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#931 Squeak

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:19 PM

and Raymond? Grabner? Shirokov? Edler would have excelled under any coach. Same with Kesler and the Sedins. I believe Burrows would have as well. Even when he was scoring 5 goals a year he was showing signs of his offensive awareness/skill.


...huh?


What does that have to with his AHL availability?
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#932 zduck14

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:24 PM

Strictly Points wise i think he will be similar to burrows, between that 55-65 point range. That guy on the powerplay you have sitting in front of the net to cause ruckus or on the half boards with the puck driving the net also causing ruckus.

Either way he is a big body who is going to score you goals around the net in situations we are relying on burrows or kesler to score these days.


I agree with the point prediction. I think Jensen will be more like a Johan Franzen type though. Likely show glimpses of being a star but playing more of a support role for the top guys. And, to be honest, if he turns out that good, I'll be happy (especially in the playoffs).
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#933 filthycanuck

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:17 AM

There are a number of rookies making impacts in the playoffs right now, one of the reasons is they were actually given the chance to play. AV doesn't seem to like to play young players much at all, and that makes it far harder for any to make an impact on our team. Some coaches excel at getting young players adjusted to the NHL, AV excels at killing their confidence.


Cody Hodgson was our most prized prospect, the future face of the franchise, CHL player of the year, pretty much #1 in every category in his last FULL season in the OHL. Showed promise this year being our 4th leading point getter, consistent, came up clutch against big time opponents, played pretty good when Kesler was hurt on 2nd line duties, got probably 3-5 shifts with the Sedins all year.

Byron Bitz who probably nobody knows who the hell he was until we signed him, handful of games under his belt, 4th scrub probably for the rest of his career.... got TWO FULL GAMES PLAYING ON THE TOP LINE WITH THE SEDINS

But hey Mason Raymond got his ice time, Hodgsons out the door, AV is happy. AV getting fired...equals Canucks fans being VERY HAPPY
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#934 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:49 AM

I want a coach who isn't afraid to let his rookies play through mistakes as long as they're willing to learn and are putting in the effort to get better. Hopefully Schroeder gets a shot next year and Jensen at least gets a trial of 9 games.
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#935 AndyBernard

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 03:42 AM

I think these guys need to bdevelop, the only guy I see sticking is kassian as he can fill a 3rd 4th line role i may be wrong but we are trying to win a cup here. That means getting proven guys, you dont throw a rookie in the playoffs and let him have his mistakes in a situation where a vet wouldnt think twice about it. If one of schroeder or jensen are going to make this team it better be clear and they better be ready, otherwise give them their 9 games and get on with developing for another year.

Im all for one of them making it, but I dont want to see them in and out of the lineup, if they are up here they play. Simple as that.
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#936 LostViking

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:15 AM

Its really odd to hear people bash AV for limiting a young player's ice time and role. Gillis has stated from the beginning that they want to develop players in lower leagues until they are over-ready for the NHL, then have them make the jump. The team has tried to do this whenever possible, but necessity has resulted in some exceptions.

This means that the mandate from above given to AV is that if a player isn't quite ready he is to have a limited role. Gillis doesn't want AV developing young guys, he wants MacT developing them. AV has played his role perfectly, he is the barrier the players must get past to get their full time NHL ticket. That is the lynchpin of Gillis' philosophy, in order to ensure a Detroit-style crop of over-ready prospects, you must have someone in the organization that the young players must prove themselves to, someone who isn't going to coddle them just because they are still developing, but rather someone who will evaluate whether they are a quality NHL player or not yet, if not, they need to be developed further outside the NHL.

This model has worked quite well for Detroit, and is very clearly MG's idea. You wouldn't see coach Babcock giving a rookie lots of ice time just to develop them, Babcock expects the young players to be ready before they get to him, rather than have them develop under him (development will continue at the NHL level, but they have to reach a certain effectiveness first). I think AV is a great coach for younger guys (look at his time in Manitoba) but under Mike Gillis he was asked to play a different role in these young player's development. He has followed the plan MG laid out, and now people blast him as though he's a bad coach.

Now whether or not we agree with MG's development strategy is another issue altogether, but AV has done nothing but follow the plan to a tee.

I think Jensen is a good example of the above points, AV seemed to love this guy, he always beamed about him in interviews. However, when the time came to decide if Jensen deserved a 9 game tryout, he was shipped back to junior no questions asked. The action the team took was in direct contrast to what AV seemed to want. We can clearly see the MG philosophy and not the AV philosophy is the one that the organization is following.

Edited by LostViking, 24 April 2012 - 08:16 AM.

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#937 inder19

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:55 AM

I agree with the detroit model but one of the reasons they develop their players for so long is because they draft late. Bruins and the Hawks both had young players contributing to their cup run. I think a guy like Jensen for next season is in a situation where he likely could play limited minutes in the NHL, some PP time and get 8-9mins a game. Not really ideal but if he ends up being NHL ready that could turn into 12-15 minutes. In jrs he could dominate which would be a good thing as well because it will teach him what it feels like to be the best player on his team and be counted on night in and night out. AHL, not an option but that would be the best. I don't want to see him in the NHL next season unless he is ready...but if he IS ready they should not keep him down just for the sake of "going through the process". He gets 9 games in NHL unless he has a bad camp IMO.
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#938 Joel Heyman

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:40 AM

According to Gillis in his press conference, Jensen is much closer to being in the NHL than people may think. When asked about NHL ready prospects, Nick was the first to be brought up in his conference speech.
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#939 Psycho_Path

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:09 AM

...huh?


What does that have to with his AHL availability?


My bad. Was meant as a response to Kent.S's post

Look at were they are now though...
Top tier players.

Sadly Rypien isn't with us anymore though.


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#940 Psycho_Path

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:12 AM

I want a coach who isn't afraid to let his rookies play through mistakes as long as they're willing to learn and are putting in the effort to get better. Hopefully Schroeder gets a shot next year and Jensen at least gets a trial of 9 games.


Honestly I don't mind skilled rookies playing on the 3rd/4th line if they've been given the chance to play on the 1st/2nd when those players aren't producing, and not produce themselves. If AV actually did this, I wouldn't have a problem with him, because I do like his development of strategy for this team (not his inability to adjust to other team's strategies though)
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#941 AlexanderEdler23

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 04:49 PM

I had a few questions that I was hoping one of you could answer.
  • Is it possible for a team to play their prized first rounder (ex: Jensen) in more than 10 games in the regular season next year, burning the first year of his contract and them sending him down to develop in the AHL?
  • Or if they send him down after 10 games, does he go back to the OHL until next year with his first year of the contract burned?
  • Or must he stay with Vancouver the full year and continue to develop there?

This would seem like an option for players who are too good for the OHL but not quite ready for the NHL. Thoughts?
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#942 Joel Heyman

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 05:03 PM

I had a few questions that I was hoping one of you could answer.

  • Is it possible for a team to play their prized first rounder (ex: Jensen) in more than 10 games in the regular season next year, burning the first year of his contract and them sending him down to develop in the AHL?
  • Or if they send him down after 10 games, does he go back to the OHL until next year with his first year of the contract burned?
  • Or must he stay with Vancouver the full year and continue to develop there?
This would seem like an option for players who are too good for the OHL but not quite ready for the NHL. Thoughts?


I'll answer these to the best of my abilities:
  • We can play Jensen for 10 regular season games or more in the NHL, burning the first year of his contract, however, he cannot play in the AHL next season, as he was drafted from the CHL and is under the age of 20.
  • We could play him 10 or more games and then send him back to Oshawa, but that would still burn the first year of his contract, and we would not be able to re-call him to the NHL unless in the event of an emergency.
  • Yes, if we kept him for the extra game(s) on top of the first 9, it would be recommendable to just keep him in the NHL, as it would be pretty pointless to just waste a year off his his very valuable and cheap ELC.
I wish the NHL/CHL/AHL would allow for an exception for a single player from each franchise to play in the AHL a year or two early for developmental purposes, but I highly doubt that they would do it because the Canucks had a solid 29th overall pick. There would need to be much more support.

Edited by Hansen 36, 24 April 2012 - 05:04 PM.

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#943 Joel Heyman

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 05:16 PM

Wow, I'm watching the highlights of Game 1 and Jensen has some serious finish in the crease/slot, and Schroeder has one hell of a shot, with skating and passing to match.
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#944 Bilbro Baggins

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:33 PM

What's Jensen's injury? I heard on twitter that he isn't playing tonight because of it.
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#945 Sanford

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:43 PM

Any ideas why Jensen did not play today playoff game?

Is he injured??
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#946 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:17 PM

Apparently he got elbowed in the face last game, seemed fine afterward but this could be a precautionary measure. It'd be nice to see them use him on the PP, he was deadly there in Game 1.
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#947 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:26 PM

^ I also agree that it'd be nice if each team had 1 exception to the rule, but I don't see this happening anytime soon.
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#948 Niloc009

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 01:19 PM

Apparently there's reports out of Norway that Nicklas Jensen has a concussion and that things don't look great.


Not sure if it's true or not, as why is the report coming from Norway? Isn't Jensen with the Wolves?
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#949 Joel Heyman

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 01:30 PM

Ugh, that is not what we want going into a big offseason for him...


Someone call Mactavish and tell him to use Clackson properly and get him to murder Petrovic

Edited by Hansen 36, 25 April 2012 - 01:31 PM.

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#950 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 02:08 PM

^ Apparently it's coming out of the Danish newspapers too, not just in Norway. :(
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#951 Edler's Mind Tricks

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 03:10 PM

Crrapp..... Not good... Bad things come in three's... Canucks eliminated, Sun's eliminated last night, Jensen concussed..
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#952 Hyzer

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 04:10 PM

Is he actually concussed? I thought he was playing last game. NOOOOOOOOO
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#953 Joel Heyman

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 04:26 PM

I dug up some more info. It's a minor concussion but his symptoms got worse yesterday and the doctor forbid him to play or practice for the next couple days...

The injury happened during game 2 when Petrovic elbowed him in the face. I believe there was a penalty on the play but no fines or suspension.

Edited by Hansen 36, 25 April 2012 - 04:30 PM.

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#954 87Crosby

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 04:58 PM

What # does he wear with the wolves
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#955 Squeak

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 05:22 PM

What # does he wear with the wolves


36
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#956 DeNiro

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:21 PM

Why does it seem like we have terrible luck with our prospects?

Rodin and Jensen getting injured this playoffs. Hodgson getting injured a couple of seasons ago. Sauve getting hit by a car while walking down the street.

And not to mention Bourdon's tragic accident. :(

Edited by DeNiro, 25 April 2012 - 07:22 PM.

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#957 Millerdraft

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:59 PM

Its really odd to hear people bash AV for limiting a young player's ice time and role. Gillis has stated from the beginning that they want to develop players in lower leagues until they are over-ready for the NHL, then have them make the jump. The team has tried to do this whenever possible, but necessity has resulted in some exceptions.

This means that the mandate from above given to AV is that if a player isn't quite ready he is to have a limited role. Gillis doesn't want AV developing young guys, he wants MacT developing them. AV has played his role perfectly, he is the barrier the players must get past to get their full time NHL ticket. That is the lynchpin of Gillis' philosophy, in order to ensure a Detroit-style crop of over-ready prospects, you must have someone in the organization that the young players must prove themselves to, someone who isn't going to coddle them just because they are still developing, but rather someone who will evaluate whether they are a quality NHL player or not yet, if not, they need to be developed further outside the NHL.

This model has worked quite well for Detroit, and is very clearly MG's idea. You wouldn't see coach Babcock giving a rookie lots of ice time just to develop them, Babcock expects the young players to be ready before they get to him, rather than have them develop under him (development will continue at the NHL level, but they have to reach a certain effectiveness first). I think AV is a great coach for younger guys (look at his time in Manitoba) but under Mike Gillis he was asked to play a different role in these young player's development. He has followed the plan MG laid out, and now people blast him as though he's a bad coach.

Now whether or not we agree with MG's development strategy is another issue altogether, but AV has done nothing but follow the plan to a tee.

I think Jensen is a good example of the above points, AV seemed to love this guy, he always beamed about him in interviews. However, when the time came to decide if Jensen deserved a 9 game tryout, he was shipped back to junior no questions asked. The action the team took was in direct contrast to what AV seemed to want. We can clearly see the MG philosophy and not the AV philosophy is the one that the organization is following.


Great post. +1.

The bolded part reminded me of this:

Mike Babcock raved about Leino's skill, and there's no question he'll be with the Wings sooner or later this season.



"This is the best player I've been involved in sending to the minors, I can tell you that," Babcock said. "He's got a nose for the net, goes to the net, dominant on the cycle, makes great passes. He's a Red Wings type player. Leino, I think he's going to be a scoring machine."

http://blog.mlive.co...y_waived_e.html
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#958 NuxFan09

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:04 AM

Really, really sucks to hear about Jensen's concussion. I hope this is something that he can get over completely over the summer without any fear of recurring symptoms or a halt in his career. Please, please let this just go away.
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#959 Guardian452

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:34 AM

I'll answer these to the best of my abilities:

  • We can play Jensen for 10 regular season games or more in the NHL, burning the first year of his contract, however, he cannot play in the AHL next season, as he was drafted from the CHL and is under the age of 20.
  • We could play him 10 or more games and then send him back to Oshawa, but that would still burn the first year of his contract, and we would not be able to re-call him to the NHL unless in the event of an emergency.
  • Yes, if we kept him for the extra game(s) on top of the first 9, it would be recommendable to just keep him in the NHL, as it would be pretty pointless to just waste a year off his his very valuable and cheap ELC.
I wish the NHL/CHL/AHL would allow for an exception for a single player from each franchise to play in the AHL a year or two early for developmental purposes, but I highly doubt that they would do it because the Canucks had a solid 29th overall pick. There would need to be much more support.


I believe the CHL/NHL agreement on returning junoir eligible players to their CHL clubs doesn't apply to "imports", so Jensen could play with the Wolves next season and be recalled anytime. This is the same reason why the Senators were able to send Robin Lehner to their minor league club when he was only 19.
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#960 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:41 AM

I'll answer these to the best of my abilities:

  • We can play Jensen for 10 regular season games or more in the NHL, burning the first year of his contract, however, he cannot play in the AHL next season, as he was drafted from the CHL and is under the age of 20.
  • We could play him 10 or more games and then send him back to Oshawa, but that would still burn the first year of his contract, and we would not be able to re-call him to the NHL unless in the event of an emergency.
  • Yes, if we kept him for the extra game(s) on top of the first 9, it would be recommendable to just keep him in the NHL, as it would be pretty pointless to just waste a year off his his very valuable and cheap ELC.
I wish the NHL/CHL/AHL would allow for an exception for a single player from each franchise to play in the AHL a year or two early for developmental purposes, but I highly doubt that they would do it because the Canucks had a solid 29th overall pick. There would need to be much more support.


The point of the rule is to not have players from the CHL get out of the CHL too early. They are a business like the AHL and NHL. They are the ones developing the bulk of the talent base in the NHL. You can't blame them for wanting to keep their talent for a season or two to help them sell tickets. But, in Jensen's case it would be not be very useful to his development, as he's probably learned all he can in Junior.
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