Offensive Threat Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Okay, how would US government thugs enforce those laws on bitcoin users, especially those outside the police state that is the US? The same way they forced Swiss banks to give up all their info on US citizens hiding funds there. By strongarming the international community to force changes to international law along with most industrialized nations to adopt the framework they built. China and a few other countries have outlawed trading in Bitcoins outright but once it becomes controlled they will join in. The Swiss thing was difficult, there was a lot of resistance from immensely powerful Swiss banks, here there will be what, a few guys in a basement somewhere? to cry about it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianLoonie Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 The same way they forced Swiss banks to give up all their info on US citizens hiding funds there. By strongarming the international community to force changes to international law along with most industrialized nations to adopt the framework they built. China and a few other countries have outlawed trading in Bitcoins outright but once it becomes controlled they will join in. The Swiss thing was difficult, there was a lot of resistance from immensely powerful Swiss banks, here there will be what, a few guys in a basement somewhere? to cry about it.. Again, the US only got what it wanted because it can otherwise take punitive actions against those who are non-compliant by threatening to exclude those institutions from access to it's market....or most threatening to the business of the banks, from "legally" being able to use the US dollar. But with Bitcoin, banks are obsolescent...you become your own bank when you have your wallet in a smartphone or flash drive...how do you plan to stop individuals who want to conduct a free, willing exchange of goods? Drugs are illegal, apparently, but the free market is still able to produce and move product to meet customers' demand...and drugs are bulky physical products! What seriously makes you think the police state can stop some digital information from being transferred? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offensive Threat Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Again, the US only got what it wanted because it can otherwise take punitive actions against those who are non-compliant by threatening to exclude those institutions from access to it's market....or most threatening to the business of the banks, from "legally" being able to use the US dollar. But with Bitcoin, banks are obsolescent...you become your own bank when you have your wallet in a smartphone or flash drive...how do you plan to stop individuals who want to conduct a free, willing exchange of goods? Drugs are illegal, apparently, but the free market is still able to produce and move product to meet customers' demand...and drugs are bulky physical products! What seriously makes you think the police state can stop some digital information from being transferred? Are the banks aware they are obsolete? The billions in profits they make must be obsolete money too. The fact that no retailers other than a few small coffee shops or wahtever accept Bitcoins doesnt seem to phase you in this fantasy land you are living in. I like how you are comparing Bitcoins to Illegal Drugs. That comparison actually holds some water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Again, the US only got what it wanted because it can otherwise take punitive actions against those who are non-compliant by threatening to exclude those institutions from access to it's market....or most threatening to the business of the banks, from "legally" being able to use the US dollar. But with Bitcoin, banks are obsolescent...you become your own bank when you have your wallet in a smartphone or flash drive...how do you plan to stop individuals who want to conduct a free, willing exchange of goods? Drugs are illegal, apparently, but the free market is still able to produce and move product to meet customers' demand...and drugs are bulky physical products! What seriously makes you think the police state can stop some digital information from being transferred? soooo, bitcoins are akin to drugs, is what you are saying... instead of "bitcoins are used by drug traffickers to help hide their transactions" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianLoonie Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Are the banks aware they are obsolete? The billions in profits they make must be obsolete money too. The fact that no retailers other than a few small coffee shops or wahtever accept Bitcoins doesnt seem to phase you in this fantasy land you are living in. I like how you are comparing Bitcoins to Illegal Drugs. That comparison actually holds some water. When did it became apparent to government-owned/operated post offices that a combination of Internet protocols SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer Protocol), POP (Post Office Protocol) and IMAP (Internet Message Access Protocol) that collectively makes email work, was going to make their business model obsolete? The banking industry is a government-sanctioned cartel that not only serves as distribution points of central bank-issued, government-fiat, debt-based currency units, but further inflates the supply of currency units with the dishonest practice of fractional-reserve banking, and thus debases the purchasing power of any previously existing currency units. An absolutely fraudulent business model. That is 'legal', but is it ethically right? Drugs are 'illegal' to produce/possess/consume, but is it ethically right for the government to have control over what you put in your own body? Taxation is 'legal', but is it ethically right for the government to commit armed robbery, engage in theft, and use coercion to steal the product of your labour? And land can be bought with Bitcoins...http://galtsgulchchile.com/ ...in fact they'd preferred it enough to offer a discount for Bitcoin payers! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 When did it became apparent to government-owned/operated post offices that a combination of Internet protocols SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer Protocol), POP (Post Office Protocol) and IMAP (Internet Message Access Protocol) that collectively makes email work, was going to make their business model obsolete? The banking industry is a government-sanctioned cartel that not only serves as distribution points of central bank-issued, government-fiat, debt-based currency units, but further inflates the supply of currency units with the dishonest practice of fractional-reserve banking, and thus debases the purchasing power of any previously existing currency units. An absolutely fraudulent business model. That is 'legal', but is it ethically right? Drugs are 'illegal' to produce/possess/consume, but is it ethically right for the government to have control over what you put in your own body? Taxation is 'legal', but is it ethically right for the government to commit armed robbery, engage in theft, and use coercion to steal the product of your labour? And land can be bought with Bitcoins...http://galtsgulchchile.com/ ...in fact they'd preferred it enough to offer a discount for Bitcoin payers! Very well thought out post. I appreciate the honesty, especially the government fiat. I have believed for many years now that if we knew the truth about how much in reserves we have, we would promptly turn into the Weimar Republic. So the truth is world currency is already just imaginary numbers floating around various computers that talk to each other. Each government slipping in some 'qualitative easing' whenever it needs some extra dough. Regardless if they announce it or just make up a number and feed it into the reserve bank. I have no problem with bit coin with caveat; The governments have to make their currency work because the people will riot if their purchasing power collapses. The people who thought up Bit Coin have no such restraint and can flood it with more bitcoin or just like any other stock cash huge piles of it out making the remaining virtually worthless. It was a novel idea to transfer monies and other 'things of value' around without Interpol or the CIA catching wind of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offensive Threat Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 And land can be bought with Bitcoins...http://galtsgulchchile.com/ ...in fact they'd preferred it enough to offer a discount for Bitcoin payers! Well lets all move to some farm in the middle of Chile. This is what makes Bitcoin legit? This is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianLoonie Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Well lets all move to some farm in the middle of Chile. This is what makes Bitcoin legit? This is it? Any medium of exchange is legit if the parties of the transaction freely agree and consent to it's use...is the idea really that difficult to comprehend and accept? And are my points above in the post clear to your understanding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianLoonie Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) Very well thought out post. I appreciate the honesty, especially the government fiat. I have believed for many years now that if we knew the truth about how much in reserves we have, we would promptly turn into the Weimar Republic. So the truth is world currency is already just imaginary numbers floating around various computers that talk to each other. Each government slipping in some 'qualitative easing' whenever it needs some extra dough. Regardless if they announce it or just make up a number and feed it into the reserve bank. I have no problem with bit coin with caveat; The governments have to make their currency work because the people will riot if their purchasing power collapses. The people who thought up Bit Coin have no such restraint and can flood it with more bitcoin or just like any other stock cash huge piles of it out making the remaining virtually worthless. It was a novel idea to transfer monies and other 'things of value' around without Interpol or the CIA catching wind of it. Anyone can create their own Bitcoin-like crypto-currency, but Bitcoin itself is code-limited to 21 million coins maximum, a figure that won't be reached till 2140. We can make a Canuckscoin right now, but if no-one chooses to use it, it'll remain valueless. But at least you have a choice, unlike the government-back, 'legitimized' monopoly that previously existed. Free Markets + Technology...what a combination, eh? Edited May 11, 2014 by CanadianLoonie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offensive Threat Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Anyone can create their own Bitcoin-like crypto-currency, but Bitcoin itself is code-limited to 21 million coins maximum, a figure that won't be reached till 2140. We can make a Canuckscoin right now, but if no-one chooses to use it, it'll remain valueless. But at least you have a choice, unlike the government-back, 'legitimized' monopoly that previously existed. Free Markets + Technology...what a combination, eh? The problem you dont seem willing to acknowledge is that nobody, outside of a few liberal Chilean hippies, accepts Bitcoin as a legit currency. The SEC and IRS are interested because of the shenanigans going on from fraud and market manipulation to outright theft. American citizens who are getting ripped off are complaining to them, so they decide to get involved. Bitcoin does have value or rather its underlying technology has value. That technology may be used in the future for a wide array of financial transactions as we progress to a truly cashless system (Interac or Paypal may adopt a more secure version of it). But it will be within the banking system you despise so. Whether the Bitcoin survives to see it depends on a little market maturity and a lot of luck. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianLoonie Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 The problem you dont seem willing to acknowledge is that nobody, outside of a few liberal Chilean hippies, accepts Bitcoin as a legit currency. You really like 'legitimacy'...as if someone/something/higher power bigger than yourself has to approve of something before you'll accept it... And you are very sloppy at doing research, for that project is not conceptualized and initiated by liberals, nor Chileans, nor hippies. Try again. The SEC and IRS are interested because of the shenanigans going on from fraud and market manipulation to outright theft. American citizens who are getting ripped off are complaining to them, so they decide to get involved. The SEC is a toothless and irrelevant regulatory organ of the US government sucking up 'legitimately' stolen funds like a parasite. That and engaging in corporate cronyism with the US capital markets industry. A disgrace to proper capitalism. The IRS is a criminal extortionist-arm of the US government mafia that commits armed robbery and "outright theft" on the world-wide income of every productive American citizen simply because they are American citizens, no matter where in the world they live/work/where that income was generated, whether the taxpayer acquired US citizenship by choice (naturalization) or by accident (birth on US soil or descent from US parent). But it's 'legit', eh? To be an American citizen is to be a tax-slave with the smart and wiser ones who recognize the situation taking appropriate steps to free themselves by renouncing their US citizenship (e.g. Eduardo Saverin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Anyone can create their own Bitcoin-like crypto-currency, but Bitcoin itself is code-limited to 21 million coins maximum, a figure that won't be reached till 2140. We can make a Canuckscoin right now, but if no-one chooses to use it, it'll remain valueless. But at least you have a choice, unlike the government-back, 'legitimized' monopoly that previously existed. Free Markets + Technology...what a combination, eh? The bitcoin works like a stock. Bit coin fluctuates with the market and there is no control over its value. It can plummet into the ground. This idea that nobody can duplicate the bitcoin to create more is fantasy. Every currency ever created can be duplicated. There is nothing stopping computer gurus from figuring out how to create more bitcoin or convince the bitcoin master computer it 'paid' for purchasing millions more when that actual currency was never exchanged. There is no army, or force to protect the bitcoin and no over seer accountable to the general public's well being. Its a virtual stock that is just begging to become a scam. This is why the goverments monetary 'scam' will continue to work as it must retain the purchasing power of the currency for the general public or we will be plunged into a global economic nightmare of proportions that I do not have time to describe here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 The SEC is a toothless and irrelevant regulatory organ of the US government sucking up 'legitimately' stolen funds like a parasite. That and engaging in corporate cronyism with the US capital markets industry. A disgrace to proper capitalism. This is not the main purpose of the SEC. The SEC is a concept. Without a regulatory body like the SEC, the overwhelming capital required to invest and trade stocks would cease to exist. The public would not invest in stocks. They need to believe there is an agency capable of keeping it basically honest. Arresting Bernie Madoff was a huge PR victory for the SEC when it looked like it would go down in infamy in 2008. Its the same as saying the Police or Army maintain law and order. If the people decided to riot, there is about 1 police officer per every 10000 people. They would get crushed. Goodbye law and order. Lets put it this way. There are 350,000,000 Americans. The United States has a standing army of all its worldwide forces combined of about 2million. If the people attacked they would be liquidated in about 10 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianLoonie Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 The SEC and IRS are interested because of the shenanigans going on from fraud and market manipulation to outright theft. Bitcoin does have value or rather its underlying technology has value. That technology may be used in the future for a wide array of financial transactions as we progress to a truly cashless system (Interac or Paypal may adopt a more secure version of it). But it will be within the banking system you despise so. Whether the Bitcoin survives to see it depends on a little market maturity and a lot of luck. What exactly does 'market manipulation' mean to you? To me, market manipulation is when force or coercion is used to unduly influence and effect an otherwise free market and it's participants. So how about this...the US government via the IRS is conducting market manipulation by taxing it's citizens/resident aliens therefore lowering personal/household disposable income from it's maximum potential, thus lowering the amount that could be spent on the consumption of goods and services in the wider economy. Ceteris paribus, of course. Or how about this...the Federal Reserve via the banking system is conducting market manipulation just by trying to practice monetary policy by trying to set interest rates, or adjusting reserve requirements or outright quantitative easing, thus creating monetary inflation and eroding the purchasing power of the currency and causing asset bubbles. Again, ceteris paribus. Governments and central banks are the largest practitioners of market manipulation in the world. And by trying to ban/restrict/regulate Bitcoin, that too is market manipulation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianLoonie Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 The bitcoin works like a stock. Bit coin fluctuates with the market and there is no control over its value. It can plummet into the ground. This idea that nobody can duplicate the bitcoin to create more is fantasy. Every currency ever created can be duplicated. The Blockchain, the public ledger that makes Bitcoin such a game-changer, prevents this from happening, by design. There is nothing stopping computer gurus from figuring out how to create more bitcoin or convince the bitcoin master computer it 'paid' for purchasing millions more when that actual currency was never exchanged. There is no "Bitcoin master computer", it's decentralized like BitTorrent via the miners, and the Blockchain holds it all together. There is no army, or force to protect the bitcoin and no over seer accountable to the general public's well being. Its a virtual stock that is just begging to become a scam. The Blockchain is designed so that you don't have to trust any one person or group of people with absolute power that sooner or later, will corrupt absolutely...you just have to trust the code, which is open-source, and that the math behind the cryptography works. And a currency that is not back by force or coercion, what a concept, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianLoonie Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 The SEC is a toothless and irrelevant regulatory organ of the US government sucking up 'legitimately' stolen funds like a parasite. That and engaging in corporate cronyism with the US capital markets industry. A disgrace to proper capitalism. Forgot to include this last night... http://www.forbes.com/sites/perianneboring/2014/05/09/secs-investor-warning-on-bitcoin-could-stifle-innovation/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Forgot to include this last night... http://www.forbes.com/sites/perianneboring/2014/05/09/secs-investor-warning-on-bitcoin-could-stifle-innovation/ It was a good thing that you forgot to include it. I searched the author's name in youtube and found some of her financial "reporting". Wow this woman is a special kind of stupid. I could actually hear my brain cells begging for mercy as they were pummeled with her idiotic take on things like quantitative easing. It became clear she's just a pretty face reading a teleprompter and reading it very badly I might add. She's as bad a public speaker as George Bush. Maybe it's a personal fault of mine but I prefer not my get my financial information from "20 something" beauty queens. Presenting the lovely but nonsensical Perianne Boring ........ I doubt you'll ever see a serious journalist like Leslie Stahl jutting her boobs out like that. Then again in fairness maybe she just has the worst case of scoliosis known to mankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianLoonie Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Well, the lamestream media is mainstream, c'est la vie... And her 'hidden assets' appear inflated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianLoonie Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 The IRS is a criminal extortionist-arm of the US government mafia that commits armed robbery and "outright theft" on the world-wide income of every productive American citizen simply because they are American citizens, no matter where in the world they live/work/where that income was generated, whether the taxpayer acquired US citizenship by choice (naturalization) or by accident (birth on US soil or descent from US parent). But it's 'legit', eh? To be an American citizen is to be a tax-slave with the smart and wiser ones who recognize the situation taking appropriate steps to free themselves by renouncing their US citizenship (e.g. Eduardo Saverin) Forgot to include this last night too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) It was a good thing that you forgot to include it. I searched the author's name in youtube and found some of her financial "reporting". Wow this woman is a special kind of stupid. I could actually hear my brain cells begging for mercy as they were pummeled with her idiotic take on things like quantitative easing. It became clear she's just a pretty face reading a teleprompter and reading it very badly I might add. She's as bad a public speaker as George Bush. Maybe it's a personal fault of mine but I prefer not my get my financial information from "20 something" beauty queens. Presenting the lovely but nonsensical Perianne Boring ........ I doubt you'll ever see a serious journalist like Leslie Stahl jutting her boobs out like that. Then again in fairness maybe she just has the worst case of scoliosis known to mankind. Well they can look real good but might not dress and act like that... Just google "Catherine Murray" Edited May 13, 2014 by ronthecivil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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