The Official Transit Thread

[UFCanuck]

Missed two classes, but at least the train back was fast.

[Buggernut]

What happened to nitronuts anyways?

[The Situation]

What happened to nitronuts anyways?

No idea but we haven't heard from him and Sultan of Sarcasm in a while either.

[nwdivision]

Traffic congestion is always top three if not number one irritant of voters in surveys done. With that amount of money a crap ton could be done, and it includes a built in demand management tool. And extra 15 billion dollars for roadway and 15 billion A YEAR for transit province wide would get a hell of a lot of things done.

Skytrain out to Coquitlam, UBC, and Langley over ten years? No problem.

Every roadway upgrade on the books? No problem.

Build a road around the other side of the hills to replace the malahat? No problem.

Give Victoria and Kelowna real transit, and at least community shuttles for the elderly in smaller communites? No problem.

Four lane the transcanada to the border and 97 to PG? No problem.

Those are pretty good selling points and when people can see what they are paying for with their own eyes it helps a lot.

What's your big plan to fit in a million people?

Don't forget to four lane highway 99 to Pemberton.

[ronthecivil]

Don't forget to four lane highway 99 to Pemberton.

Ya, 99 from the border to PG then. It's not like the objective should be to spend all the money in the lower mainland!

15 billion dollars a YEAR is a LOT of money.

[Common sense]

TransLink contemplates gondola for SFU

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - TransLink doesn't yet know how it would be paid for, or if there's even demand for a gondola up to SFU.

But a request for proposals has been sent out for the gondola, which would leave the Production Way SkyTrain station and head straight up Burnaby Mountain to the campus.

Ken Hardie with TransLink tells us it would replace smoky diesel buses burning fuel on the way up Burnaby Mountain, and riding the brakes down.

"We could potentially move 3,000 people an hour and with the kind of technology they're currently using at Whistler, we estimate at this point that the trip could be four to six minutes faster than by bus."

Hardie says it would be green technology similar to Whistler's Peak 2 Peak Gondola.

A cost still needs to be worked out - TransLink is making a business plan to see if there's a need for the Gondola. It hopes to have answers in March.

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/105162--translink-contemplates-gondola-for-sfu

Let me be the first to say - dream on.

[ahzdeen]

TransLink contemplates gondola for SFU

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/105162--translink-contemplates-gondola-for-sfu

Let me be the first to say - dream on.

It's not a bad idea. I just wonder if it's economically feasible.

[luongoisdaman]

TransLink contemplates gondola for SFU

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/105162--translink-contemplates-gondola-for-sfu

Let me be the first to say - dream on.

So basically this is taking "the same route" as the 145? I'm not sure if it's will do the students that much good, because the wait times at Production Way, along with the SFU Bus Loop, is really not that bad.

During the "rush hour", aka. 8-11ish, the busses come once every 2-3 minutes, and it's relatively "non-stressful".

This project would take a heck lot of money, and maybe they could use it for more busses during the "non rush hour" times?

[inane]

So basically this is taking "the same route" as the 145? I'm not sure if it's will do the students that much good, because the wait times at Production Way, along with the SFU Bus Loop, is really not that bad.

During the "rush hour", aka. 8-11ish, the busses come once every 2-3 minutes, and it's relatively "non-stressful".

This project would take a heck lot of money, and maybe they could use it for more busses during the "non rush hour" times?

To your first point--they are planning for the future. It might not be stressful now, but what about 10-15 years from now.

The project might be expensive, but it's a creative solution for a unique area with a very high demand for transit. You could probably power it through some 'green' means and it becomes even more attractive.

Not to mention the buses you would no longer need there could go somewhere else where they are desperately needed.

[aGENT]

It's not a bad idea. I just wonder if it's economically feasible.

There's the rub. What's the costs vs buses long term. If it makes sense over even 15-20 years I say go for it. If it doesn't well then....

[ahzdeen]

There's the rub. What's the costs vs buses long term. If it makes sense over even 15-20 years I say go for it. If it doesn't well then....

Looks like we'll have to wait until march to find out.

[The Situation]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/09/21/bc-sfu-gondola-proposal.html

$70 million estimated so it doesn't sound too far out.

[The Situation]

Check out Portland's Aerial Tram for OHSU. OHSU does have a much smaller number of students than SFU though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Aerial_Tram

Just the thought of a gondola is kind of far fetched but it deserves a better look at.

[Denrik]

Why don't they just build a giant escalator going up from the skytrain. Have like 5 in case one breaks down

[The Situation]

Why don't they just build a giant escalator going up from the skytrain. Have like 5 in case one breaks down

That idea would be ridiculous. A gondola seems ridiculous but it has actually worked well for OHSU and Translink is taking this into further consideration.

[nitronuts]

It's one of the best ideas Translink has come up with recently (though it was really SFU's idea). And aerial trams/gondola systems are a proven method for public transit systems for impenetrable terrain...take a look at Hong Kong (albeit it did have major teething issues), the Portland Aerial Tram, and systems in Europe.

Business Case RFP:

Capacity assessment – Analyses of existing ridership volumes indicate that at current transit demand for the gondola is 2,090 people per hour per direction (pphpd). At a minimum, this demand is expected to increase to 2,680 pphpd and at maximum to 3,760 pphpd. The Contractor shall ensure the design is capable of accommodating the projected demand and provide order of magnitude costs for increased capacity. TransLink will provide ridership estimates to the Contractor.

2.8.4 Gondola alignment – Through preliminary planning and consultation with the Trust a number of alignments were contemplated for Burnaby Mountain. A gondola following a 2.65 km straight alignment from Production Way-University SkyTrain Station to Town & Gown Square adjacent to the existing SFU Transit Exchange was determined as a satisfactory “Case Study Gondola Alignment” to be studied in more detail. The Contractor will provide further analysis regarding a preferred alignment, including reviewing the alternatives included in the preliminary feasibility study.

Base station location - The Case Study bottom terminal location is adjacent Production Way-University Station. Possibilities for a number of bottom terminal locations are feasible; however, a direct connection to the SkyTrain station is desired, as it would maintain a single fare paid zone, provide passenger transfer convenience, and integrate well with the SkyTrain transit system. The Contractor will review the potential base station locations and provide a cost-benefit analysis for the recommended base station location.

2.8.6 Fare collection – In consultation with the TransLink smart card and fare gate team, determine requirements and costs to provide ticket vending machines and faregates at the terminals. Subject to discussion, faregate control of all entering and exiting passengers would be required at the upper terminal. Faregate control at the bottom terminal would not be required to/from SkyTrain but would be required for any other terminal access point(s).

2.8.9 Neighbourhood integration - Concerns over aesthetics may arise with the appearance of the gondola cabins travelling overhead and the possible visual impact of the towers. To mitigate any aesthetic concerns, the gondola cabin and tower colour can be selected based on future community input, and the tower design may be modified to create a pleasing structure. The Contractors will consider the potential costs of designs to mitigate concerns.

2.8.10 Privacy/overlook concerns - Privacy can be subjective and will likely result in varying levels of concern from residents below the gondola alignment. Provide an analysis of potential residential privacy concerns and develop a range of mitigation measures and costs.

2.8.11 Accessibility – TransLink’s policies require that all new transit facilities are fully accessible. Comment on the accessibility of a gondola as compared to existing conditions (bus transit) and how best practices in universally accessible design are applied to the system design.

2.8.12 Cycling – High demand for use of the gondola by commuter and recreational cyclists is anticipated. The Contractor should describe the gondola’s ability to carry bicycles.

2.8.13 Passenger Security - There may be a perception that unstaffed, gondola cabins have a greater security risk, notwithstanding the requirement for full-time staffing of the terminals. The Contractor should comment on security risks, how best to mitigate them, and the associated costs. Additional costs associated with deterring vandalism should also be addressed.

2.8.14 Passenger Comfort – Comment on the need for climate control (heating and ventilation) inside the gondola cabins, feasibility, and the associated costs.

Develop the system, Operating and Maintenance (O&M) costs including but not limited to the following:

2.9.1 Operating hours – The gondola would be expected to operate 20.5 hours/day, 365 days/year. Any required adjustments from this schedule for technical reasons should be detailed.

2.9.2 Operating costs - Five main costs are expected to constitute the operation budget of the gondola: energy, salaries, maintenance, insurance and capital reserve. The Contractor will refine the operating cost estimate.

2.9.3 Maintenance and renewal costs - It is estimated that over a 25-year period a capital reserve of $7M to $10M will be required for the replacement or improvements of major gondola components. The Contractor will confirm and refine these estimates.

2.9.4 Fare and revenue collection – It is expected that the gondola fare collection will be integrated with TransLink’s forthcoming Smart Card and faregate project, which is to be implemented by 2013.

2.9.5 Security – Based on the security and policing costs at other TransLink facilities, the Contractor will provide estimated security costs.

2.9.6 Reliability – The Contractor will assess two aspects of system reliability:

2.9.6.1 Operating reliability relative to bus service (based on weather, traffic delays, breakdowns), looking at historical performance of bus service on Burnaby Mountain and historical performance of a similar gondola system.

2.9.6.2 Maintenance requirements/shutdowns - A gondola on Burnaby Mountain would operate on average 20.5 hours a day to match SkyTrain’s hours of operation. As a result, available times for maintenance operations are minimal. Major maintenance activity would need to be scheduled to minimize effects on customers. The Contractor will estimate the frequency, duration and costs of shutdowns, including replacement bus service costs.

2.9.6.3 Disaster Recovery Plan: Responses to power outages, earthquakes, and other foreseeable events.

2.9.7 Emergency Evacuation – Staffing requirements to support emergency evacuation of the gondola should be identified based on best practices.

2.10.1 Bus integration plan – A gondola would provide a high-capacity alternative to bus transportation, and therefore would be able to replace much of the existing bus service.

2.10.2 Service to/from campus – With the operation of a gondola in this location, it has been determined that the service of two of the four bus routes to Burnaby Mountain can be significantly reduced (#143 and #145), one shortened (#144) and one maintained (#135). The Contractor will provide further analysis and recommendations regarding bus service to and from the SFU campus and updated cost savings.

2.10.3 Local service on campus/UniverCity – Provide recommendations and a cost analysis for the provision of local service on Burnaby Mountain, and how local residents, workers, and students will access the gondola.

2.10.4 Implications for SFU Transit Hub design and other bus facilities – Review the design and specifications of the SFU Transit Hub design and comment on both the spatial and financial implications that the provision of a gondola would have on the proposed transit hub design, including any changes to its functional requirements.

2.10.5 Cost/benefit – Develop a thorough cost/benefit analysis of a gondola versus continued bus transit service to Burnaby Mountain, using a multiple account evaluation. The analysis should be consistent with the BC Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure’s Transit Business Case Template.

2.10.6 External benefits – The Contractor should estimate external benefits to SFU and the Trust, if any, in the form of development value, avoided parking, etc.

2.10.7 Environmental analysis (emissions) – Provide a cost-benefit analysis of the emissions reductions that will be achieved by replacing diesel bus trips with gondola trips.

2.10.8 The Contractor will develop a life-cycle financial analysis based on the design for indicative costing and present it in context with the alternative of maintaining and expanding bus service.

2.10.9 The financial analysis should include a range of sensitivities to:

Discount rates – 6% and 10%

Consumer Price Index

Diesel fuel and electricity prices

High and low ridership growth

3.2 The deadline for the submission of the business case to Public-Private Partnerships Canada is March 31, 2011. All work must be completed by this deadline. The contract end date is one month later to allow for any follow-up or resubmission contingencies.

[Buggernut]

Gondolas are too prone to stoppages due to windy weather conditions, aren't they?

[ronthecivil]

Translink is tossing out a big "you figure it out" and if the numbers and plan turn out to be happy they go for it. If they turn out to be outlandish they shelf it. Timeline is kind of short but overall they are actually playing this out not too shabbily.

[nitronuts]

Gondolas are too prone to stoppages due to windy weather conditions, aren't they?

Peak to Peak is designed to run in winds up to 80 km/h.

[ronthecivil]

Gondolas are too prone to stoppages due to windy weather conditions, aren't they?

If the gondola is unable to operate under the local weather conditions you reject the design (obviously). That's why it's a good idea to make someone else figure out how to do that.