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#31 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:28 PM

There was a point to my madness of posting those pics! ;)


I realized that after I posted. My picture also had a point, but not in your post's context. In other words, I fail.

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Father (Peace be upon You) Satan (Peace be upon You), I call to you (Peace be upon You) from the deepest parts of my heart, I praise your (Peace be upon You) name with every breath of my body, I worship you (Peace be upon You) with every fiber of my being. You (Peace be upon You) shown me what true strength is. You (Peace be upon You) have shown me what true love is. Out of the darkness you (Peace be upon You) came to show me the true light.


My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


Posted Image Hail to the King (PBUH)! Posted Image


#32 Shift-4

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:28 PM

Phew, now I'm definitely not a douchebag. IN YOUR FACE HERETIC.


Don't you mean you just don't dress like a douchebag :P
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#33 ronthecivil

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:29 PM

Phew, now I'm definitely not a douchebag. IN YOUR FACE HERETIC.


Doesn't matter how you dress it's how you act that determines if your a doucher or not.

Which is why I think a suit is a far more EFFECTIVE douchebag uni.

Even better you could dress like a granola and play the nice guy role but secretly be a douche. Now THAT would be effective!

#34 Heretic

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:30 PM

Phew, now I'm definitely not a douchebag. IN YOUR FACE HERETIC.


You remind me of that active gif of the lone Hawks fan at GM Place who stands up after the Hawks score and shakes his fist. :P


Edited by Heretic, 23 May 2012 - 06:15 PM.

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#35 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:31 PM

Doesn't matter how you dress it's how you act that determines if your a doucher or not.

Which is why I think a suit is a far more EFFECTIVE douchebag uni.

Even better you could dress like a granola and play the nice guy role but secretly be a douche. Now THAT would be effective!


I'm socially awkward, so it works out the other way around.

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Father (Peace be upon You) Satan (Peace be upon You), I call to you (Peace be upon You) from the deepest parts of my heart, I praise your (Peace be upon You) name with every breath of my body, I worship you (Peace be upon You) with every fiber of my being. You (Peace be upon You) shown me what true strength is. You (Peace be upon You) have shown me what true love is. Out of the darkness you (Peace be upon You) came to show me the true light.


My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


Posted Image Hail to the King (PBUH)! Posted Image


#36 avelanch

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:52 PM

How do douchebags dress? I just want to make sure I'm not one when I'm dressed. :unsure:

Walmart can help:
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Edited by avelanch, 22 May 2012 - 01:53 PM.


#37 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:41 PM

Wrong - the Bible teaches us about the bad things we have done - that's all.

The real issue is - we are still doing it.
"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it".

Christian society? Really? I guess there's a "I hate Chritians" society as well...but that would be over generalizing...

I agree, men have treated (and still do) woman poorly.

BTW, here's what else the Bible teaches us:

Galatians 3.28


There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

So, "Christian" men that may, as you say, treat woman as inferior in any way, are not really Christians and/or haven't read Galatians 3.28.


how would you feel if society called your unmarried mother a slut , then an institution {the catholic chuch } took her and closeted her away till she had her baby and then drugged her until she signed the adoption papers ? this is what happened to my biological mother and 50,000 other unmarried teenage girls between 1958 and 1972 in my country , and that is one of the major reasons why i am so passionate and angry about the fact that some men for whatever reasons they may have call a woman a slut
and the OP is talking about an organisation that is trying to combat the idea that the victim of a rape is responsible for that act because she is a "slut" and i am sugesting that this idea of a woman being a slut has it's foundations in religious teaching's and as far as i am concerned the way some christians and muslims treat women is a crime against humanity .

Edited by puckinloveicehockey, 22 May 2012 - 04:12 PM.

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#38 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:59 PM

you have to be the most sensitive to criticism poster on this entire board.you should have put a link to the webpage you got it from, it's just common internet etiquette, and it'll avoid you getting minor criticism for you to overreact to in the future (though i have a nagging suspicion you love that stuff).


i prefer to use common courtesy, which i believe is not to attack someone for the way they present information . i do not love to be derided in any way , and apart from a couple of times where i have lost my cool {then apologised afterwards },i do not attack others , i might have a go at the information they present , but i do not attack the person who presents it .

I think it's rad when balls beats natural talent

Shaun Palmer

 

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi


#39 suolucidir

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 04:54 PM

i prefer to use common courtesy, which i believe is not to attack someone for the way they present information . i do not love to be derided in any way , and apart from a couple of times where i have lost my cool {then apologised afterwards },i do not attack others , i might have a go at the information they present , but i do not attack the person who presents it .

Common courtesy would demand that you give credit to the producer of the content you borrowed..

When you borrow content from a website you should post a link to that website. It's giving credit where credit is due. That's how Internet etiquette works. You didn't. Someone called you on it. You learned something, now move on.. don't be so defensive. Typically when this is pointed out to someone they'd just edit the post to add the link, and possibly say sorry.

Edited by suolucidir, 22 May 2012 - 04:56 PM.

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#40 Heretic

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:09 PM

how would you feel if society called your unmarried mother a slut , then an institution {the catholic chuch } took her and closeted her away till she had her baby and then drugged her until she signed the adoption papers ? this is what happened to my biological mother and 50,000 other unmarried teenage girls between 1958 and 1972 in my country , and that is one of the major reasons why i am so passionate and angry about the fact that some men for whatever reasons they may have call a woman a slut
and the OP is talking about an organisation that is trying to combat the idea that the victim of a rape is responsible for that act because she is a "slut" and i am sugesting that this idea of a woman being a slut has it's foundations in religious teaching's and as far as i am concerned the way some christians and muslims treat women is a crime against humanity .


How would I feel? How do you think I would feel? I'm no different from you. I would feel the same. :angry:

I disagree that the "idea of a woman being a slut has it's foundations in religious teaching".

I agree that the way some christians and muslims treat women is a crime...more so than those without a religious background who also abuse women. Why? They should know better.

I also agree that just because a woman is wearing something provocative does NOT mean they are asking for it.

For the young woman/teenagers out there - I'm not too sure whom to blame for the way some of them dress - I'm talking the junior high school girls who wear next to nothing - you know, the ones that think it's cool or sexy to have half their butts hanging out and showing off that they are wearing a g-string - in public.

McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

 

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#41 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:47 PM

Common courtesy would demand that you give credit to the producer of the content you borrowed..

When you borrow content from a website you should post a link to that website. It's giving credit where credit is due. That's how Internet etiquette works. You didn't. Someone called you on it. You learned something, now move on.. don't be so defensive. Typically when this is pointed out to someone they'd just edit the post to add the link, and possibly say sorry.

as i have stated before i have only just learned to cut and paste and if i can i include the author , date and origin of the article , this was a post on a forum and i tried to copy from the title down to the person who posted , who i have since mentioned is somebody called beast fd but i could not seem to do this . i do not believe i have done anything that i need to apologise for , and it pisses me off that there is no trust in a place where we are all brought together by our love for the same thing , a hockey team .
i am sorry if have have offended you or anyone else by my reaction , but i dislike nitpickers , criticise the information i present , not me for the way i present it , because we all know that when you start criticising the person you either feel like you are losing the argument , or you just want to attack that person .

Edited by puckinloveicehockey, 22 May 2012 - 06:07 PM.

I think it's rad when balls beats natural talent

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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi


#42 Matthew Lombardi 18

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:42 PM

Women who are "sluts" (sleep around with many people) most likely have underlying problems (i.e. depression, family issues, need for affection) and they do things like that to get their minds off life. They most likely can be 'saved' with a solid relationship and a lot of trust/guidance for them.

It sounds very risky to do the above, but before you judge someone, try to UNDERSTAND them first. I've known a couple of girls around the block (not from my block of course - or maybe!) and they have very similar type of challenges in life.

Let's not kid ourselves - sex is fun and has a nice ending which is what everyone wants. Sex is like a drug; you keep taking it and you only keep wanting more but the real problems don't go away after one orgasm... or two... or three.

A douchebag is able to take advantage of "sluts" because they promise/lure them into a life that sounds exciting (different from their own). What is interesting is that "sluts" can't find good guys because they themselves have no clue what a good guy is like. They've been around crapty guys almost all their lives. And ironically, it's these crapty guys that tend to target these women. It's just one vicious circle, one after another.

"Sluts" need to be understood, much like women need to be. Women act very differently than guys but there are most definitely gray shades in between. But in order to understand others, you need to understand yourself and where you belong in society.

Do you want to be a good person or a bad? (By good, it doesn't mean that you can't sleep around, but don't pass yourself off as the savior or the like). You can still have FWBs and still be a good person, just as long as it doesn't involve you levering in between a relationship. Sex doesn't have to be a moral issue, although it can be.

So we are officially in a bit of a silly season, and in general I stay away from the completely crazy rumors that persist on the internet, or in the case of the Leafs having interest in Nabokov or Turco I will occasionally debunk them...however, I have been getting inundated with emails, PMs, and questions on twitter regarding a few rumors that are out there...so here goes.. I will address the rumors and follow with what I have or haven't heard...If you all like this format, maybe Wacky Wednesdays could be a regular feature. I wouldn't do it more than once a week, because I am too busy talking to actual sources and attempting to provide you all with as much unique information as possible.


Too busy talking to actual sources? lolwut

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#43 Matthew Lombardi 18

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:54 PM

How would I feel? How do you think I would feel? I'm no different from you. I would feel the same. :angry:

I disagree that the "idea of a woman being a slut has it's foundations in religious teaching".

I agree that the way some christians and muslims treat women is a crime...more so than those without a religious background who also abuse women. Why? They should know better.

I also agree that just because a woman is wearing something provocative does NOT mean they are asking for it.

For the young woman/teenagers out there - I'm not too sure whom to blame for the way some of them dress - I'm talking the junior high school girls who wear next to nothing - you know, the ones that think it's cool or sexy to have half their butts hanging out and showing off that they are wearing a g-string - in public.


As someone who is dangerously bordering on atheist, I agree with you on the fact that I also disagree with the sentence that is bolded. There's no way that religion teaches girls to be sluts. It doesn't. I just happen to think that religion is manipulated by people so that it can be used to control others (for better or for worse).

Religion however is and should not be the only thing that educates people to treat others nicely. A communal society can EASILY achieve this without need of religion. There are direct consequences for being a douche which could lead to you dying there or getting kicked out. Thus, if you treat others well, you will be treated well in return.

I have an answer for those who wear something provocative (especially young people) - younger people WANT attention. The want for attention also implies low self-esteem/confidence and the need to stand out amongst the rest. Naturally, organisms attract attention so that they can edge out competition for the sake of reproduction. This is especially true for flowers which attract insects with a bigger or more colourful petal. It is 100 percent natural.

So we are officially in a bit of a silly season, and in general I stay away from the completely crazy rumors that persist on the internet, or in the case of the Leafs having interest in Nabokov or Turco I will occasionally debunk them...however, I have been getting inundated with emails, PMs, and questions on twitter regarding a few rumors that are out there...so here goes.. I will address the rumors and follow with what I have or haven't heard...If you all like this format, maybe Wacky Wednesdays could be a regular feature. I wouldn't do it more than once a week, because I am too busy talking to actual sources and attempting to provide you all with as much unique information as possible.


Too busy talking to actual sources? lolwut

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#44 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 12:30 AM

How would I feel? How do you think I would feel? I'm no different from you. I would feel the same. :angry:

I disagree that the "idea of a woman being a slut has it's foundations in religious teaching".

I agree that the way some christians and muslims treat women is a crime...more so than those without a religious background who also abuse women. Why? They should know better.

I also agree that just because a woman is wearing something provocative does NOT mean they are asking for it.

For the young woman/teenagers out there - I'm not too sure whom to blame for the way some of them dress - I'm talking the junior high school girls who wear next to nothing - you know, the ones that think it's cool or sexy to have half their butts hanging out and showing off that they are wearing a g-string - in public.

,
why do 2 of the biggest religions on earth still treat women like they are second class citizens , and seem to believe they have no place in the patriarchal hierarchies that run these religions ?

I think it's rad when balls beats natural talent

Shaun Palmer

 

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi


#45 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 12:38 AM

As someone who is dangerously bordering on atheist, I agree with you on the fact that I also disagree with the sentence that is bolded. There's no way that religion teaches girls to be sluts. It doesn't. I just happen to think that religion is manipulated by people so that it can be used to control others (for better or for worse).

Religion however is and should not be the only thing that educates people to treat others nicely. A communal society can EASILY achieve this without need of religion. There are direct consequences for being a douche which could lead to you dying there or getting kicked out. Thus, if you treat others well, you will be treated well in return.

I have an answer for those who wear something provocative (especially young people) - younger people WANT attention. The want for attention also implies low self-esteem/confidence and the need to stand out amongst the rest. Naturally, organisms attract attention so that they can edge out competition for the sake of reproduction. This is especially true for flowers which attract insects with a bigger or more colourful petal. It is 100 percent natural.


i think you are missing my point mate , of course religion does not teach women to be promiscuous , but rather labels them a slut when they are sexually active before marriage .

I think it's rad when balls beats natural talent

Shaun Palmer

 

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi


#46 Matthew Lombardi 18

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 01:16 AM

i think you are missing my point mate , of course religion does not teach women to be promiscuous , but rather labels them a slut when they are sexually active before marriage .


It's probably because 'religion' is meant to keep people under control and hence if you veer away from that 'chosen' path, you are an outcast. Ironically, Heretic is a firm believer in Christianity and his ideas are not really heretic or 'extreme'.

I don't think this is so much about religion as it is about people. Religious or not, if you stand out from the rest, you might get a cold reception.

So we are officially in a bit of a silly season, and in general I stay away from the completely crazy rumors that persist on the internet, or in the case of the Leafs having interest in Nabokov or Turco I will occasionally debunk them...however, I have been getting inundated with emails, PMs, and questions on twitter regarding a few rumors that are out there...so here goes.. I will address the rumors and follow with what I have or haven't heard...If you all like this format, maybe Wacky Wednesdays could be a regular feature. I wouldn't do it more than once a week, because I am too busy talking to actual sources and attempting to provide you all with as much unique information as possible.


Too busy talking to actual sources? lolwut

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#47 Harbour04Raven

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 01:59 PM

I seen a lot of comments, surrounding sluts, but just to tie it all back to the origin, I wanted to copy this from the description of Slutwalk Vancouver, as shown on facebook.

https://www.facebook...0868720?sk=info

"BECAUSE WE’VE HAD ENOUGH!

This is cross-posted from SlutWalk Toronto:

On January 24th, 2011, a representative of the Toronto Police gave shocking insight into the Force’s view of sexual assault by stating: “women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimized”.

As the city’s major protective service, the Toronto Police have perpetuated the myth and stereotype of ‘the slut’, and in doing so have failed us. With sexual assault already a significantly under-reported crime, survivors have now been given even less of a reason to go to the Police, for fear that they could be blamed. Being assaulted isn’t about what you wear; it’s not even about sex; but using a pejorative term to rationalize inexcusable behaviour creates an environment in which it’s okay to blame the victim.

Historically, the term ‘slut’ has carried a predominantly negative connotation. Aimed at those who are sexually promiscuous, be it for work or pleasure, it has primarily been women who have suffered under the burden of this label. And whether dished out as a serious indictment of one’s character or merely as a flippant insult, the intent behind the word is always to wound, so we’re taking it back. “Slut” is being re-appropriated.

We are tired of being oppressed by slut-shaming; of being judged by our sexuality and feeling unsafe as a result. Being in charge of our sexual lives should not mean that we are opening ourselves to an expectation of violence, regardless if we participate in sex for pleasure or work. No one should equate enjoying sex with attracting sexual assault."--


It started as stand against victim-blaming. And they made t-shirts that were sold at the first event with slogans such as:

"This little black dress doesn't mean yes" or along those lines

"Real men don't rape"

"End slut-shaming, end victim-blaming"

etc.


Many people will support for their own reasons, which is only respectable. I know everyone is more than welcomed.


Personally, I like to party, I like wearing what I want. If I want to wear a little black dress, I will. I don't want to be told to be careful of what I wear because off guys out there who creep. I don't want to be told what to wear. And I don't think because of how I dress, people should call me a slut either. But that's just something I wanted to throw out there.


I think it's interesting religion has been brought in to the conversation, I didn't think that it would. But that's probably because I don't take to religion, and I am surrounded by people who don't either.


I think today media is the main contributing factor to slut-shaming. That's my opinion.


Edited by Harbour04Raven, 23 May 2012 - 02:17 PM.

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#48 GLASSJAW

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:55 PM

I seen a lot of comments, surrounding sluts, but just to tie it all back to the origin, I wanted to copy this from the description of Slutwalk Vancouver, as shown on facebook.

https://www.facebook...0868720?sk=info

"BECAUSE WE’VE HAD ENOUGH!

This is cross-posted from SlutWalk Toronto:

On January 24th, 2011, a representative of the Toronto Police gave shocking insight into the Force’s view of sexual assault by stating: “women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimized”.

As the city’s major protective service, the Toronto Police have perpetuated the myth and stereotype of ‘the slut’, and in doing so have failed us. With sexual assault already a significantly under-reported crime, survivors have now been given even less of a reason to go to the Police, for fear that they could be blamed. Being assaulted isn’t about what you wear; it’s not even about sex; but using a pejorative term to rationalize inexcusable behaviour creates an environment in which it’s okay to blame the victim.

Historically, the term ‘slut’ has carried a predominantly negative connotation. Aimed at those who are sexually promiscuous, be it for work or pleasure, it has primarily been women who have suffered under the burden of this label. And whether dished out as a serious indictment of one’s character or merely as a flippant insult, the intent behind the word is always to wound, so we’re taking it back. “Slut” is being re-appropriated.

We are tired of being oppressed by slut-shaming; of being judged by our sexuality and feeling unsafe as a result. Being in charge of our sexual lives should not mean that we are opening ourselves to an expectation of violence, regardless if we participate in sex for pleasure or work. No one should equate enjoying sex with attracting sexual assault."--


It started as stand against victim-blaming. And they made t-shirts that were sold at the first event with slogans such as:

"This little black dress doesn't mean yes" or along those lines

"Real men don't rape"

"End slut-shaming, end victim-blaming"

etc.


Many people will support for their own reasons, which is only respectable. I know everyone is more than welcomed.


Personally, I like to party, I like wearing what I want. If I want to wear a little black dress, I will. I don't want to be told to be careful of what I wear because off guys out there who creep. I don't want to be told what to wear. And I don't think because of how I dress, people should call me a slut either. But that's just something I wanted to throw out there.


I think it's interesting religion has been brought in to the conversation, I didn't think that it would. But that's probably because I don't take to religion, and I am surrounded by people who don't either.


I think today media is the main contributing factor to slut-shaming. That's my opinion.


You're supporting events that attempt to "reclaim" the word "slut," all the while taking exception to the word's usage when applied to you, specifically?

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#49 Harbour04Raven

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:12 PM

You're supporting events that attempt to "reclaim" the word "slut," all the while taking exception to the word's usage when applied to you, specifically?


Haha of course someone would want to question the motives of another person. Although I did have in my original post that I do not support the movement, but it is something that I was captivated in attending so as to decide if I would support it or not.


I personally do not want to try to reclaim the word slut. And I don't think Slutwalk Vancouver's mission is that either. To me it seems like Vancouver is solely aiming to end slut-shaming and victim-blaming. They do not tweet or have on facebook, "Let's claim the word slut" Although they are acting in solidarity with Toronto, they do not have the same mission as Toronto, as it is my understanding.


Vancouver is also considering changing the name of Slutwalk Vancouver. Which is something that captivated me to follow. What the organizers think of the name and to learn what direction they want to take.

I support the movement of ending slut-shaming and victim-blaming, but I have never dubbed my support for Slutwalk Vancouver.
Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment. Buddha

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We know that our story has just begun;We know that book of ours never ends;A million of pages front to back;I didn't think anybody would ever get something like that -Luc Bourdon

#50 GLASSJAW

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:25 PM

So it's ok to treat a guy dressed in flannel and blue jeans with a John Deere tractor cap on as an illiterate hillbilly regardless of the fact he has an MBA?...... Gotcha.

So it's ok to treat a guy dressed in pink shirt and skinny jeans with gelled hair like he is gay (oh no!!! :shock:) when maybe all he has is an eclectic taste in fashion?....... Gotcha.

So it's ok to treat a guy with an 18-inch purple mohawk, piercings in his nose, lip and eyebrow, chains hanging off his jeans and two full tattooed sleeves like a brainless punk regardless of the fact that he is working on his doctorate in cancer research?...Gotcha.

So it's ok to treat a leather-clad bearded biker riding a Harley as a Hells Angel thug despite the fact that he is a well-respected lawyer working for the civil liberties of others?.....Gotcha.

So it's ok to treat a guy with purple-black hair, dark eyeshadow, black-painted fingernails like a mindless moron despite the fact that he is a piano prodigy?.......Gotcha.

Yeah, of course women should know better than to dress provocatively so they aren't deemed a 'slut' by moronic little boys who would give anything to get in her pants anyway....... the hypocrisy is mindboggling. :rolleyes:


are you saying that it's wrong for someone to use cultural stereotypes associated with clothing and iconography as a basis for how we immediately view the character of another individual?

i.e. is it wrong for me to see someone covered in patches, chains, piercings and capped with a 3 foot mohawk and assume they're interested in punk culture, despite the fact that punk culture is ironically defined in part by uniform?

you use the word "treat" throughout your examples, but I don't even understand why i'd treat a guy with black eyeliner like he's "braindead" and I don't understand how I'm supposed to treat a guy who looks like a biker, but that doesn't stop the fact that i associate his presentation with that of biker culture. is that wrong?

as your later post seems to suggest, the "slut attire" seems to be a confusing idea, yet the uniforms you posted above seem to be pretty intricately connected with the associated culture, and don't seem to be a fair comparison

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#51 GLASSJAW

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:27 PM

Haha of course someone would want to question the motives of another person. Although I did have in my original post that I do not support the movement, but it is something that I was captivated in attending so as to decide if I would support it or not.


I personally do not want to try to reclaim the word slut. And I don't think Slutwalk Vancouver's mission is that either. To me it seems like Vancouver is solely aiming to end slut-shaming and victim-blaming. They do not tweet or have on facebook, "Let's claim the word slut" Although they are acting in solidarity with Toronto, they do not have the same mission as Toronto, as it is my understanding.


Vancouver is also considering changing the name of Slutwalk Vancouver. Which is something that captivated me to follow. What the organizers think of the name and to learn what direction they want to take.

I support the movement of ending slut-shaming and victim-blaming, but I have never dubbed my support for Slutwalk Vancouver.


Might I suggest... "Feminist Walk"?

I warn you, though, if you take my idea, only about 23 people will show up.

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#52 Harbour04Raven

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 06:16 PM

A Documentary they showed at the Clip-Hop Event.



There is a part two as well.

They also showed a documentary called NO!

The organizers facilitated discussions, below I will post a response to criticisms that were received during discussions.

Edited by Harbour04Raven, 23 May 2012 - 06:47 PM.

Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment. Buddha

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We know that our story has just begun;We know that book of ours never ends;A million of pages front to back;I didn't think anybody would ever get something like that -Luc Bourdon

#53 Harbour04Raven

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 06:38 PM

An organizer of SlutWalk Vancouver posted in response to a criticism of "man-bashing" on facebook.

https://www.facebook...191681940868720

Our slutTALK Clip-Hop on Tuesday night included lots of interesting discussion. There was one criticism offered to SlutWalk Vancouver that calls for some follow-up. Someone commented that events like last year’s march and this year’s Clip-Hop are important, but that they easily turn in to “man-hating” or “man-bashing”. Concern was expressed that, by addressing men as a social group and placing responsibility on them for sexual assault, we could be alienating men from a movement where they have a very important role. It was also expressed that sexual violence isn’t always perpetrated strictly by men against women, so it was suggested we should not be talking about it as such.

An article on Tuesday’s event was published on the Vancouver Observer’s blog about this (not sure if it’s written by the same person who made the comment?). I think this paragraph sums it up nicely:

“Events like SlutTALK are great, but the fact is, they're generally not appealing to the members of society that most desperately need to attend—the men who rape, harrass, batter or otherwise harm women, and the men and women who encourage them, directly or not.”
(Bianca Pencz, The Vancouver Observer, May 16, 2012),
http://www.vancouver...e-talk?page=0,0.

In our defence, our mission statement is pretty clear about the fact that it’s not always “men against women”, and that men have a place in activism against sexual violence and victim-blaming. Here are a few points from the mandate:

SlutWalk recognizes that sexual assault is not something solely done by men to women.
All people, regardless of gender, have a role in challenging victim blaming and sex shaming that create a culture that justifies acts of sexual violence. This event is not just about the violence, but the excuses that allow violence to continue.
Women are most often the targets and men are most often the perpetrators, but all genders are affected. SlutWalk recognizes all gender expressions as those that have been and can be negatively impacted. All genders can be sluts or allies.

You can view our full mission statement on our website:http://slutwalkvanco...walk-vancouver/

We were going to read out our mission statement at the Clip-Hop, but didn’t end up doing so. Perhaps we should have, to avoid any misinterpretation of where we’re coming from.

I’d also like to point out that there were a handful of men in the audience on Tuesday, and that we had some inspiring men involved in SlutWalk Vancouver last year. One of the main organizers who helped start SlutWalk Vancouver was a man, and there were other men on the organizing team as well. We had our Thousand Stories Campaign, a blog which invited people of all genders to share their reasons for marching in SlutWalk. We had a surprising amount of posts from male allies. Some were rape survivors themselves, while others wanted to express their support for the women in their lives who had been raped or who lived with the daily fear of rape. I was surprised by this and by the amount of men who marched last year. They carried signs saying things like “Real men don’t rape”, and the atmosphere was one of solidarity and support. I’ve never been to an event about rape that was so well-attended by men.

Now I’d like to address the comment about how the march last year and some of the film clips we showed this year turned in to “man-hating” or “man-bashing”. To be honest, I don’t really see how asking men not to rape, not to support rape culture, and not to participate in victim-blaming or sex-shaming is “hating” or “bashing” men. As I think another audience member pointed out Tuesday night, feminists work on anti-violence education because we believe in men’s humanity and intelligence – we believe in their ability to change if they are violent, and to demand that other men change, even if they themselves are not violent. If we didn’t believe in this, there wouldn’t be any point in organizing against male violence. I can definitely see how men might feel uncomfortable hearing women talk about men’s violence against women, but it’s imperative that men face up to the challenge if we’re going to see any social change. We at SlutWalk realize that sexual assault sometimes occurs between members of the same sex or gender, and that sometimes women are the perpetrators. However, we know as well that the overwhelming majority of sexual violence involves perpetrators who are men and victims/survivors who are women. If we constantly dance around that fact, we won’t be able to effectively strategize against the rape culture.

As someone who did a brief stint as a rape crisis counsellor-in-training, I know that de-gendering the act of rape can be impossible for the women working the rape crisis lines, who receive call after call from women who have been raped by men. After hundreds of such calls, it’s hard not to address men as a group, to just say, “Please stop.” Even if every individual man is not a rapist, most men don’t seem to be doing anything to stop these rapes.

It’s funny hearing that we’re placing too much responsibility on men when some SlutWalks, such as the original SlutWalk in Toronto, have actually been criticized by some for not holding men accountable enough. At the Women, Action and the Media conference in Vancouver last March, Angela Marie MacDougall (executive director of Battered Women’s Support Services, and a speaker for SlutWalk last year), said that she didn’t see SlutWalk as a feminist movement, albeit an anti-sexual-assault one. To me, this indicates that maybe we weren’t as effective as we could have been in linking rape to gender inequality, which again demands male accountability.

I think if a man feels uncomfortable by discussions about rape, he should ask himself where that discomfort comes from. Does he feel guilty because of his role in rape culture? If so, he should find out how to change his role and help the cause. Guilt isn’t that productive. Action is. Does he feel like he’s being blamed for the actions of other men? If so, he should explore the privilege he has as a male in a sexist world. Even if he doesn’t himself rape women, he probably feels more safe than a woman does in his everyday life. Men aren’t told to stick to well-lit areas, to walk in groups, to watch their drinks, to be careful about every flirtation on a date in case the other person gets the “wrong idea” about what he wants out of it. Many men do not rape but laugh at rape jokes, use pornography that promotes rape, and don’t call their male peers out on their pro-rape behaviour. Whether an individual man is or is not a rapist, he has a responsibility as a part of a group that has been extremely harmful to women to do something, even if it makes him uncomfortable to listen to women talk about rape for two hours.

In the discussion at Clip-Hop, I used the analogy of racism. I as a white person might not like to hear people of colour talk about the damages white people have inflicted on their people. I consider myself an anti-racist person, and I don’t want to be blamed for the actions of other white people. However, whether I like it or not, I am part of an oppressive group, and my whiteness has made me extremely privileged in this racist world. As a carrier of that privilege, and as someone who has probably been racist without even realizing it at times due to that privilege, I feel a strong responsibility to listen to people of colour, and to follow their lead in anti-racist activism. All I ask is for men to do the same in the fight against violence against women.

That being said, the question of how to recruit men in to the anti-rape movement is an important one, with no easy answers. SlutWalk Vancouver would like to see more men involved with our movement and with other feminist efforts as well. It is true that men are the ones who desperately need to attend events like ours, and it’s true that men are still a minority in most anti-rape organizations and in attendance at most anti-rape events. Although men should shoulder most of this responsibility, feminists should indeed be working on strategies for getting men involved. If anyone has any ideas as to how this could happen, please share them.

- Natasha Sanders-Kay, SlutWalk Vancouver

Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment. Buddha

RIP Luc

RIP Rypper

RIP Demitra

We know that our story has just begun;We know that book of ours never ends;A million of pages front to back;I didn't think anybody would ever get something like that -Luc Bourdon

#54 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 07:21 PM

Might I suggest... "Feminist Walk"?

I warn you, though, if you take my idea, only about 23 people will show up.


thats a sad commentary about people's views on feminism .

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#55 Common sense

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 10:54 AM

thats a sad commentary about people's views on feminism .


No...it's the realistic viewpoint on an issue like this. No one cares unless it's sexified or someone gets butthurt.

#56 Harbour04Raven

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 02:03 PM

thats a sad commentary about people's views on feminism .


No...it's the realistic viewpoint on an issue like this. No one cares unless it's sexified or someone gets butthurt.


I guess that can only be proven realistic if a name change is reconsidered and after the "March" on June 30th.

VIA Facebook

Good news! There will be a walk this summer! Plans are underway for a march on Saturday, June 30th. The walk will begin at 2:00pm at the Vancouver Art Gallery. More details to come. If you're interested in joining the organizing team, drop us a line at slutwalkvancouver@gmail.com. We're quite busy preparing for our event at the Wise Hall this weekend, but if you don't hear back right away, someone should get back to you next week. Don't forget to make it out this Saturday, as the conversations at the (un)conference will determine the direction of SlutWalk. Be a part of the conversation!

https://www.facebook...720?ref=tn_tnmn
Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment. Buddha

RIP Luc

RIP Rypper

RIP Demitra

We know that our story has just begun;We know that book of ours never ends;A million of pages front to back;I didn't think anybody would ever get something like that -Luc Bourdon

#57 Shift-4

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 02:04 PM

Slut is a term used by those who don't know how to have a good time and is directed at those that do.
Hockey is the only sport, the rest are just games.

#58 JustJokinen!

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 02:22 PM

Slut is a term used by those who don't know how to have a good time and is directed at those that do.


Which category do you belong to?

#59 Shift-4

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 02:23 PM

Which category do you belong to?



B)
Hockey is the only sport, the rest are just games.




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