Weber's Playoff Beard Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Naw, it'd be a TURBO escalator! A TURBO COVERED escalator! good thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 Naw, it'd be a TURBO escalator! A TURBO COVERED escalator! ...or even better: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Well Nitro though we might not agree on a short term phase 0.5 extension of millenium to the RAV line I think you would at least agree to do a phase 0.5 extension to Port Moody station. That would make a massive increase in WCE ridership since it would VASTLY increase the number of legitimate destinations one could make on it (and make the ideas of a Burnaby WCE stop and what not redundant) and since it's only half the distance they might already have enough money set aside to at least put it that far. It would also be already pointing in the agreed direction and route and there's an existing parking lot that could be turned into a bus loop to accomidate express buses from Coquitlam during the rush and from Mission during hours when WCE was not running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 http://www.vancouversun.com/Aging+Pattullo+Bridge+needs+replaced+refurbished+report/4805808/story.html Hopefully this is a transit story of sorts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 http://www.vancouver...5808/story.html Hopefully this is a transit story of sorts... The second review was just a stall tactic IMO. They already had reports that it was going to fall apart (and then it did fall apart!) so perhaps it's just politics. And rest assured it will be tolled the free alternative was never going to happen. I have been calling it the south fraser screenline since gateway was announced. And while this is going to be primarily road there will be some good news for sure for you transit types. For one it will be tolled so that makes demand management more feasible. If you make it six lanes you can put in HOV lanes and then you could actually have some pretty skookum feader bus routes that go between the skytrain stations on either side. It will also have bike and pedestrian capacity that is actually attractive. You build dense communities on top of the north and south fraser perimeter roads (effectively tunneling them) and you could actually make it into a very attractive walkable twin city riverfront community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 The second review was just a stall tactic IMO. They already had reports that it was going to fall apart (and then it did fall apart!) so perhaps it's just politics. And rest assured it will be tolled the free alternative was never going to happen. I have been calling it the south fraser screenline since gateway was announced. And while this is going to be primarily road there will be some good news for sure for you transit types. For one it will be tolled so that makes demand management more feasible. If you make it six lanes you can put in HOV lanes and then you could actually have some pretty skookum feader bus routes that go between the skytrain stations on either side. It will also have bike and pedestrian capacity that is actually attractive. You build dense communities on top of the north and south fraser perimeter roads (effectively tunneling them) and you could actually make it into a very attractive walkable twin city riverfront community. transit types? when are you going to grow up and get past the us vs them bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 transit types? when are you going to grow up and get past the us vs them bs. It's not a contest to recognise other people's points of view. Why not comment on the topic rather than my so called bad attitude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 It's not a contest to recognise other people's points of view. Why not comment on the topic rather than my so called bad attitude? Because I'm calling out the whole paradigm on which your argument rests. If you go into a discussion with 'us vs them' as your starting point, well guess what the result will be. This whole ridiculous bike lane vs transit vs car debate is stupid. It's not anything vs anything. It's not satisfying 'transit types' or cyclists or drivers. It's moving people around the region in a fast, affordable, frequent, reliable and efficient manner. The topic is the new bridge. I don't know the details but I'd probably agree it's past its due date and needs replacing. But perhaps it's an opportunity to replace it with something that will work for everyone--not just more lanes of traffic. But of course I hold little hope for that as we're already deep deep deep into highway investments. I don't think that will stop til the oil runs out or the price gets too high. Then watch crape hit the fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Because I'm calling out the whole paradigm on which your argument rests. If you go into a discussion with 'us vs them' as your starting point, well guess what the result will be. This whole ridiculous bike lane vs transit vs car debate is stupid. It's not anything vs anything. It's not satisfying 'transit types' or cyclists or drivers. It's moving people around the region in a fast, affordable, frequent, reliable and efficient manner. The topic is the new bridge. I don't know the details but I'd probably agree it's past its due date and needs replacing. But perhaps it's an opportunity to replace it with something that will work for everyone--not just more lanes of traffic. But of course I hold little hope for that as we're already deep deep deep into highway investments. I don't think that will stop til the oil runs out or the price gets too high. Then watch crape hit the fan. My paradim is to have highly functional bike lanes AND transit AND roads where you use cost as the motivating factor. The options for the bridge will be a four lane structure with actual bike lanes and ped access or a six lane structure with HOV lanes and bike/ped access so it will be a wash for car traffic. All the capacity increases will be in the form of alternate modes. There's no way you make a six lane no HOV structure since there isn't capacity on the ajoining roads to deal with that (even remotely) and there will be a toll to help with demand management. What would you suggest above and beyond that to as you say "replace it with something that will work for everyone"? I guess we could look at fixing the rail link as well but that would be insanely $$$ (probably three billion dollars). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 My paradim is to have highly functional bike lanes AND transit AND roads where you use cost as the motivating factor. The options for the bridge will be a four lane structure with actual bike lanes and ped access or a six lane structure with HOV lanes and bike/ped access so it will be a wash for car traffic. All the capacity increases will be in the form of alternate modes. There's no way you make a six lane no HOV structure since there isn't capacity on the ajoining roads to deal with that (even remotely) and there will be a toll to help with demand management. What would you suggest above and beyond that to as you say "replace it with something that will work for everyone"? I guess we could look at fixing the rail link as well but that would be insanely $$$ (probably three billion dollars). Since when is spending 3 billion dollars insanely $$$? We're doing right now on expanding a highway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Since when is spending 3 billion dollars insanely $$$? We're doing right now on expanding a highway! You would need one hell of a toll on the Putello to pay for the capital cost of it AND the rail bridge. Simply replacing the bridge should be within the hulu hoop for recovering the cost through tolls. Since it has a much higher volume the highway expansion can have a higher capital cost since it's capable of generating much more toll revenue. Also it's not translink's mandate to fix the rail (and there's a hell of an argument that it's not the governments at any level) though I suppose if Uncle Steve wants to hand over a couple billion to fix the rail bridge we should oblige him though it's not where I would put two billion dollars if I had it. So again what should they do to make the new Putello better for everyone (other than complain about gateway....)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I wish they would just toll ALL the bridges, tunnels and hell, why not the new Sea to Sky too. Then they could charge "affordable" rates...say $1 and wouldn't have people all trying to cram on to the Alex Fraser to avoid paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 OH FYI if you assume a 5% interest rate then you can finance the new bridge with a $2 toll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I wish they would just toll ALL the bridges, tunnels and hell, why not the new Sea to Sky too. Then they could charge "affordable" rates...say $1 and wouldn't have people all trying to cram on to the Alex Fraser to avoid paying. Put HOV lanes on all of 91 and 99 and pay for it with a toll on the Alex Fraser. Either put in another tunnel or build a bridge at the Massey tunnel and toll that as well. Then you can actually tweak the tolls on an hourly basis to help enourage distributed traffic loads as well as spreading out the peak. Only the third item I feel will not be pretty much a given eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Put HOV lanes on all of 91 and 99 and pay for it with a toll on the Alex Fraser. Either put in another tunnel or build a bridge at the Massey tunnel and toll that as well. Then you can actually tweak the tolls on an hourly basis to help enourage distributed traffic loads as well as spreading out the peak. Only the third item I feel will not be pretty much a given eventually. A new bridge to replace the tunnel is MOT's priority after the whole Hwy 1 widening bs. That and the Oak Street brige replacement. That's from the mouth of an MOT rep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trek Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Buses would not be taken away entirely, less will just be used. The 145 is ridiulous though. I learned eventually to just go to Sperling Station and get the 144. not as hectic and way more room. I won the b-lot lottery in my 2nd year. So I just drove my car lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 A new bridge to replace the tunnel is MOT's priority after the whole Hwy 1 widening bs. That and the Oak Street brige replacement. That's from the mouth of an MOT rep. I would expect that to happen litteraly moments after they start getting revenue from the toll on the new Port Mann given the public doesn't seem to mind tolls so long as you improve the facility since it ultimately generates revenue for the province and makes the public happy and creates jobs. The only real decision is if they want to make it a south fraser or north fraser screenline. I figure south fraser but if they are keen on replacing the oak street bridge as well it could be that they plan on making it a north fraser screenline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Put HOV lanes on all of 91 and 99 and pay for it with a toll on the Alex Fraser. Either put in another tunnel or build a bridge at the Massey tunnel and toll that as well. Then you can actually tweak the tolls on an hourly basis to help enourage distributed traffic loads as well as spreading out the peak. Only the third item I feel will not be pretty much a given eventually. They need to get on that ASAP. Ever since new toll bridges and Port Mann construction it's been pushing traffic to the 91 and 99 and making my commute freaking hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 They need to get on that ASAP. Ever since new toll bridges and Port Mann construction it's been pushing traffic to the 91 and 99 and making my commute freaking hell. Ya, the province pressuring translink to try to come up with a non tolled way to build the new bridge is pretty silly IMO. Since the only demand management tool for a toll free bridge would be congestion it basically would guarantee that the putello would be permananantly congested (and New West along with it). Every time they have the position all I can think is "what, do you hate New West or something?". Just like as soon as the Port Mann is tolled people will start using the Golden ears since they won't have a free option anymore. Unless you toll the entire crossing you are simply dooming the untolled crossing to permanant congestion. The funny thing is that even if they HOVed 91/99 they already have that for most of it. Only expensive thing to improve that route to full on freeway with HOV would be the intersection that goes into Surrey that would have to be built on one side (other side is Burns Bog) on crappy soil but even with that doozy the toll would be almost pure profit (hello south of fraser transit funding source). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 or we just get a gast tax to cover all this crap with no tolls on anything. Just pick one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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