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The Players are being blamed unfairly


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#1 Calicojack

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:06 PM

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I really don't get why anyone who posts in favour of the players gets a ton of negative feedback. Although I think both sides are to blame for this mess, the players seem to be getting the majority of the hate from fans. Am I mistaken, or were the players LOCKED OUT by the owners?

Its almost like some fans feel like they are the ones paying the player's salaries (and yes, indirectly they are) so they get angry when the players fight for a bigger piece of the pie. But its not like we fans are going to be charged less money if the the players make less, the only people who will feel this is the team owners. Us dumb fans are charged the same regardless.

We are doomed to keep reliving these lockouts until the system itself is fixed. The problem is that some teams make tons of money, and some lose tons of money. The only way the league will ever be fair is if the bottom feeding teams are moved or eliminated, there is much more revenue sharing for a healthy league, and there is a solid, reasonable salary cap.
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#2 SterlingArcher

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:15 PM

I blame the fans
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#3 Discord

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:25 PM

i'd love to have a job where i get 50/50 split with the people who employ me
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#4 poetica

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:59 PM

i'd love to have a job where i get 50/50 split with the people who employ me


Get a job where you are the product as well as the employee and you probably would get 50% of some revenue after some costs.
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#5 Cromeslab

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 11:04 PM

Pretty much 50/50 @ this point.we'll see .The media is just dyin to call a winner/loser in this debacle.but ultimately it is us fans that lose.
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#6 Cromeslab

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 11:06 PM

Maybe the media should boycott the league,don't see that happening tho.
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#7 ba;;isticsports

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 11:20 PM

I really don't get why anyone who posts in favour of the players gets a ton of negative feedback. Although I think both sides are to blame for this mess, the players seem to be getting the majority of the hate from fans. Am I mistaken, or were the players LOCKED OUT by the owners?

Its almost like some fans feel like they are the ones paying the player's salaries (and yes, indirectly they are) so they get angry when the players fight for a bigger piece of the pie. But its not like we fans are going to be charged less money if the the players make less, the only people who will feel this is the team owners. Us dumb fans are charged the same regardless.

We are doomed to keep reliving these lockouts until the system itself is fixed. The problem is that some teams make tons of money, and some lose tons of money. The only way the league will ever be fair is if the bottom feeding teams are moved or eliminated, there is much more revenue sharing for a healthy league, and there is a solid, reasonable salary cap.


Who cares at this point?
How does either sides arguement make it better for the fans, who make it possible for either side to profit off of this sport?
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#8 canucklax

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 11:35 PM

Pretty much 50/50 @ this point.we'll see .The media is just dyin to call a winner/loser in this debacle.but ultimately it is us fans that lose.


Not really, its the arena employees, team staff and business owners around arenas that lose. Fans can watch another sport, or another level of hockey, those people are losing their income
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#9 unknown33429

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 11:55 PM

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i'd love to have a job where i get 50/50 split with the people who employ me


I'd love for you to take an economics course and learn something about supply/demand, free markets, leverage, operational leverage, monopoly, elasticity or take a law course and learn about something called collusion, anti-trust behavior, or learn about the difference between negotiating and capitulating, or take a math course and learn about the difference between a million and a billion (hint: it's very large..a billion is a thousand million).

The lack of education shown by so many Canadians on forums is frightening.
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Are you CRAZY??? Trade Green for ONE first round pick?? He's restricted after this season.... He WILL get an offer sheet for 7-8 million from a number of teams regardless if he plays another minute for us or not. That offer sheet would be worth 4 first round draft choices.


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#10 Cromeslab

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 12:32 AM

Not really, its the arena employees, team staff and business owners around arenas that lose. Fans can watch another sport, or another level of hockey, those people are losing their income


Hmm I guess I see your point but if I had a job that was dependant on the NHL ,I would not have any sense of security whatsoever,and as you posted casual fans should not put themselves above the losses of these people.
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#11 canucklax

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 12:45 AM

Hmm I guess I see your point but if I had a job that was dependant on the NHL ,I would not have any sense of security whatsoever,and as you posted casual fans should not put themselves above the losses of these people.


At this point, I'd think that they should feel secure, the NHL gets locked out like clockwork ;)
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#12 SkeeterHansen

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 12:48 AM

At this point, I'd think that they should feel secure, the NHL gets locked out like clockwork ;)


Clockout? :bigblush:
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#13 theminister

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 01:05 AM

Hmm I guess I see your point but if I had a job that was dependant on the NHL ,I would not have any sense of security whatsoever,and as you posted casual fans should not put themselves above the losses of these people.


I am certain that the vast majority of Canucks employees are more disappointed with how the local management has handled the lockout than the NHL Or NHLPA.
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#14 Discord

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 03:25 AM

I'd love for you to take an economics course and learn something about supply/demand, free markets, leverage, operational leverage, monopoly, elasticity or take a law course and learn about something called collusion, anti-trust behavior, or learn about the difference between negotiating and capitulating, or take a math course and learn about the difference between a million and a billion (hint: it's very large..a billion is a thousand million).

The lack of education shown by so many Canadians on forums is frightening.

it really doesn't matter. at the end of the day, all the players whine about how they put their careers on the line every night, yet they demand more than what they're actually worth. look at the guys who play baseball for crying out loud. some unknown dude gets paid 20M a year? does a police officer go out and earn 20M a year? Does a firefighter go out and make 20M a year? I really don't care what any one says here, telling me to go take a course, this and that. I'm just tired of this whole thing and I really don't care if the NHL folds. A hockey player is not worth as much as these people are demanding
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#15 Discord

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 03:44 AM

i want you people to think about this:

Alexander Ovechkin is being paid top dollar, because he WAS one of the most exciting players in the game. Now, he's just a joke-- another whiny player who doesn't get what he wants when the coach calls him out for his BS, because what? he signed a big, fat cheque, you business experts here seem to know all about, and this is what you're paying for? this is what you're defending? i mean, really? you'd go to these lengths to make me look like a jack off? a supposedly talented player who just phones it in most nights?.

it doesn't take a business expert to know, without us fans, there is no NHL. There barely is an NHL, i mean, let's get real folks, this league is a complete joke.
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#16 lorentjd

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 03:45 AM

i'd love to have a job where i get 50/50 split with the people who employ me

No kidding. However, if that happened at the company I work for, the company would go out of business.
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#17 Bodee

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 05:36 AM

I'd love for you to take an economics course and learn something about supply/demand, free markets, leverage, operational leverage, monopoly, elasticity or take a law course and learn about something called collusion, anti-trust behavior, or learn about the difference between negotiating and capitulating, or take a math course and learn about the difference between a million and a billion (hint: it's very large..a billion is a thousand million).

The lack of education shown by so many Canadians on forums is frightening.


The fact that so many even have to, or desire to know so much about all this contract bilge in what is a sport is laughable. Jeez get a life or get the sport sorted out. Its a shambles and the constant losers are the fans.

Come to think of it why are the fans not represented at the table?

I would make them throw the dice on every decision, each time there was a CB to be held. It would probably take 20 mins but hey, the game would go on and some they would win and some they would lose...............just like in life ............or in a hockey game.
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#18 Bodee

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 05:43 AM

it really doesn't matter. at the end of the day, all the players whine about how they put their careers on the line every night, yet they demand more than what they're actually worth. look at the guys who play baseball for crying out loud. some unknown dude gets paid 20M a year? does a police officer go out and earn 20M a year? Does a firefighter go out and make 20M a year? I really don't care what any one says here, telling me to go take a course, this and that. I'm just tired of this whole thing and I really don't care if the NHL folds. A hockey player is not worth as much as these people are demanding


Well said buddy.

Half these people on here have no emotional investment in the game, so they jerk themselves off trying to look smart and educated, talking about garbage that shouldn't even concern a hockey fan. And if they are not doing that they are showing their imagined superiority by trying to belittle the education of others.

Edited by Bodee, 22 December 2012 - 05:43 AM.

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#19 pimpcurtly

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:17 AM

it really doesn't matter. at the end of the day, all the players whine about how they put their careers on the line every night, yet they demand more than what they're actually worth. look at the guys who play baseball for crying out loud. some unknown dude gets paid 20M a year? does a police officer go out and earn 20M a year? Does a firefighter go out and make 20M a year? I really don't care what any one says here, telling me to go take a course, this and that. I'm just tired of this whole thing and I really don't care if the NHL folds. A hockey player is not worth as much as these people are demanding


So the majority of the money earned should be lining the pockets of the greedy owners? I (used to) pay to see the best hockey players in the world, not make billionaires even more richer. Doesn't really matter anymore, though, because the NHL won't get another dime from me.
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#20 Dittohead

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:45 AM

Not too many business models work when the employees take 50% or more of the revenue.
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#21 Heretic

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:52 AM

I have no sympathy for them when they are considering suing their employers - then what? Expect their jobs back and everything is hunky dory?
Welcome to the real world, where if you don't like something about your employer you go somewhere else.
Yes, both sides are to blame - but the NHLPA and players are worse...
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#22 Bill Sikes

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:44 AM

I have no sympathy for them when they are considering suing their employers - then what? Expect their jobs back and everything is hunky dory?
Welcome to the real world, where if you don't like something about your employer you go somewhere else.
Yes, both sides are to blame - but the NHLPA and players are worse...

Anyone home McFly?

The owners freely OFFER these contracts, then whine about them and don't want to pay them. I guess don't spend money you don't have is too difficult a concept to grasp. They spend hundreds of millions to keep teams in unprofitable locations then expect the players to pay for their idiotic business decisions, even going so far as to spend over $100 million to buy a team and keep it OUT of a profitable location, then run an extortion racket to keep it in an unprofitable location. How many players have been jailed for FRAUD as opposed to owners? The players are not entirely guiltless, but the owners are pure unrefined EVIL.

Edited by Norman Clegg, 22 December 2012 - 10:45 AM.

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#23 Scoobydooby

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:52 AM

I have no sympathy for them when they are considering suing their employers - then what? Expect their jobs back and everything is hunky dory?
Welcome to the real world, where if you don't like something about your employer you go somewhere else.
Yes, both sides are to blame - but the NHLPA and players are worse...


Why are they worse? Since when is it the players fault that owners offer players the deals they sign? You mean to tell me that if you're an upper caliber nhl player and stand to be signed to a long term multi-million dollar deal provided to you by the owner and management of the club that you're not going to sign?
And why shouldnt they sue their employers? Their employers have not for a minute negotiated with them with any semblance of fairness . Their mandate all along has been to break the union and take away as much as possible all so that the nhl fan try to fix all of the mistakes that THEY have made.. I am not impressed at all with the union, don't get me wrong, but the league deserves to be held accountable for the state of all this as well and they would rather just ignore all the facts of this stupid scenario and blame and strongarm the players instead.

Please explain to us how the players are worse and how that is not an outcome that was brought upon by the league.

Edited by Scoobydooby, 22 December 2012 - 10:53 AM.

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#24 Primal Optimist

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:17 AM

At this point, I am ready to pay some attention to replacement players. Voting in favour of decertifying the union was the last straw for me as a fan. I am sort of in favour of union solidarity..but now that that doesn't seem to be working out so good in the fight to keep the average salary at 2.4million a year they are willing to cancel the union to force the league to honor the 2.4million average this year? Come on...

Bring on repacement players that will be happy to be there for a million a year each and lets get on with sports, we are all turning into accountants and lawyers here....where once we were happy to just be fans.
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#25 Primal Optimist

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:20 AM

I'd love for you to take an economics course and learn something about supply/demand, free markets, leverage, operational leverage, monopoly, elasticity or take a law course and learn about something called collusion, anti-trust behavior, or learn about the difference between negotiating and capitulating, or take a math course and learn about the difference between a million and a billion (hint: it's very large..a billion is a thousand million).

The lack of education shown by so many Canadians on forums is frightening.

And this post is evidence that you have completey lost sight of the fact that the only thing we all have in common on this Canucks Forum is we are fans of the sport of hockey. That is it. Just fans that want to watch NHL games. We don't need to know that BS to be fans of hockey, we just need to have hockey to watch.
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#26 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:26 AM

The players knew what they were doing when they hired Fehr.

Sure, it's technically a lockout, but the details on what and who is actually causing it are cloudy at best.

No matter. My reaction remains the same. Not a penny of mine goes to the NHL for the foreseeable future.
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#27 Baggins

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 03:05 PM

I really don't get why anyone who posts in favour of the players gets a ton of negative feedback. Although I think both sides are to blame for this mess, the players seem to be getting the majority of the hate from fans. Am I mistaken, or were the players LOCKED OUT by the owners?

Its almost like some fans feel like they are the ones paying the player's salaries (and yes, indirectly they are) so they get angry when the players fight for a bigger piece of the pie. But its not like we fans are going to be charged less money if the the players make less, the only people who will feel this is the team owners. Us dumb fans are charged the same regardless.

We are doomed to keep reliving these lockouts until the system itself is fixed. The problem is that some teams make tons of money, and some lose tons of money. The only way the league will ever be fair is if the bottom feeding teams are moved or eliminated, there is much more revenue sharing for a healthy league, and there is a solid, reasonable salary cap.


That's why there is a lockout. They are trying to fix the cap loopholes and ensure all the teams can survive.

Ask the players if they want 10 teams eliminated. That's more than player 250 jobs gone. If they want to keep those jobs they have to do their part to help those teams survive. The players are cutting off their nose to spite their face. We don't want to take less of the money but we don't want to lose those jobs either. You can't have both.
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#28 Boudrias

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 03:31 PM

I didn't see Parise, Sutter, Weber, Doan etc., etc. not play the market to get the best deal they could get. Great for them. The previous CBA was done and honoured by both parties. The only problem I had with ownership in the current negociations was trying to role back existing contracts and only pay a portion of what was due. No good by me, a deal is a deal.

in the current round I also don't have a problem with the owners trying to shave their cost by paying less to players (outside existing contracts) and restricting player movement and contract lengths to cut cost and retain competitive play. If it takes until next year that is the way it goes.
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#29 Heretic

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 03:31 PM

Why are they worse? Since when is it the players fault that owners offer players the deals they sign? You mean to tell me that if you're an upper caliber nhl player and stand to be signed to a long term multi-million dollar deal provided to you by the owner and management of the club that you're not going to sign?
And why shouldnt they sue their employers? Their employers have not for a minute negotiated with them with any semblance of fairness . Their mandate all along has been to break the union and take away as much as possible all so that the nhl fan try to fix all of the mistakes that THEY have made.. I am not impressed at all with the union, don't get me wrong, but the league deserves to be held accountable for the state of all this as well and they would rather just ignore all the facts of this stupid scenario and blame and strongarm the players instead.

Please explain to us how the players are worse and how that is not an outcome that was brought upon by the league.


Easy. How many players are dedicated to their team?

How many players care more about long term contracts and free agency?

Sorry - the players and their agents force their demands (for money) on the owners, else they say fine, I'll go to another team. (hence the lack of team spirit and the all about me attitude). It's been that way since the early 90's.

Take off your rose coloured glasses.

That's why I support the team, and not the player.

If I threaten to sue my employer - guess what? I'll never be able to work there again - or wouldn't want to as they would make my life miserable.

Wrong about the owners - they have bargained and made concessions, and they said like what - a year ago that they won't start the season unless there was a CBA in place. Why did the stupid union wait so long to start meeting? Why didn't the players force the union?

Don't get me wrong, the owners are just as much to blame, but please don't make the players look like angels. They will jump whomever gives them the most money. Very rare to see a player play his entire career with one team.

The players have been like this since the early 90's. It's the main reason I don't have a jersey with a players name on it - I cheer for the Canucks, not a player. Players disappoint - you see it...as soon as they get a contract, they start floating out there. Name me one player who gives it 100% every shift for the entire season? Crosby comes close, but even he has floated sometimes...
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#30 Brambojoe

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 03:42 PM

The current crop of NHL players ARE the league, not the arenas, not the jerseys, the simple fact that they are the premier players in the world.

You could have an a recognizable NHL with 30 different arenas (preferably less) and 30 different owners. You could not have a NHL without most of the same players not within a decade.

Given that basic fact I think that 50% is a steal.

Even more laughable when you consider how many of the arenas were heavily subsidized in their construction. Tell me again what is so special and unique that the current 30 owners bring to the party? Some smart lawyers and deep pockets....good for them.
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