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King of the ES

Multiple Warning Signs Surrounding Zack Kassian

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Now that Kassian's essentially played the same amount of games in the AHL this season as he did last, I thought I'd have a look at the numbers to see how exactly he's "developing" (generous term).

WARNING: this ain't pretty

2011-12: 30 GP, 15 G, 26 P, +4, 94 SOG, 31 PIM

2012-13: 28 GP, 6 G, 18 P, -1, 72 SOG, 59 PIM

By my calculations, this amounts to the following data comparatives:

  • 60% year-over-year reduction in goals
  • 31% year-over-year reduction in points
  • 18% year-over-year reduction in SOG/game
  • 90% year-over-year increase in PIMs.

And, to be honest, the two things that are of the most concern to me are the decline in SOG and the increase in PIM. There's really no explanation for getting less SOG as a 22 year-old AHL sophomore than as a 21 year-old AHL rookie. And this SOG figure is even inflated, as Kass did have 7 SOG last game, bringing up his average significantly.

And while it's nice that he does seem willing to throw the body, at times, and drop the gloves, at times, I really hope that we didn't trade Cody Hodgson for a bottom-six goon that will be lucky to get 5 - 10 goals per year in limited minutes. I'm beginning to wonder if Kassian has a bit of "Kyle Beach" in him; capable of so much, too stupid to realize it and in the penalty box way, way too much.

Let's not forget that Kassian was hand held by the Sedin's in the off-season to try and get his training habits in shape (not a good sign), and even went on to be a healthy scratch in 1 (or more, I'm not sure) game, also (clearly) not a good sign.

Who else is concerned?

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It's hard to judge our prospects when our developmental process sucks. And currently our AHL team sucks and the coach is more questionable than AV with some of the decisions he makes.

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You know there is more to a players game than stats right?

Have you even watched Kassian play a game this year?

And by the by, he is tied for the team lead in scoring, it's not entirely his fault the Wolves aren't generating offence (Looking at you Arniel).

And to use the fact that he looked to the Sedins for training advice as a bad thing is laughable.

"Oh no, he wanted advice from two fitness nuts to help him in his training, what a bust :frantic: "

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stop posting with your negative threads............please burn your canucks jersery and go join the flames fan club

If you want him to stop posting negative threads then joining the Flames fan club will only make it worse :P

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Also:

Cody Hodgsons 08/09 season and his 09/10 season with Brampton in the OHL.

1.74 P/G --> 1.54 P/G

.81 G/G --> .62 G/G

.622PIM/G --> .692 PIM/G

So by your logic having a decline in that year would have automatically meant that Hodgson was going to be a bust too. Good on MG trading him away for anything at all!

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You know there is more to a players game than stats right?

Have you even watched Kassian play a game this year?

And by the by, he is tied for the team lead in scoring, it's not entirely his fault the Wolves aren't generating offence (Looking at you Arniel).

"Watch him play" - fine, but the numbers don't lie. The numbers are what's honest, free of the confirmation bias that so many Canuck fans suffer from - seeing only what you want to see, rather than reality. The guy's numbers are down, pretty substantially, and it's worth discussing. One of the reasons why Gillis went on to explain why he loved him so much was his AHL production, to which I agreed. 15 goals and 26 points in 30 games is impressive - the AHL is no joke. But he has regressed this year, thus far, and, to me, that's a red flag.

And let's cut the bashing on Arneil. Nobody questioned his ability to coach when he was developing Schneider, Edler, Raymond, Grabner, Rypien, Bourdon, Hodgson, etc., etc.

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While it's funny that this comes right after his 7sog game, couldn't this stupid crap be shoved in the Kassian thread?

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Not going to lie, you make some good realistic points sometimes, but you go soooo overboard on trying to justify them, and never give any sort of credit where credit is due.

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Also:

Cody Hodgsons 08/09 season and his 09/10 season with Brampton in the OHL.

1.74 P/G --> 1.54 P/G

.81 G/G --> .62 G/G

.622PIM/G --> .692 PIM/G

So by your logic having a decline in that year would have automatically meant that Hodgson was going to be a bust too. Good on MG trading him away for anything at all!

Nice try. Cody played 13 games in 2009-10. Not exactly a reliable sample size, let alone considering the fact that he was playing with a busted-up back that was misdiagnosed by your Vancouver Canucks.

Cody's AHL production this year, thus far, by the way, is far higher than what it was in 2010-11.

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Nice try. Cody played 13 games in 2009-10. Not exactly a reliable sample size, let alone considering the fact that he was playing with a busted-up back that was misdiagnosed by your Vancouver Canucks.

Cody's AHL production this year, thus far, by the way, is far higher than what it was in 2010-11.

But he's only played 16 games games this year, not exactly a reliable sample size.

And after 2 seasons, I should hope that he does better in the AHL.

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I don't like how Schroeder is getting all the heat, when Kassian isn't playing much better, so i agree that Kassian does deserve the heat. Especially when Archibald is almost has the same amount of goal totals in half the games now. Kassian has shown glimpse of brilliance but continuously need to work on consistency. Obviously you become worried when Buffalo's stars are putting top notch numbers in the AHL but it's not Hodgson that you look at but Foligno, who has progressed rapidly that allowed Buffalo to trade Kassian to begin with. Anyways.....

Discipline isn't a concern with Kassian, so i don't see why you point that out but I'm worried that perhaps you want him to be less disciplined for him to turn into the monster he needs to be. He was a complete goon in the junior, and that's the way ....admitted not a fan of saying this, but that's the way you kind of want him to play. Ever since the incident in junior, he hasn't been the same physical monster.

Regardless, with the potential of the Canucks losing Edler next season and the lack of anything physical on the current team. I've accepted that we need Kassian over Hodgson.

BTW - Face the facts that this Canuck team isn't willing to play smart hockey and stay away from scrums. Like, literally skate away. Gilliis noticed this, and has started to try to fill the cupboard with more physical players. It was what had to be done.

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But he's only played 16 games games this year, not exactly a reliable sample size.

Right, that's why I prefaced it with "thus far".

And BTW, meant to talk about your Sedin/workout point. It's a warning sign because it was the Sedin's who went to management and said that they wanted to work with Kassian directly. One might hope/want to see a guy like Kassian being more proactive in doing something like that, rather than have the most established guys on the team, who are in their 30s, have families, etc., put forth the effort to try and work with him.

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Quite hard to argue with the numbers, King. I mean, there is no room for assumptions that kassian's number declined. I have the exact concerns as you do.

But since I'm trying to be positive this new year, I''ll hang this on the coach.........for now.

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This thread is really about Cody. And Cody's skill level wouldn't be my concern as much as his injuries are. If he continues getting hurt all the time, does it really matter how good he is?

Kassian is probably the guy on the Wolves i am least concerned with.

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And BTW, meant to talk about your Sedin/workout point. It's a warning sign because it was the Sedin's who went to management and said that they wanted to work with Kassian directly. One might hope/want to see a guy like Kassian being more proactive in doing something like that, rather than have the most established guys on the team, who are in their 30s, have families, etc., put forth the effort to try and work with him.

From this summer:

Kassian has put in serious work this summer to get in terrific shape. He put in work with top trainers at the Nike Headquarters in Oregon back in July along with a few other prospects, including Kevin Connauton and Jordan Schroeder. Kassian trained and spent some time with the Sedin twins and Manny Malhotra in April and May of 2012, as well.

Kassian has trimmed about 15 pounds off of his frame this summer. Fear not, though, as he still tips the scales at close to 215 pounds (regardless of what he is listed at on various sites, Kassian played at close to 230 pounds last year).

I'm in no way concerned about the fitness efforts of a guy who can put in enough work to trim off 15 pounds in one summer.

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