EmployeeoftheMonth Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I think one apect of this debate that MG supporters are missing is that the canucks stated in Botch's article that the sole reason for not submitting an offer sheet to weber is that they feel that Nashville will match it. If nashville does match then MG is off the hook. I think all this criticism of MG is premature. However, if Weber ends up in philly then MG screwed up big time since: - canucks had no problems with the long term contract, the cap hit and its heavy front load - Weber was interested in coming here since he met with us and only four other teams - it would only cost us four late first rounders - we need a franchise D man while our Sedins and Kesler window is open - cap concerns could be alleviated with some salary dumping like ballard, Lu. - we could acquire a power forward thu free agency (doan) or trade (move booth, another D, if necessary) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Oh, please. Just stop, and leave, if you're not going to make any relevant points. Columbus missing out on Shea Weber doesn't mean as much as Vancouver missing out on him. Shea Weber wanted to come here, the Aquilini's wanted to bring him in, Mike Gillis did not act. That's how this story goes, if you're inclined to agree with guys like Ed Willes and Jason Botchford, who I have no problem doing. Heck, LAWRENCE GILMAN is quoted as saying that they were prepared to do whatever it took to get him! Check out Botchford's recent article on the offer sheet. Weber was EXACTLY what we needed; the missing piece. And all it would've cost was cash and picks, but Holmgren beat Gillis to the punch. I really do think that it was basically that simple. In the meeting, Weber probably stated the type of deal that he was looking for, and Gillis either didn't agree with the value, or just thought to wait. Either way, he LOST. This "29 other teams" rhetoric is a real loser's attitude. 29 other teams aren't under a tight deadline to win a Cup, 29 other teams aren't 1 horse defenseman away from perhaps being the favourite again, 24 other teams weren't the 5 that Weber had expressed interest in, etc. NOT A RELEVANT POINT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 My example of Tanev is just to make a point. How many RFAs does Philly have coming up in the next few years? What if Nashville offer sheets them in retaliation? Oh, they could just try and sign them all, but what if they don't have the cap space after the Weber deal? Part of it being a business is to keep healthy business relationships with your peers. It's not like you can do a corporate takeover of every other team or put them out of business. You still have to be able to make deals to be successful rather than rely on drafting alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 I believe the difference between Edler and Weber is very marginal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 If Nashville does make a trade with his right or matches this offer though will the anti-Gillis gladiators admit that he made a good decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesler_smash Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 Love how you remove the context of that statement and your only counter argument is the word wow. Congrats bud. You are only one small step above a troll based on what I've read in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesler_smash Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I'm not sure how much context is needed what a statement is as black-and-white as that. If you want, I could've included the "Shea Weber is overrated" opening statement (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeMinisterBure Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Once again leaving out the reasons I wrote that sentence, and still with no counter arguments to speak of. Explain to me how you are not a troll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Sorry, but do you even understand how this process works? Gillis & co. didn't make an offer because they assumed that Nashville would just match. There was/is NO DOWNSIDE for the Philadelphia Flyers. You certainly won't hear from me that Gillis made a good decision, if Nashville chooses to match. I'd rather expose myself to the POSSIBILITY of landing Shea Weber, at a cost of 4 1st round picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesler_smash Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 That thought doesn't deserve more than a one-word response from King of the ES, as NO ONE ELSE IN THE WORLD WOULD SAY THE SAME THING. That is insanity. If the Canucks already have a Weber on the team, then why in the world would Gillis show any interest in him in the first place? And if you truly believe that the difference in skill level between Edler and Weber is so minimal--which, again, is about the most ludicrous thing I've heard since before I can remember--shouldn't you be pissed at Gillis (rather than supporting him, as you and every other follower is doing on here) for even considering tendering Weber an offer sheet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Love how you remove the context of that statement and your only counter argument is the word wow. Congrats bud. You are only one small step above a troll based on what I've read in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 There also absolutely is a downside as I have already stated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Once again leaving out the reasons I wrote that sentence, and still with no counter arguments to speak of. Explain to me how you are not a troll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 I'm sorry but Edler at 3.25mil/per or Weber at 8mil/per when Edler faces a revolving door of partners who aren't as defensively sound as Suter or are in the twilight of their careers is a ridiculous difference for players that I still believe are very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I must've missed this, so please do explain the downside to the Vancouver Canucks if they were to sign Weber to a contract, and Nashville was to match it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeMinisterBure Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 There's not a big difference between them at all, you're right. How I see it: Weber is better, but not leaps and bounds like people make him out to be. They see Weber as being from BC (and we know that if you're from BC, you're obligated to play here. CDC thinks this at least), he is a mean prick and he has a bomb from the point and this gets people excited and biased immediately instead of letting facts do the speaking. He is sexier than Edler in that sense. Yes, Weber is a bit bigger, stronger and he can play mean and all of this leads up to him being more physical than Edler and nothing more. However, statistically speaking, he is no better offensively than Edler is. Weber is a better goal scorer, yes, but so what? Overall, he is not better than Edler offensively. Weber is not worth selling off four first round picks for a player to play in a position that does not need to be addressed on this team. Shea Weber is not worth the near two million dollars more than Edler is after he gets his new contract. Plus, I can just see people whining and crying about how we gave up too much for Weber and he didn't quite pan out like everyone had expected or the sadly but strong possibility is that even with him we may not win the Cup. People cry about Luongo's cap hit now but his cap hit is a bargain in comparison to other goalies in the league. Nearly 8 million for Weber is absurd.And we also don't have the luxury of giving up four first rounders given our young talent pool is pathetic to begin with. The Flyers have this advantage over us by a mile. At the end of the day it's the safer and probably smarter move. People are also forgetting about Doan, which costs us nothing at all but money and the shipping of a redundant piece in Luongo which should bring us a respectable return. That is more than good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NucksBruins Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 How about Keith Ballard? Wasn't he a top 4 defenseman in Flordia? Look how well that experiement has turned out. I'm very wary of players acquired from Florida mainly because their division sucks and all their players' production significantly falls after departing to a new team. Another reason why is because I feel our scouting is among the worst in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 Every year for 15 years I read about the Wings window closing and how their vets were going to retire and it would end for them. Even though they lost half their blueline through retirement, trade etc., I am scared to write that team off. I just don't see why the Canucks can't be the next team to follow that template. When the WCE line went stale, everyone said the Sedins would never be first liners and the team was in deep trouble. Maybe Jensen, Gaunce and Kassian take the reigns 3-4 years from now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrrFour Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Why panic? The Kings won this year through solid moves and no panic. The Bruins did the same the year before. Remember the Bruins were up three games to zero on Philly and blew it. They then made a few changes to the roster and the next year they are champs and everyone talks about how dominant they were. I seem to remember swearing a lot at that dominant team in 2010 (especially Wideman, God I hated him with the Bruins). There is no reason, on paper, that the Canucks cannot contend for or win the Cup in 2013, even without Shea Weber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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