A.A.A Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I don't give a rat's ass what the U.S. does to be perfectly frank with their health-care system. Ultimately it's up to them to finally wake-up and join the rest of the civilized world in providing healthcare to its citizenry....something that should be a fundamental right in the wealthiest nation in the history of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 I wholeheartedly and emphatically agree that wait times are a disgrace...even more than a disgrace, they're criminal and sadistic, and that the costs are out of control and inefficiencies are crippling the system as well as our national coffers. I don't have any goal, other than to elect representatives out of the choices available that will address the wait times and care given to the needs of rural and urban areas that is required, all the while looking at efficient expenditures to support and maintain a high level of care and treatment. I don't give a rat's ass what the U.S. does to be perfectly frank with their health-care system. Ultimately it's up to them to finally wake-up and join the rest of the civilized world in providing healthcare to its citizenry....something that should be a fundamental right in the wealthiest nation in the history of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 I agree, our wait times are disgrace and costs are only going to increase with an aging population. But privatizing is not the way to go, as I mentioned before, it is only going to exacerbate the situation. There must be other ways to deal with these concerns, why is it always either public or private healthcare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I agree though I would also agree that (well if politics were not an issue this is a country that is going run itself over a literal financial cliff at the end of the year because of the hyper partisanship of congress) it would be easier to fix the states. 1) Tort reform - Much of the cost of medicine is sucked away by lawyers and insurance against lawyers. Get rid of the ease of suing doctors for anything other than blatant malpractice and bring what settlements are found in the realm of normalness. This will reduce costs dramatically. 2) Provide low or no cost medical insurance to people on the bottom. Ironically they already have a national insurance program only need to figure out what you would charge other people to join it if they wished. But that is them an not us. We will be much more complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazin! Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Another article highlighting the same case.. just provides further details and shows how a private clinic was billing patients AND the provincial government. This clinic basically stole $500 000 from taxpayers, I wonder if any other clinics are involved in this practice, and if so, how much taxpayer money is being wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyfan87 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I'm not really informed on the issue but I'll offer my own personal experience which I'd be interested in people's opinions about. I've played rugby for ten years or so. I broke my nose in 2010 badly, I couldn't breathe through my nose and became a mouth breather. I went to see an Ear, Nose and Throat Specialist who looked inside and gave me a diagnosis. Told me I'd have to have an operation to fix it and that the wait time would be 14 months. I waited a week and it is intolerable to try to breathe mainly through your mouth. Your quality of life is much worse. I wasn't sleeping well. I did some research and checked out the private clinic at false creek. I booked a first appointment to see their Ear, Nose and Throat doctor who also works at St. Pauls and has one of the highest reputations in Western Canada. I was told it would cost 4500 dollars to fix. I agreed to this and had the operation done within a week. IIt went successfully. Could someone please tell me why I shouldn't have been able to do this and save myself 14 unbearable months of poor quality of living? It costs a lot to live in Canada and sometimes I wonder if I should not just move a nice part of the USA considering that when I need the services they aren't there for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyfan87 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I'm just tossing the idea of a split system around in my head and one thing which I don't think is intuitive is the fact that it won't lessen the burden on public hospitals. The staff who work at private clinics don't appear out of thin air. They are highly trained professionals that would otherwise be working in the public sector had private clinics not existed. So yes, these private clinics are allowing people with money to jump ahead of everyone else. It's not a fair system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.A.A Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 You'll have to explain to me how removing people who can afford to go to private clinics from the public queue, would increase wait times and costs. Basic logic would dictate that the fewer people using the public system, the shorter the wait times would be and the lower the cost to the taxpayers would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 While the initial operation or what have you will be faster and eliminate wait times in that regard, what do you think happens if there's a complication post-op? The patient will go to emerg at a public hospital...NOT the private clinic where s/he forked out cash to get it done. Read: http://www.chsrf.ca/...5d0d66b9a0.aspx Signed, Your local health admin student Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 "Allowing people or governments to pay inflated prices will not diminish wait times in the public system. Studies have shown that adding forprofit health care services actually lengthens waiting times in the public system because doctors opt to perform services in the private sector where they are paid more. For example, in New Zealand, where doctors are allowed to work in both public and private sectors, specialists spend less than 49 per cent of their time in public hospitals. The rest is spent in private clinics. Given that Canada is already facing a doctor shortage, allowing physicians and other health care professionals – whose education has been subsidized by taxpayers – to move into the private system will drain much-needed resources and limit public access even further." This is just ONE reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 I'm not really informed on the issue but I'll offer my own personal experience which I'd be interested in people's opinions about. I've played rugby for ten years or so. I broke my nose in 2010 badly, I couldn't breathe through my nose and became a mouth breather. I went to see an Ear, Nose and Throat Specialist who looked inside and gave me a diagnosis. Told me I'd have to have an operation to fix it and that the wait time would be 14 months. I waited a week and it is intolerable to try to breathe mainly through your mouth. Your quality of life is much worse. I wasn't sleeping well. I did some research and checked out the private clinic at false creek. I booked a first appointment to see their Ear, Nose and Throat doctor who also works at St. Pauls and has one of the highest reputations in Western Canada. I was told it would cost 4500 dollars to fix. I agreed to this and had the operation done within a week. IIt went successfully. Could someone please tell me why I shouldn't have been able to do this and save myself 14 unbearable months of poor quality of living? It costs a lot to live in Canada and sometimes I wonder if I should not just move a nice part of the USA considering that when I need the services they aren't there for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 The two tier system in unavoidable , especially with the US system right down the road. If there is no pay service here then just head across the border to get it done right away. To save that, we should keep that option here . I am for universal care, but if providing that access causes the care to be rationed due to budget constraints then everyone's care suffers. : Thus I not only feel its fair to have a pay for service on the side, but it brings down the wait time for those forced to wait in the universal lines. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Horse****. And I don't think we will be more complicated, since we don't have the impenetrable corporate lobbyists to go through as they do down south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 "Allowing people or governments to pay inflated prices will not diminish wait times in the public system. Studies have shown that adding forprofit health care services actually lengthens waiting times in the public system because doctors opt to perform services in the private sector where they are paid more. For example, in New Zealand, where doctors are allowed to work in both public and private sectors, specialists spend less than 49 per cent of their time in public hospitals. The rest is spent in private clinics. Given that Canada is already facing a doctor shortage, allowing physicians and other health care professionals – whose education has been subsidized by taxpayers – to move into the private system will drain much-needed resources and limit public access even further." This is just ONE reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 You don't think the high costs of malpractice insurance due to the extensive amount of high cost litigation in the states impacts costs? If you want to see an American doctor loose his marbles ask how much his malpractice insurance is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 MYTH #4: MALPRACTICE CLAIMS DRIVE UP DOCTORS’ PREMIUMS The “financial crises” medical malpractice insurers claim to go through are actually not as bad as they are portrayed. An analysis by the American Association of Justice of the 200 annual financial statements filed by the 10 largest malpractice insurers found that average profits of these companies are higher than 99 percent of all Fortune 500 companies and 35 times higher than the Fortune 500 average for the same time period. Medical malpractice insurers have underestimated profits and overestimated losses in part to justify new legislation to restrict the rights of those injured by medical negligence. Years later, when companies file revised financial statements, it becomes clear they were never in the financial peril they claimed. A study of the leading medical malpractice insurance companies’ financial statements by former Missouri Insurance Commissioner Jay Angoff found that these insurers artificially raised doctors’ premiums and mislead the public about the nature of medical negligence claims.19 According to the study, the amount the leading malpractice insurers projected they would pay out in claims in the future declined; the amount they actually paid out in claims declined; and their surplus—the extra cushion they have accumulated over and above the amount they have set aside to pay claims in the future—increased to an all-time high—five times the state minimum surplus for insurer stability. http://www.justice.o..._negligence.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazin! Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Either way it's the states and consider the source - it's the trial lawyers of america - aka one of the beneficeries of the sue happy USA. But even in that source it shows the average doctor has to cover 40k in malpractice insurance. That is a very significant cost! But you may have swayed me, after all, we're one court decision from a major overhaul in our coverage. Given the existing laws all we would really need it to allow for private insurance that does cover things that one could get from a regular hospital and we will have a public private system in place nearly overnight. Given that the court case will be based on the fact that with the rediculous wait times in the public sector (despite using BC as an example health care funding doubling over the last decade) it's unfair to deny people private alternatives then we might as well note that it would also be unfair to not allow them to pool their resources together and develope insurance policies that would allow them to more easy access said services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazin! Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I don't see how this creates extra patients, so it would seem to indicate status quo for wait times. How does it increase costs to the public sector? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Health care professionals are a limited resource. If it's spread over both tiers there will be even fewer to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazin! Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 But if the patients can't go to a private clinic, they would be back on the public wait list. It's not like they disappear when the private option is taken away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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