 91 at Nordell and vice versa the other way. These would all be relatively easy with the main issue being the Massey tunnels which should be replaced anways. And despite paying for gas taxes through the nose to subsidise the bus go ahead and toll the bridges to build it I don't care the road rage from the traffic has me in the mood to knock out the next idiot planner I see.

Southbound they have two lanes of 91, two lanes of 91A, and one lane of Anacis island merging into three lanes of bridge. That's not an easy fix at all but did the people that came up with this understand the concept of lane continuity?

[aGENT]

Well there's also all the ICBC costs that should cover that stuff.

I can't beleive people think the roads are big enough. I got onto the 99 at six this morning and it was already super busy. That thing needs to have HOV lane +3 each direction at the very least. 91 needs to have an interchange at 72nd and all of the delta interchanges should be on a parralell road system so there's one entrance to delta from 91 at 64th and one exit to delta to 91 at Nordell and vice versa the other way. These would all be relatively easy with the main issue being the Massey tunnels which should be replaced anways. And despite paying for gas taxes through the nose to subsidise the bus go ahead and toll the bridges to build it I don't care the road rage from the traffic has me in the mood to knock out the next idiot planner I see.

Southbound they have two lanes of 91, two lanes of 91A, and one lane of Anacis island merging into three lanes of bridge. That's not an easy fix at all but did the people that came up with this understand the concept of lane continuity?

Traffic has been BRUTAL this week. Damn back to schoolers! Five car pile up 99 South on Tue on my way home, accident 99N Wed AM and just general idiots and volume freaking EVERYWHERE

It was nice that I could drive to work this morning without SOMEONE running in to someone else and cluster-fracking traffic for hours but there was still crap loads of volume and idiots that don't know how to merge or get the frack out of the left lane. "But I want to take the counter flow that's TEN FRACKING KILOMETERS AWAY!!"