avelanch Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 The old ones did, yes, but the new ones work much longer than that. Certainly long enough for one firefight. I am NOT a special operations planner, or involved in them in any way, of course. But I do have a few friends that have been and some that are currently in that role. In speaking to them, but not recently and not specific to this case, it seems to me the GENERAL rule is that if you wish to remain completely unseen/noticed, then you don't generally insert in with a helocopter. It SEEMS to me, and again I am no expert, that the concept of operations here was quick rather than silent. Ergo, no supressors, which do reduce the effectiveness of their weapons. Surprise and extreme violence of action can and usually does win the day, whether loud or near-silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetcoaster Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 yeah, even those super-secret stealth (to radar only) choppers they used were loud as hell, and they brought in 4 of them. secret/quiet was not high on their to-do list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAH Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 The not so stealthy helicopters woke Twitter celebrity Sohaib Athar who tweeted as the attack went down: Mr. Athar first tweeted about a helicopter hovering above him at 1 a.m., saying it was a “rare event” for Abbottabad. That would have been at about 3.30 p.m. Eastern time on Sunday. Still, Mr. Athar seems to have thought of it as a mere annoyance, as his next tweet was “Go away helicopter – before I take out my giant swatter :-/” Within minutes, he tweeted: “A huge window shaking bang here in Abbottabad Cantt. I hope its not the start of something nasty :-S”. After a while when the sound of the helicopter stopped following a blast, Mr. Athar tweeted “seems like my giant swatter worked !”http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2011/05/02/from-abbottabad-live-tweeting-the-bin-laden-attack/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetcoaster Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 They are a LOT quiter than normal helocopters, apparently, but it's pretty tough to silence 4 fifteen foot rotor blades moving at supersonic speed. Apparently, they emit little or no noise forward, but still emit noise down, if that makes any sense. I am not claiming this to be fact, but that's the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAH Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Who knows... but in any event the explosions would seem to be a dead giveaway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Who knows... but in any event the explosions would seem to be a dead giveaway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAH Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Now if we could only make explosive 'silencers'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetcoaster Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 This is totally off topic, but kinda related and very interesting: They have developed an artillery gun that uses water instead of explosives to propel the artillery bomb. Essentially, without getting too technical, imagine a giant resovoir of water and one big ass compressor forcing that water at incredible speed through the breach and onto the bomb. More or less silent, with the exception of the compressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAH Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 But when the shell lands??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
key2thecup Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Son says bin Laden sea burial demeans family: report LONDON | Tue May 10, 2011(Reuters) - A statement purporting to come from a son of Osama bin Laden denounced the al Qaeda leader's killing as "criminal" and said his burial at sea had humiliated the family, an online monitoring service said. The statement, attributed to Omar bin Laden, bin Laden's fourth eldest son, said the al Qaeda chief's children reserved the right to take legal action in the United States and internationally to "determine the true fate of our vanished father," the SITE Intelligence Group said. There was no independent confirmation of the authenticity of the letter, published on the website of Islamist ideologue Abu Walid al-Masri, although several specialists on militant propaganda said the text appeared genuine. Omar bin Laden, who has been based in the Gulf in recent years, did not immediately respond to emailed and telephoned requests for comment. The letter said, in part: "We hold the American President (Barack) Obama legally responsible to clarify the fate of our father, Osama bin Laden, for it is unacceptable, humanely and religiously, to dispose of a person with such importance and status among his people, by throwing his body into the sea in that way, which demeans and humiliates his family and his supporters and which challenges religious provisions and feelings of hundreds of millions of Muslims." The letter said the U.S. administration had offered no proof to back up its account of the mission. It alleged the goal of raid had been to kill and not arrest, adding that afterwards the American commandos had "rushed to dispose of the body." Some Muslims have misgivings about how U.S. forces killed bin Laden in a raid in Pakistan on May 2 and disposed of his body in the ocean. Questions have multiplied since the White House said the al Qaeda leader was unarmed when U.S. helicopter-borne commandos raided the villa where he was hiding in the city of Abbottabad. Bin Laden's swift burial at sea, in what many Muslims say was a violation of Islamic custom, has also stirred anger. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/10/us-binladen-son-statement-idUSTRE7495E720110510 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I thought burial at sea was acceptable?? What happens to those muslims that die at sea then?? What? No towels in heaven?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetcoaster Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I thought burial at sea was acceptable?? What happens to those muslims that die at sea then?? What? No towels in heaven?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I think his rights for a proper muslim burial went out the window when thousands of americans were unceremoniously buried in the rubble of world trade center. What about their right for a proper burial, or to even live out the rest of their natural lives? Nope, their argument doesn't hold water in the slightest. They are just looking for any excuse to "retaliate", and I say them. Extremists of any religion can just sod off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAH Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 That's the way the cookie crumbles, Omar. I think it's safe to say that regardless of which direction his head is facing, he didn't go to paradise anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Bin Laden's burial at sea "runs contrary to the principles of Islamic laws, religious values and humanitarian customs," said Sheik Ahmed al-Tayeb, the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, Sunni Islam's highest seat of learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild#9 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I think his rights for a proper muslim burial went out the window when thousands of americans were unceremoniously buried in the rubble of world trade center. What about their right for a proper burial, or to even live out the rest of their natural lives? Nope, their argument doesn't hold water in the slightest. They are just looking for any excuse to "retaliate", and I say them. Extremists of any religion can just sod off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetcoaster Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I think his rights for a proper muslim burial went out the window when thousands of americans were unceremoniously buried in the rubble of world trade center. What about their right for a proper burial, or to even live out the rest of their natural lives? Nope, their argument doesn't hold water in the slightest. They are just looking for any excuse to "retaliate", and I say them. Extremists of any religion can just sod off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I think there might be an issue with the requirement of being buried with the head facing Mecca. Muslim clerics said Monday that Osama bin Laden's burial at sea was a violation of Islamic tradition that may further provoke militant calls for revenge attacks against American targets. Although there appears to be some room for debate over the burial — as with many issues within the faith — a wide range of senior Islamic scholars interpreted it as a humiliating disregard for the standard Muslim practice of placing the body in a grave with the head pointed toward the holy city of Mecca. Sea burials can be allowed, they said, but only in special cases where the death occurred aboard a ship. Bin Laden's burial at sea "runs contrary to the principles of Islamic laws, religious values and humanitarian customs," said Sheik Ahmed al-Tayeb, the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, Sunni Islam's highest seat of learning.http://news.yahoo.co...aden_sea_burial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I think his rights for a proper muslim burial went out the window when thousands of americans were unceremoniously buried in the rubble of world trade center. What about their right for a proper burial, or to even live out the rest of their natural lives? Nope, their argument doesn't hold water in the slightest. They are just looking for any excuse to "retaliate", and I say them. Extremists of any religion can just sod off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonLever Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 <br />That argument has the same lack of validity as saying murders give up their rights when they murder and the state can murder them as punishment.<br /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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