Common sense Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 What would be even worse is if the train line were to attract more development and sprawl around it, where the agricultural land was. Only a matter of time. At the very least, make it into a town center style, not like the crap we've seen with the 1hr/bus system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) I'm for you guys getting a commuter rail system to connect your town centres, but vehemently oppose any frequent stopping Skytrain-like system to fill in all the ALR and wilderness land inbetween. Agreed. I'd certainly support the 6-km extension of SkyTrain to Fleetwood and another 5-km extension to Newton via King George Highway....but an extension from Fleetwood to Langley doesn't make much sense, it goes through huge swaths of ALR. It would be more ideal to use LRT and commuter rail from that point on and for the rest of Surrey and Fraser Valley. The streets of Surrey are also capable of trams/LRT as they are quite wide, unlike Vancouver's roads. Edited August 25, 2009 by nitronuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Exactly. It's not like Farmer Joe's gonna take the skytrain at 176 and fraser Hwy just to get his produce to the farmer's market. This is exactly it though. If you have proper transit, people will take it. This then opens the current roads up for farmer joe to move his goods around, as he is a user of the roads that NEEDS them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Agreed. I'd certainly support the 6-km extension of SkyTrain to Fleetwood and another 5-km extension to Newton via King George Highway....but an extension from Fleetwood to Langley doesn't make much sense, it goes through huge swaths of ALR. It would be more ideal to use LRT and commuter rail from that point on and for the rest of Surrey and Fraser Valley. The streets of Surrey are also capable of trams/LRT as they are quite wide, unlike Vancouver's roads. As has been mentioned, they are planning for LRT down to Newton Town Centre but first there will be a a B-line in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 This is exactly it though. If you have proper transit, people will take it. This then opens the current roads up for farmer joe to move his goods around, as he is a user of the roads that NEEDS them. If you are to run a Skytrain there, its costs would only be justified if there were to be dense development along its path. That would take away from the very ALR that should be used by Joe Farmer to grow his crops, and not developed into more homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahzdeen Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Statistics show the City of Vancouver, which would be the biggest beneficiary of the UBC rail line, will grow from a population of 607,000 to 709,000 by 2031. That's a modest 17-per-cent increase. Contrast that to Abbotsford, Coquitlam, Langley Township and Surrey. According to an analysis from the office of Surrey Mayor Dianne Watts, those four "high-growth-communities" will grow collectively at a rate of approximately 20,800 people per year, meaning an additional 520,000 by the year 2031. The current population of those communities in 2006 was about 770,000. It will reach 1.29 million people by 2031. That means a 67-per-cent boost in population. I like how he takes the growth number from 4 different municipalities and compares it to 1 city. Also, cities do not grow at an even pace over 20 years, there's a lot of fluctuation in there. Also, rapid transit serving Coquitlam/Abottsford/Langley/Surrey would get less ridership and cost far more than a line in Vancouver. His arguments hold absolutely no water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 As has been mentioned, they are planning for LRT down to Newton Town Centre but first there will be a a B-line in the short term. Yes, the B-Line has always been the precursor for rapid transit in our region. 99 west of Commecial = Millennium Line 98 = Canada Line 97 (though not exactly, as it has very low ridership) = Evergreen Line 399 = Expo extension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) If you are to run a Skytrain there, its costs would only be justified if there were to be dense development along its path. That would take away from the very ALR that should be used by Joe Farmer to grow his crops, and not developed into more homes. I said transit, not necessarily skytrain. And there shouldn't be dense development all along skytrain, just at the stations. Although I guess that depends how you define dense. Edited August 25, 2009 by inane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) This is exactly it though. If you have proper transit, people will take it. This then opens the current roads up for farmer joe to move his goods around, as he is a user of the roads that NEEDS them. Nobody is denying them transit, we're just saying SkyTrain isn't feasible and we should look at less costly capital and operational modes like LRT and commuter rail. Edited August 25, 2009 by nitronuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I said transit, not necessarily skytrain. And there shouldn't be dense development all along skytrain, just at the stations. Although I guess that depends how you define dense. So my commuter rail idea should make perfectly good sense to you then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Common sense Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 This is exactly it though. If you have proper transit, people will take it. This then opens the current roads up for farmer joe to move his goods around, as he is a user of the roads that NEEDS them. Proper being the key word. The furthur you are fromSurrey Central, the crappier transit is. There's no denying that (just look at some of the routes and their 1hr/bus freq.) So, what do you do to alleviate that? Build ineffective LRT? No. The anwser is to: 1.) Expand park and ride at Scott Rd, King George, and other places close to the Skytrain backbone such as Guildford. 2.) Expand road capacity so goods and people can move from A to B faster, but with certain restrictions such as HOV/BOV, commercial cars, etc. Let's face it; the bus system is slow and ineffective, and other options will serve absolutely nothing in between Langley and Surrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Nobody is denying them transit, we're just saying SkyTrain isn't feasible and we should look at less costly capital and operational modes like LRT and commuter rail. I didn't say skytrain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Agreed. I'd certainly support the 6-km extension of SkyTrain to Fleetwood and another 5-km extension to Newton via King George Highway....but an extension from Fleetwood to Langley doesn't make much sense, it goes through huge swaths of ALR. It would be more ideal to use LRT and commuter rail from that point on and for the rest of Surrey and Fraser Valley. Does it have to go all the way to Fleetwood? I think that's reaching too close to ALR land over what is a low density neighbourhood anyways. I'd just run it to Guildford, and maybe a park and ride lot a bit beyond that. The streets of Surrey are also capable of trams/LRT as they are quite wide, unlike Vancouver's roads. I think their Little India along Scott Road could use a tram to Scott Road Station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 Proper being the key word. The furthur you are fromSurrey Central, the crappier transit is. There's no denying that (just look at some of the routes and their 1hr/bus freq.) So, what do you do to alleviate that? Build ineffective LRT? No. The anwser is to: 1.) Expand park and ride at Scott Rd, King George, and other places close to the Skytrain backbone such as Guildford. 2.) Expand road capacity so goods and people can move from A to B faster, but with certain restrictions such as HOV/BOV, commercial cars, etc. Let's face it; the bus system is slow and ineffective, and other options will serve absolutely nothing in between Langley and Surrey. lol, i just noticed your sig. *shakes angry fist* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 Does it have to go all the way to Fleetwood? I think that's reaching too close to ALR land over what is a low density neighbourhood anyways. I'd just run it to Guildford, and maybe a park and ride lot a bit beyond that. At this point, I'll be happy to see Surrey/Fraser Valley get any sort of transit. Ending it before Fleetwood is a possibility, but Fleetwood is the farthest it should go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Proper being the key word. The furthur you are fromSurrey Central, the crappier transit is. There's no denying that (just look at some of the routes and their 1hr/bus freq.) So, what do you do to alleviate that? Build ineffective LRT? No. The anwser is to: 1.) Expand park and ride at Scott Rd, King George, and other places close to the Skytrain backbone such as Guildford. 2.) Expand road capacity so goods and people can move from A to B faster, but with certain restrictions such as HOV/BOV, commercial cars, etc. Let's face it; the bus system is slow and ineffective, and other options will serve absolutely nothing in between Langley and Surrey. No, you don't need to expand road capacity. You need to increase choice. There is enough road capacity. It's just full of single occupancy cars instead of being used by the trucks and commercial vehicles. Improve transit (ALL forms) and the existing roads will work for commercial/goods movements. This is of course along with proper planning and a number of other things. Just dumping busses on the road isn't good enough, but it's a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanuck14 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I still seriously doubt that the transit plan announced will be completed by 2020. Every decade the government makes some fancy big transit announcement only to come up short, history will repeat itself. I am eager to see what happens with Translink in the fall with regards to their wish list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_1 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Agreed. I'd certainly support the 6-km extension of SkyTrain to Fleetwood and another 5-km extension to Newton via King George Highway....but an extension from Fleetwood to Langley doesn't make much sense, it goes through huge swaths of ALR. It would be more ideal to use LRT and commuter rail from that point on and for the rest of Surrey and Fraser Valley. The streets of Surrey are also capable of trams/LRT as they are quite wide, unlike Vancouver's roads. Whats in Fleetwood? Not many dense apartments other then townhomes. If you extend skytrain to Fleetwood you might aswell terminate it in Langley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 I still seriously doubt that the transit plan announced will be completed by 2020. Every decade the government makes some fancy big transit announcement only to come up short, history will repeat itself. I am eager to see what happens with Translink in the fall with regards to their wish list. The problem has always been with a change in government. Early-1990s: Socred Government - proposed SkyTrain RAV from Downtown to Richmond Mid-1990s: NDP Gov't - canceled SkyTrain RAV in favour of giving its own ridings rapid transit in Burnaby and the Northeast - Millennium Line from Arbutus to Columbia to Coquitlam was proposed - NDP decide on phasing the project instead as phase I mainline and phase II Coquitlam/Broadway Early-2000s: Liberal Gov't - Liberals shelve phase II Millennium Line for Coquitlam and Broadway - SkyTrain RAV is revived (though underbuilt), with inflation cost nearly 3x more than the Socred proposal 10 years earlier Mid/late-2000s: Liberal Gov't - revival of Evergreen Line and Broadway extension projections, however projects are starting from scratch - back to drawing board....and will cost nearly 2-3x more than originally proposed a decade earlier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 Whats in Fleetwood? Not many dense apartments other then townhomes. If you extend skytrain to Fleetwood you might aswell terminate it in Langley. Not exactly, Langley (the central part of it) is 10-kms away from Fleetwood. I'm just saying, the farthest extent that should be considered for the extension is Fleetwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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