ronthecivil Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Not to mention if they did the other restructuring I mentioned with getting rid of bad and "retired" teachers, more of those young teachers stuck constantly doing (more often hoping for) TOC jobs would actually have a real, full time position. While I agree don't count on an organisation that is top weighted with older members to do anything about changing the treatment of older members at the expense of the younger generation. It's a common theme in society if you haven't noticed yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Horse @#$% Show me one. There are too many variables. Teaching and learning are personal. You can't program that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 It wouldn't if our students were ranked 1st or 2nd instead of last in provincial exams. Perhaps we should track the performance of students the whole way up so we can see how were doing. Oops, the teachers union is adamant that we don't do that either. Clearly there is only one solution. We will get the Fraser institute to rank schools by provincial exam marks and before you know it the teachers union will lobby to have exam marks statistics no longer reported or analysed and then we won't know how we rank. Problem solved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 because every school is a close enough drive to allow time to get a call, get ready, and get to the school at a reasonable time. TOC's do actually teach, which means they have to have time to rep for the days work. Meaning they need to be at school by 8am. That said, I do agree there is probably a way to make it work. Am I missing something? If you're in an area with 30 schools you're willing to commute to/get to in a timely manner, you input those thirsty schools. If you're in an area with 2 schools you're willing to commute to/get to in a timely manner you input those two. How is this remotely different from living in a large district with 30 schools or a small one with two schools? If anything this system would make it easier to work in in more than, what is currently one, district if you choose to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Am I missing something? If you're in an area with 30 schools you're willing to commute to/get to in a timely manner, you input those thirsty schools. If you're in an area with 2 schools you're willing to commute to/get to in a timely manner you input those two. How is this remotely different from living in a large district with 30 schools or a small one with two schools? If anything this system would make it easier to work in in more than, what is currently one, district if you choose to. Because, say someone who wasn't in their district before, but is now and willing to commute farther and has a higher seniority = stawns working at Home Depot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qball Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 With 5 million or so students compared with 15000 inmates of the long term variety it's unlikely that increasing education funding would result in enough of a reduction in crime rates to actually save us money. Even if we magically ended the prison population and put all that money into education it would only be like a 1% increase in per student funding. Now if we taught math and research in schools that might be more obvious. I never said this would in any way solve the funding problem, just pointing out the priorities of our current governments... And I am a High School Math teacher, by the way. In BC at least education funding has been increasing despite lower overall student population. Not sure where the idea of cuts comes from. Keep drinking the Liberal Kool-Aid, Ron... Sure, the per-pupil funding has gone up slightly, but not on pace with inflation. Not to mention all the costs that the Ministry of Education used to cover, but now don't, that have been off-loaded onto School Districts. And while we're talking about Math, let's review some shall we. Take my medium/small high school with about 600 kids. Assuming an even split between all the grades (which there isn't) that works out to 120 kids per grade. At 30 kids per class (max), we would have to run 4 blocks of Math/English/Socials/Science and electives for each grade. Financially, this is a great scenario, since the funding those 120 kids bring in, covers the costs running their classes, with a small chunk left over for some 'extras'. But... In declining enrollment, if 10 students leave a particular grade (now down to 110), we still have to run 4 blocks of each class, since only 3 blocks would mean 36 or 37 students per class - not allowed. Those 4 blocks cost the same amount whether we have 120 kids or 110 kids, but at 110 kids, the school has about $65,000 less to do it with. Declining enrollment actually puts us in a worse position financially, until we hit that next lower multiple of 30... It's an even worse scenario if we were back at 120 kids, and 1 new student arrived in our catchment area. We would now have to open a new block of each subject, and reconfigure the timetable for an entire grade of students to keep the class sizes under 30. The 8 blocks that would have to be opened cost roughly $12,500 each (avg teacher cost per block) which is equivalent to $100,000 in wages the school has to pay out, while that one student brings in $6,500 in funding (to the school). The reality is, that teachers have been doing more, with less, for an awfully long time. An entire generation of students have suffered from the chronic underfunding of the system. We're at a point now, where we really can't stretch any more, for any longer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Show me one. There are too many variables. Teaching and learning are personal. You can't program that. What a crock of @#$%. There's nothing "personal" about sorting available teachers for schools. A website can easily and efficiently organize that data and have it available for the principal or whoever you want making the "personal touch" decision to call them. You're being you're usual obtuse self again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I never said this would in any way solve the funding problem, just pointing out the priorities of our current governments... And I am a High School Math teacher, by the way. Keep drinking the Liberal Kool-Aid, Ron... Sure, the per-pupil funding has gone up slightly, but not on pace with inflation. Not to mention all the costs that the Ministry of Education used to cover, but now don't, that have been off-loaded onto School Districts. And while we're talking about Math, let's review some shall we. Take my medium/small high school with about 600 kids. Assuming an even split between all the grades (which there isn't) that works out to 120 kids per grade. At 30 kids per class (max), we would have to run 4 blocks of Math/English/Socials/Science and electives for each grade. Financially, this is a great scenario, since the funding those 120 kids bring in, covers the costs running their classes, with a small chunk left over for some 'extras'. But... In declining enrollment, if 10 students leave a particular grade (now down to 110), we still have to run 4 blocks of each class, since only 3 blocks would mean 36 or 37 students per class - not allowed. Those 4 blocks cost the same amount whether we have 120 kids or 110 kids, but at 110 kids, the school has about $65,000 less to do it with. Declining enrollment actually puts us in a worse position financially, until we hit that next lower multiple of 30... It's an even worse scenario if we were back at 120 kids, and 1 new student arrived in our catchment area. We would now have to open a new block of each subject, and reconfigure the timetable for an entire grade of students to keep the class sizes under 30. The 8 blocks that would have to be opened cost roughly $12,500 each (avg teacher cost per block) which is equivalent to $100,000 in wages the school has to pay out, while that one student brings in $6,500 in funding (to the school). The reality is, that teachers have been doing more, with less, for an awfully long time. An entire generation of students have suffered from the chronic underfunding of the system. We're at a point now, where we really can't stretch any more, for any longer... So you're arguing that in many cases you'd actually be better off with larger class sizes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Because, say someone who wasn't in their district before, but is now and willing to commute farther and has a higher seniority = stawns working at Home Depot. I'd say having more bad teachers fired and old teachers ACTUALLY retired and also allowing Stawns to work in any areas he sees fit would more than compensate for the off chance of that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qball Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 So you're arguing that in many cases you'd actually be better off with larger class sizes? Financially, yes absolutely! Educationally, no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 So you're arguing that in many cases you'd actually be better off with larger class sizes? Or at least some aditional flexibility. Of course that's a non starter negoiation wise and if you try to impose it it's operation lawsuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I never said this would in any way solve the funding problem, just pointing out the priorities of our current governments... And I am a High School Math teacher, by the way. Keep drinking the Liberal Kool-Aid, Ron... Sure, the per-pupil funding has gone up slightly, but not on pace with inflation. Not to mention all the costs that the Ministry of Education used to cover, but now don't, that have been off-loaded onto School Districts. And while we're talking about Math, let's review some shall we. Take my medium/small high school with about 600 kids. Assuming an even split between all the grades (which there isn't) that works out to 120 kids per grade. At 30 kids per class (max), we would have to run 4 blocks of Math/English/Socials/Science and electives for each grade. Financially, this is a great scenario, since the funding those 120 kids bring in, covers the costs running their classes, with a small chunk left over for some 'extras'. But... In declining enrollment, if 10 students leave a particular grade (now down to 110), we still have to run 4 blocks of each class, since only 3 blocks would mean 36 or 37 students per class - not allowed. Those 4 blocks cost the same amount whether we have 120 kids or 110 kids, but at 110 kids, the school has about $65,000 less to do it with. Declining enrollment actually puts us in a worse position financially, until we hit that next lower multiple of 30... It's an even worse scenario if we were back at 120 kids, and 1 new student arrived in our catchment area. We would now have to open a new block of each subject, and reconfigure the timetable for an entire grade of students to keep the class sizes under 30. The 8 blocks that would have to be opened cost roughly $12,500 each (avg teacher cost per block) which is equivalent to $100,000 in wages the school has to pay out, while that one student brings in $6,500 in funding (to the school). The reality is, that teachers have been doing more, with less, for an awfully long time. An entire generation of students have suffered from the chronic underfunding of the system. We're at a point now, where we really can't stretch any more, for any longer... Taxpayers feel the same way. So again, where do we get the money to increase funding? Keep in mind that the healtcare monster has basically already reserved any extra money you can figure out how to find in the event that you manage to actually find some. But kudos for the math. Your original comment did not make it clear as to the actual size of the education vs. corrections department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Financially, yes absolutely! Educationally, no... Unfortunately that's all that matters. And if that sounds cold, just wait, it's going to get much worse as society ages and the financial pressures on everything get that much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 What a crock of @#$%. There's nothing "personal" about sorting available teachers for schools. A website can easily and efficiently organize that data and have it available for the principal or whoever you want making the "personal touch" decision to call them. You're being you're usual obtuse self again. Wrong again. I know - from experience. Also, how much is this "great" Obamacare like website going to cost and run - you'll need several highly paid admins and it would have to be clustered and DR'ed and running on the latest and greatest hardware which has high maintenance costs and the pipeline to it would have to be big as well as each school would have to have access, etc...etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'd say having more bad teachers fired and old teachers ACTUALLY retired and also allowing Stawns to work in any areas he sees fit would more than compensate for the off chance of that happening. What bad teachers and why are they being fired? Is your website doing that as well? Cha Ching! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qball Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Or at least some aditional flexibility. Of course that's a non starter negoiation wise and if you try to impose it it's operation lawsuit. So you're saying that, if you had a legally binding contract with your employer, and they unilaterally ripped it up and 'imposed' a new one that was immeasurably worse for you than your previous contract, you wouldn't take your employer to court?! Right. Give me a break... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Taxpayers feel the same way. So again, where do we get the money to increase funding? Keep in mind that the healtcare monster has basically already reserved any extra money you can figure out how to find in the event that you manage to actually find some. But kudos for the math. Your original comment did not make it clear as to the actual size of the education vs. corrections department. I'm a taxpayer and I don't feel that way. I know Liberal taxpayers and they don't feel that way neither - they voted Liberal as they saw it as the lesser of 2 evils - not because of anything you're suggesting. So please stop lumping all taxpayers with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 So you're saying that, if you had a legally binding contract with your employer, and they unilaterally ripped it up and 'imposed' a new one that was immeasurably worse for you than your previous contract, you wouldn't take your employer to court?! Right. Give me a break... No, I am saying that having flexibility with regards to class size is unfortunately a pipe dream. I also expect there to be more lawsuits going forwards as the government scrambles for money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'm a taxpayer and I don't feel that way. I know Liberal taxpayers and they don't feel that way neither - they voted Liberal as they saw it as the lesser of 2 evils - not because of anything you're suggesting. So please stop lumping all taxpayers with you. Which taxes should we raise then? I seriously doubt that you will find many politicians ready to run on a policy of upping taxes! And if they did needless to say it would go towards healthcare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 *Yawn* ... and the teachers/supporters revert back to rhetoric and "us vs them" instead of and working towards better solutions. Rinse and repeat. And you wonder why you make no progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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