Vision Vancouver's War on Cars

[ronthecivil]

I love the way White Rock does it.

Give everyone in White Rock that can prove they live there a yearly pass for about $35 (and apparently it used to be much less).

Then charge everyone else 3 bucks an hour to park just about anywhere, especially at the beach. Apparently parking revenue makes up something like 1/3 of city revenue.

Only thing I was thinking was they should jack it even higher on long weekends. It was a mad house at the beach.

Really, the whole debate should be based on free market rates. If the city CAN get huge amounts of money for their high demand parking areas, why shouldn't they? Why should they be undercutting the private sector garages?

I see it as a completely different issue than their (often maximizing inconvenience to motorists for modest gains in cycling accessibility) fascination with improving cycling.

Heck, if they were charging market rates all along they probably could afford the Cadillac solutions for making things work for everyone (like say for Burrard putting in bus lanes instead of bike lanes and instead putting in a new cycling/ped bridge to connect Kits with downtown directly) which would make things faster for all forms of transport.

But of course that would go against the REAL war against the car which long predates Greggor which is the policy to not increase road capacity by any means anywhere ever.

[ronthecivil]

It's up to the people to put their money where their mouths are. People want transit, but also want a big yard on a suburban street. They need to realize that these things don't mix.

People want skytrain out to Langley and White Rock. Check out this map of subway systems to scale. Vancouver is down near the bottom. Compare it to NYC. King George station is already as far away from downtown Vancouver as the farthest stops in NYC are from downtown Manhattan. You don't keep extending the subway at great expense into lesser and lesser dense areas - you do the opposite. Double down on dense population and transit.

What Vancouver needs is more subways in the city of Vancouver itself, with some lines extending into Burnaby. Re-zone a lot of the land for low-rise apartments and mixed-use residential/commercial. Densify the population around dense mass transit

[ronthecivil]

This is never going to happen and would be awful for the city. LA is hardly a model to emulate for Vancouver.

Once you realize that we are not getting more roads ever, and will have to deal with the corridors we have, you will come closer to realizing that this is a mathematical formula, no different than trying to get water through a pipe.

The only way to increase volume is to increase the speed at which cars travel and every main corridor we have goes through a neighbourhood.

The only way to keep the roads in Vancouver tenable is to make certain we don't increase the volume of cars on the roads, in certain areas, and to provide other options for people moving.

It's a crap situation we are in, the fault of the previous city planners and the increase of migrants to the city, for which we need to find solutions. Vehicle levies are the tested option from major city models all over the world.

Blaming only the current Mayor's office for this transit corridor dilemna is simple politicking. Nowhere else in this thread, while people complain about their own vested interest, have offered up another solution to our impending transit crisis. If you find blame with the current model, show us a better alternative.

[silverpig]

Of course the people that are well outside of NYC tend to be in an entirely different STATE so it's pretty unlikely they are subsidizing said transit system they can't use via local property and fuel taxes.

[silverpig]

Going for market-rate parking like that would cause people to say it's a class war with rich people parking their Mercedes whenever they like while keeping Joe Blow and his Ford Tempo relegated to the less desirable long weekend spots.

I agree about the turn bays and one-way streets. Too bad Vancouver got rid of the one-way streets downtown because they were "too confusing"

[ronthecivil]

Long Island goes on for quite a ways.

Look at any of the other cities there with good transit systems. Tokyo, Moscow, Paris... All very dense and compact. HK looks pretty sparse but you have to understand that the area in the middle is Victoria Harbour (all water), the line going way to the left is the airport, and the little strip going east-west on the south part of the system serves something like 8M people in a very very dense strip of skyscrapers.

[ronthecivil]

Going for market-rate parking like that would cause people to say it's a class war with rich people parking their Mercedes whenever they like while keeping Joe Blow and his Ford Tempo relegated to the less desirable long weekend spots.

I agree about the turn bays and one-way streets. Too bad Vancouver got rid of the one-way streets downtown because they were "too confusing"

[theminister]

Not even remotely true.

You can greatly increase capacity by putting in one way streets, turn bays, and synchronized traffic controls that can move waves of vehicles at whatever speed you decide you want to time the lights at/enforce and greatly increase capacity at existing traffic speeds.

Not that Vancouver would ever dream of doing that.

[ronthecivil]

You and I said the same thing. Traffic controls are for exactly that reason.... to get cars to move more quickly. Ie. less idle time.

All of these traffic improvements would cost money to install...money that would need to be generated most likely from vehicle operators.

Personally, I'm a big fan of roundabouts. If people in this city knew how to use them properly they could be a large improvement over light controlled intersections.

If you look at the reaction from drivers to paying for parking in this thread, I can only imagine the vitriol for the city were they to decide to make one-way streets and massive traffic alterations. It would be Armageddon.

[theminister]

Having less idle time and operating speeds are two different things. You seem to be describing scenarios where cars are racing through neighborhoods as the only way to increase capacity which is not true.

The overwhelming majority of changes that I could think of would require no more than paint and signage changes that would be included in normal maintenance or as part of other projects.

[ronthecivil]

I understand you read it that way. Do you understand that's not how I meant it?

I was pointing out how we are not getting more corridors.... we have to work with the ones we have.

Flow = Speed

To handle more volume you need to increase the speed by eliminating the inefficiencies, but even by doing as you describe make roads harder to cross without overpasses.

[Kass9]

Traffic in Vancouver wouldn't be so bad if we didn't have sh!tty drivers, and we have tons of them.

[Raph]

It's not even about extending the mass transit to Cloverdale or what not. We need to improve what we already have. Even living in East Vancouver, bus service is so crappy people don't use it. The buses come every 15-20 mins, and that's only on a good day when they aren't late.

And extending Skytrain hours past 1am would help immensely and would probably help reduce drunk drivers at the same time.

I also don't understand why they reduce service so much on Sunday. I actually find Sunday one of the busiest days to use transit since the services taken out is vastly greater than the people who are not using the services.

But then again, transit in Canada works on a completely backwards business model. They wait for the demand to go overcapacity then they attempt to improve it. Usually in business, you build it first and then they will come. Essentially we're just being milked for profits much like the cell phone providers. Which I guess works since they are all monopolies/oligopolies.

[TOMapleLaughs]

Frankly, if the alternative is wrecking our view of the mountains by putting up a disgusting Seattle-style maze of overpasses over overpasses, i'm alright with Vancouver taking up a strong position on car traffic. The key, however, would be to provide alternate modes of transportation.

People are just going to have to suck it up.

[TOMapleLaughs]

We can start improving traffic here by having hov lane drivers be ticketed if they drive too slow. Get out of the way, idiot.

[Wetcoaster]

We can start improving traffic here by having hov lane drivers be ticketed if they drive too slow. Get out of the way, idiot.

[Common sense]

On what grounds? HOV lanes are not designated express lanes.

[Wetcoaster]

If the driver on the HOV lane is driving at dangerously low speeds, then isn't he/she in violation of MVA section 150(2) - http://www.bclaws.ca...eeside/96318_05

[Electro Rock]

Frankly, if the alternative is wrecking our view of the mountains by putting up a disgusting Seattle-style maze of overpasses over overpasses, i'm alright with Vancouver taking up a strong position on car traffic. The key, however, would be to provide alternate modes of transportation.

People are just going to have to suck it up.

[TOMapleLaughs]

Hey... Bikes aren't noisy. Lol.

Frankly, i'm pro-any solution that doesn't involve more roads. The alternatives include fewer people being able to drive on them and/or having them use alternate modes of transportation.

So some businesses are moving out to car-friendly areas? And? I don't view this to be a problem at all. Vancouver is already elitist, so what's wrong with making those people pay the appropiate amount to be there?

You cannot bring about massive change in habits until they are forced to. I'm expecting tolls and taxes to increase indefinitely, despite public outcry. The car-per-person mode of transportation in a metro area is totally unsustainable.